Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) I'm opening this topic for two reasons. Firstly as an example of how a new civilization/faction is made from its concept. The second point is the facet of the title to be dealt with, we who are outside the internal forum of the team assume that there must be in private, forgotten somewhere, the topic of the Numidian faction. ------------------------------------------------------- Quote ----Spanish Disclaimer----- Estoy abriendo este tópico por dos razones. Primeramente como ejemplo de como se hace una civilizacion/faction nueva desde su conceptulización. el segundo punto es la faccion del titulo a tratar, nosotros que estamos fuera del foro interno del equipo asumimos que debe haber en privado, olvidado en algún lado, el tópico de la facción Númida -----French Disclaimer-------- J'ouvre ce sujet pour deux raisons. D'abord comme exemple de la façon dont une nouvelle civilisation/faction est faite à partir de son concept. Le deuxième point est la facette du titre à traiter, nous qui sommes en dehors du forum interne de l'équipe supposons qu'il doit y avoir en privé, quelque part oublié, le sujet de la faction du Numides. ----------Portuguese Disclaimer---------- Estou a abrir este tópico por duas razões. Primeiro como um exemplo de como uma nova civilização/fação é feita a partir do seu conceito. O segundo ponto é a faceta do título a ser tratado, nós que estamos fora do fórum interno da equipe assumimos que deve haver em particular, esquecido em algum lugar, o tema da facção do Numidia. Numidia, under the Roman Republic and Empire, a part of Africa north of the Sahara, the boundaries of which at times corresponded roughly to those of modern western Tunisia and eastern Algeria. Its earliest inhabitants were divided into tribes and clans. They were physically indistinguishable from the other indigenous inhabitants of early North Africa and, at the end of the Roman Empire, were often categorized as Berbers. From the 6th century BCE points along the coast were occupied by the Carthaginians, who by the 3rd century BCE had expanded into the interior as far as Theveste (Tébessa). Numidian cavalry was frequently found in the Carthaginian armies by that time. The inhabitants remained seminomadic until the reign of Masinissa, the chief of the Massaesyli tribe, which lived near Cirta (Constantine). During the Second Punic War, he was initially an ally of Carthage, but he went over to the Roman side in 206 BCE and was given further territory, extending as far as the Mulucha (Moulouya) River. The Romans under Scipio Africanus and Numidians under Masinissa burned the camp of the rival Numidian chief Syphax near Utica and then overwhelmed Syphax and his Carthaginian allies at the Battle of Bagrades in 203 BCE. Syphax had been wooed by Rome, but his allegiance to Carthage was cemented when he married Sophonisba, the daughter of the Carthaginian commander Hasdrubal. Syphax was captured and exiled to Rome, where he died at Tibur (modern Tivoli). Masinissa wished to claim Sophonisba as a wife, but when Scipio demanded that she go to Rome as a captive, Masinissa gave her poison so that she might escape the fate of a prisoner. (That tragic event was often depicted in later Western paintings.) Numidian horsemanship, animal breeding, and cavalry tactics eventually contributed to later developments in Roman cavalry. In his history of Rome, Polybius underscores how important those cavalry advantages were to the outcome of the Second Punic War. Numidian superiority was demonstrated by the cavalry leadership of Maharbal under Hannibal at Trasimene and Cannae and later by Masinissa at Zama under Scipio Africanus. For nearly 50 years Masinissa retained the support of Rome as he tried to turn the Numidian pastoralists into peasant farmers. He also seized much Carthaginian territory and probably hoped to rule all of North Africa. On Masinissa’s death in 148 BCE, the Romans prudently divided his kingdom among several chieftains, but the progress of civilization among the Numidians was not seriously interrupted, and, indeed, after 146 BCE it received new impetus as thousands of Carthaginians fled to Numidia after the destruction of Carthage. In 118 Jugurtha, an illegitimate Numidian prince, usurped the throne and forcibly reunified Numidia until the Romans again took control in 105. Rome continued to dominate Numidia through client kings, though Numidian territory was considerably reduced. The third and final attempt by a Numidian to found a powerful state was that of Juba I, between 49 and 46 BCE, ending with his defeat by Julius Caesar at Thapsus. Caesar formed a new province, Africa Nova, from Numidian territory, and Augustus united Africa Nova (“New Africa”) with Africa Vetus (“Old Africa,” the province surrounding Carthage), but a separate province of Numidia was formally created by Septimius Severus. The Roman army’s Third Legion took up its permanent station at Lambaesis (Lambessa), and, as a result of the increased security, the Numidians’ population and prosperity increased substantially during the first two centuries CE. A few native communities achieved municipal status, but the majority of the population was little touched by Roman civilization. Christianity spread rapidly in the 3rd century CE, but in the 4th century Numidia became the centre of the Donatist movement. That schismatic Christian group was particularly strong among the Numidian peasantry, to whom it appealed as a focus of protest against deteriorating social conditions. After the Vandal conquest (429 CE), Roman civilization declined rapidly in Numidia, and the native elements revived to outlive in some places even the Arab conquest in the 8th century and to persist until modern times. https://www.britannica.com/place/Numidia Edited January 14, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen Updating 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 I haven't read through it myself yet, but seems an interesting start: https://www.academia.edu/5345062/Monumental_Power_Numidian_Royal_Architecture_in_Context_in_Prag_and_Quinn_The_Hellenistic_West_2013_179-215_?auto=download 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
av93 Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Didn't Garamantes seemed more singular? (Chariots) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Garamantes would be awesome. Personally, I know next to nothing about Numidian domestic architecture... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) @Duileoga aqui esta. primer paso es crear un tópico. segundo paso. la información básica y resumida. ¿Quienes eran? sus origenes. ¿Donde habitaban? Historia resumida. Imagenes ulturales segunda etapa hacer documento de diseño.ejemplo Bonus de Facción Bonus en equipo. empiezas por las unidades de infanteria básica. la lanza Arquitectura y edificios. Heroes Maravilla Edificios especiales. o culturales. nombres de sus lideres para uso de las Ai. simbolos de faccion : (escudos, monedas, simbolos religiosos, ornamentación, cualquier cosa circular) Extras. Monumentos que son estatuas y ornamentación(en caso de aplicar) mercenarios y vasallos. (los vasallos son en caso de estar muy desbalanceados) unidades especiales mapas biomas del mapa. reliquias en los mapas pueden haber ruinas de civilizaciones anteriores(cosas extra) y otras cosas para los mapas. Dentro de las unidades estan. cascos. armas. escudos. simbolos monumentos @Duileoga empiezas con lo básico. luego vas a fuentes muy academicas para encontrar fuentes primarias, para saber el sustento de cada cosa. No nos gustan los anacronismos ni las unidades sin datos historicos precisos. o cliches de Hollywood. etc. por eso necesitamos fuentes de primera mano. como datos arqueologicos. por ejemplo con su fuente en caso de sitio web. luego información más relevante y profunda. Edited January 14, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sundiata said: Garamantes would be awesome. Personally, I know next to nothing about Numidian domestic architecture... yes because the rest is some kind Hellenistic. I found some images, we can make a deep looking later, this step is the early approach of the faction. more like a brainstorming of the idea from this faction. this from a slideshare. later I gonna find where this images come from. are rare tombs, mausoleums... KHRQUB https://es.slideshare.net/josueramosmartin/ramos-martn-las-monarquas-indgenas-norteafricanas-clase-24-nov-09-parte-2 "Monarchies natives north africans." now more deeply info about previous. Quote Chemtou or Chimtou was an ancient Roman-Berber town in northwestern Tunisia, located 20 km from the city of Jendouba near the Algerian frontier. It was known as Simitthu (or Simitthus in Roman period) in antiquity. Jebel Chemtou. Quote It lies at the crossroad of two major highways: the one that connects Carthage and Hippo Regius (today Annaba), and the one that connects Thabraca (today Tabarka) and Sicca (today El Kef). The town is known for its quarries, where one of the most precious types of marbles in the Roman Empire, the antique yellow marble (marmor numidicum or giallo antico), was exploited. With Chemtou's ruins dating from over a period of 1,500 years, the site covers over 80 hectares of area pending further excavations. After being partially excavated in the late 19th century, a series of excavations carried out since the late 1960s by a Tunisian-German archaeological team has uncovered new parts of the city, as well as the Roman road connecting it to Thabraca for the purpose of transporting marbles to the Mediterranean Sea. The excavated ruins are typical of Roman cities with temples, baths, an aqueduct, an amphitheatre, and housing for quarry workers whose number may exceed a thousand. The Chemtou Museum displays artifacts discovered in the area. Quote On the summit of the Temple Mount / Djebel Chimtou is a Numidian Shrine, which is attributed to the Numidian King Micipsa. Whose father Massinissa, who had been an Allied Roman since the Second Punic War, had seized power over the upper Medjerda valley in 152 BC. After his death, his son and successor, Micipsa, founded a ten-meter monumental monument on the highest point of the mountain in the late 2nd century BC. The marble was used as a building material, which at the same time meant the discovery of the "marmor numidicum". The ground plan of the sanctuary is a rectangle of about twelve to five and a half meters in length and width. It was erected on the planted rocky base, the crevices and bumps of which had been closed with strings . The building consisted of solid marble squares, connected with dowels, and had no interior. Only a few blocks of the foundations have been preserved in situ .[1] The monument consisted of a high substructure, which was orientated towards the east to the rising sun. On its east long side a shining door was attached, which was led by a three-step base. On the substructure was a second storey, which was designed as a Doric column pavilion. The building was decorated with rich decorations, including a trophy relief . The fragments of the building decoration are among the most valuable examples of the very rarely preserved Numidian royal architecture and can be visited today in the Chimtou Museum to reconstruct the sanctuary.[2] In Roman times, the Shrine was used as a sacred temple dedicated to the god Saturn . It was expanded in the late 2nd century AD by various additions. In the 4th century AD it was finally replaced by a small, three-aisled church, using the quader and architectural parts of the destroyed sanctuary more architecture. reconstruction of Numidian temple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtou _____ I have an idea for bonus, you remembers berebers in AoE II HD African kingdoms? but it will need programming(coding) for team Bonus Your allies can access to Numidian cavalry (Skirmish). Edited January 14, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Quote Numidia was a large open area of northern Africa home to many tribal groups. In a wide and dry place, the Numidians relied on horses to get around and horsemanship was as natural to Numidians as walking. As mentioned, control over one’s horse was a key trait not to be undervalued, and the Numidians may have been the most naturally talented riders in the Mediterranean. Rather than using reins or saddles, Numidians went into battle bareback and used a braided rope wrapped snug around the neck of their mount for control. They also seemed to use their voice quite effectively for additional control. Numidian cavalry saw their best and most documented moments as mercenaries and allies during the Second Punic War, chiefly being employed by Hannibal. Wearing just light tunics and armed with simple throwing and thrusting javelins, the Numidians were as light as cavalry could be yet time and again they were tasked with heavy assignments and completed them with flying colors. At Cannae, it was the lesser numbered Numidians who held the Roman’s left cavalry flank while Hannibal’s double-sized left cavalry overpowered the Romans and came in for an encirclement. Light cavalry is almost never tasked with holding ground but they did so during some of the most crucial maneuvers of Hannibal’s campaign. The Numidians served with distinction against Hannibal as well. When Scipio gained their allegiance they sent aid to his army prior to the battle of Zama. After putting Hannibal’s cavalry to flight, the Numidians showed exceptional discipline by not over pursuing, not raiding the enemy camp, but by turning and charging the rear of Hannibal’s infantry to turn the tides of a battle that could have gone in either direction. Such discipline was exceptionally rare in tribally organized cavalry. The Numidians defied stereotypes by being the lightest of the cavalry able to hold down the toughest of battlefield assignments and showed levels of discipline only seen in hardened professional armies. more strong skirmish cavalry? more HP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Quote Before the kingdom of Numidia was founded its people were divided in two Berber tribes – the Massylii and the Masaesyli. Both groups were skilled warriors, who regularly settled tribal and inter-tribal rivalries through combat. However, the Massylii also had strong relations with Carthage, which is one of the main reasons why the Masaesyli may wish to align themselves with Rome should the opportunity arise. With the right allies, a Masaesyli king could transform his fledgling kingdom into a prospering African power of some note.On the other hand, as a powerful, warlike tribe, the Masaesyli are now faced with the opportunity to forge their own destiny, free from interference by the regional superpowers. They might seek to unite with their western cousins – the Gaetulians – peacefully or through other means, and an expansion to the eastern province of Phazania is also on the cards. Whichever route they choose, the Masaesyli's chief desire is the union of all the Berber peoples, so that they might build a fortress-nation of fertile north Africa. I love these very open introduction description from TW honga page. https://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/faction.php?l=en&v=rome2&f=rom_masaesyli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 15 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: Remember that these are North African Berbers/proto-Berbers, not Sub Saharan Africans. They would have looked tanned, but not quite like that These guys look a little more realistic: Numidians from Trajan's column : Also, unit diversity is probably going to be a bit of an issue... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 i like this, possiblilty to have more strong Numidian Skirmish I mean , heavy skirmisher? or is only a commander? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: heavy skirmisher? or is only a commander? Veteran from the Punic Wars? I really like the Chemtou temple by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 The Origins. Numidians : before 0 A.D (Terra magna mod) timeframe. Quote Algeria was the site of the highest state of development of Middle Paleolithic Flake tool techniques.[18] Tools of this era, starting about 30,000 BC, are called Aterian (after the archeological site of Bir el Ater, south of Tebessa). The earliest blade industries in North Africa are called Iberomaurusian (located mainly in the Oran region). This industry appears to have spread throughout the coastal regions of the Maghreb between 15,000 and 10,000 BC. Neolithic civilization (animal domestication and agriculture) developed in the Saharan and Mediterranean Maghreb perhaps as early as 11,000 BC[19] or as late as between 6000 and 2000 BC. This life, richly depicted in the Tassili n'Ajjer paintings, predominated in Algeria until the classical period. The mixture of peoples of North Africa coalesced eventually into a distinct native population that came to be called Berbers, who are the indigenous peoples of northern Africa. As Carthaginian power grew, its impact on the indigenous population increased dramatically. Berber civilization was already at a stage in which agriculture, manufacturing, trade, and political organization supported several states. Trade links between Carthage and the Berbers in the interior grew, but territorial expansion also resulted in the enslavement or military recruitment of some Berbers and in the extraction of tribute from others Carthege increases the quality of life of the region. that's why they are some kind of Hellenization(?). Quote Rise of power. Trade links between Carthage and the Berbers in the interior grew, but territorial expansion also resulted in the enslavement or military recruitment of some Berbers and in the extraction of tribute from others. By the early 4th century BC, Berbers formed the single largest element of the Carthaginian army. In the Revolt of the Mercenaries, Berber soldiers rebelled from 241 to 238 BC after being unpaid following the defeat of Carthage in the First Punic War.[21] They succeeded in obtaining control of much of Carthage's North African territory, and they minted coins bearing the name Libyan, used in Greek to describe natives of North Africa. The Carthaginian state declined because of successive defeats by the Romans in the Punic Wars.[22] In 146 BC the city of Carthage was destroyed. As Carthaginian power waned, the influence of Berber leaders in the hinterland grew. By the 2nd century BC, several large but loosely administered Berber kingdoms had emerged. Two of them were established in Numidia, behind the coastal areas controlled by Carthage. West of Numidia lay Mauretania, which extended across the Moulouya River in modern-day Morocco to the Atlantic Ocean. The high point of Berber civilization, unequaled until the coming of the Almohads and Almoravids more than a millennium later, was reached during the reign of Masinissa in the 2nd century BC. @Sundiata we must add Mauretania to these faction? ______________________________________________________ Who are Berbers? Quote Berbers call themselves some variant of the word i-Mazigh-en (singular: a-Mazigh), possibly meaning "free people" or "noble men".[33] The name probably had its ancient parallel in the Roman and Greek names for Berbers such as Mazices.[35] According to Ibn Khaldun, the name Mazîgh is derived from one of the early ancestors of the Berbers, based on one opinion. The term Berber is a variation of the Greek original word barbaros ("barbarian"), earlier in history applied by Romans specifically to their northern hostile neighbours from Germania (modern Germany) and Celts, Iberians, Gauls, Goths and Thracians. Among its oldest written attestations, Berber appears as an ethnonym in the 1st century AD Periplus of the Erythraean Sea.[37] Despite these early manuscripts, certain modern scholars have argued that the term only emerged around 900 AD in the writings of Arab genealogists,[38] with Maurice Lenoir positing an 8th or 9th-century date of appearance.[39] The English term was introduced in the 19th century, replacing the earlier Barbary. For the historian Abraham Isaac Laredo[40] the name Amazigh could be derived from the name of the ancestor Mezeg which is the translation of biblical ancestor Dedan son of Sheba in the Targum. According to Leo Africanus, Amazigh meant "free man", some argued that there is no root of M-Z-Ɣ meaning "free" in modern Berber languages. However, mmuzeɣ "to be noble, generous" exist among the Imazighen of Central Morocco and tmuzeɣ "to free oneself, revolt" among the Kabyles of Ouadhia.[41] This dispute, however, is based on a lack of understanding of the Berber language as "Am-" is a prefix meaning "a man, one who is […]" Therefore, the root required to verify this endonym would be (a)zigh, "free", which however is also missing from Tamazight's lexicon, but may be related to the well-attested aze "strong", Tizzit "bravery", or jeghegh "to be brave, to be courageous".[42][original research?] Further, it also has a cognate in the Tuareg word Amajegh, meaning "noble".[43][44] This term is common in Morocco, especially among Central Atlas, Rifian and Shilah speakers in 1980,[45] but elsewhere within the Berber homeland sometimes a local, more particular term, such as Kabyle or Chaoui, is more often used instead in Algeria.[46] The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and Byzantines mentioned various tribes with similar names living in Greater "Libya" (North Africa) in the areas where Berbers were later found. Later tribal names differ from the classical sources, but are probably still related to the modern Amazigh. The Meshwesh tribe among them represents the first thus identified from the field. Scholars believe it would be the same tribe called a few centuries afterwards in Greek as Mazyes by Hektaios and as Maxyes by Herodotus, while it was called after that Mazaces and Mazax in Latin sources, and related to the later Massylii and Masaesyli. Late Antiquity Roman and Coptic sources also mention that Mazices (ⲙⲁⲥⲓⲅⲝ in Coptic)[47] conducted multiple raids against Egypt.[48] all those names are similar and perhaps foreign renditions of the name used by the Berbers in general for themselves, Imazighen. Spoiler An Egyptian statuette representing a Libyan Libu Berber. Reign of Rameses II (19th Dynasty), 1279–1213 BCE. (Louvre Museum, Paris) Spoiler Hoggar painting, Tassili n'Ajjer Quote In historical times, the Berbers expanded south into the Sahara (displacing earlier populations such as the Azer and Bafour). Much of Berber culture is still celebrated among the cultural elite in Morocco and Algeria. The areas of North Africa that have retained the Berber language and traditions best have been, in general, Morocco and the Hautes Plaines of Algeria (Kabylie, Aurès etc.), most of which in Roman and Ottoman times had remained largely independent. The Ottomans did penetrate the Kabylie area, and to places the Phoenicians never penetrated, far beyond the coast, where Ottoman's empire influence can be seen in food, clothes and music. These areas have been affected by some of the many invasions of North Africa, most recently that of the French. Spoiler A faience tile from the throne of Pharaoh Ramesses III depicting a tattooed ancient Libyan chief (ca. 1184 to 1153 BC). Spoiler The grand tribal identities of Berber antiquity (then often known as ancient Libyans)[62] were said to be three (roughly, from west to east): the Mauri, the Numidians near Carthage, and the Gaetulians. The Mauri inhabited the far west (ancient Mauretania, now Morocco and central Algeria). The Numidians occupied the regions between the Mauri and the city-state of Carthage. Both the Numidians and the Mauri had significant sedentary populations living in villages, and their peoples both tilled the land and tended herds. The Gaetulians were less settled, with predominantly pastoral elements, and lived in the near south on the margins of the Sahara.[63][64][65] For their part, the Phoenicians (Canaanites) came from the perhaps most advanced multicultural sphere then existing, the western coast of the Fertile Crescent. Accordingly, the material culture of Phoenicia was likely more functional and efficient, and their knowledge more explanatory, than that of the early Berbers. Hence, the interactions between Berbers and Phoenicians were often asymmetrical. The Phoenicians worked to keep their cultural cohesion and ethnic solidarity, and continuously refreshed their close connection with Tyre, the mother city.[66] The earliest Phoenician landing stations located on the coasts were probably meant merely to resupply and service ships bound for the lucrative metals trade with the Iberian peninsula.[67] Perhaps these newly arrived sea traders were not at first particularly interested in doing much business with the Berbers, for reason of the little profit regarding the goods the Berbers had to offer.[68] The Phoenicians established strategic colonial cities in many Berber areas, including sites outside of present-day Tunisia, e.g., the settlements at Oea, Leptis Magna, Sabratha (in Libya), and Volubilis, Chellah and Mogador (now in Morocco). As in Tunisia, these centres were trading hubs, and later offered support for resource development such as olive oil at Volubilis and Tyrian purple dye at Mogador. For their part, most Berbers maintained their independence as farmers or semi-pastorals although, due to the exemplar of Carthage, their organized politics increased in scope and acquired sophistication.[69] Metal trade Bonus?, second time I read this today. Ibero-Maurisia. Quote In fact, for a time their numerical and military superiority (the best horse riders of that time) enabled some Berber kingdoms to impose a tribute payable by Carthage, a condition that continued into the 5th century BC.[70] Also, due to the Berbero-Libyan Meshwesh dynasty's rule of Egypt (945–715 BC),[71] the Berbers near Carthage commanded significant respect (yet probably appearing more rustic than elegant Libyan pharaohs on the Nile). Correspondingly, in early Carthage careful attention was given to securing the most favourable treaties with the Berber chieftains, "which included intermarriage between them and the Punic aristocracy."[72] In this regard, perhaps the legend about Dido, the foundress of Carthage, as related by Trogus is apposite. Her refusal to wed the Mauritani chieftain Hiarbus might be indicative of the complexity of the politics involved.[73] Eventually, the Phoenician trading stations would evolve into permanent settlements, and later into small towns, which would presumably require a wide variety of goods as well as sources of food, which could be satisfied in trade with the Berbers. Yet here too, the Phoenicians probably would be drawn into organizing and directing such local trade, and also into managing agricultural production. In the 5th century BC, Carthage expanded its territory, acquiring Cape Bon and the fertile Wadi Majardah,[74] later establishing its control over productive farmlands within several hundred kilometres.[75] Appropriation of such wealth in land by the Phoenicians would surely inspire some resistance by the Berbers, although in warfare, too, the technical training, social organization, and weaponry of the Phoenicians would seem to work against the tribal Berbers. This social-cultural interaction in early Carthage has been summarily described: Lack of contemporary written records makes the drawing of conclusions here uncertain, which can only be based on inference and reasonable conjecture about matters of social nuance. Yet it appears that the Phoenicians generally did not interact with the Berbers as economic equals, but employed their agricultural labour, and their household services, whether by hire or indenture; many became sharecroppers.[76] For a period the Berbers were in constant revolt. In 396 there was a great uprising. "Thousands of rebels streamed down from the mountains and invaded Punic territory, carrying the serfs of the countryside along with them. The Carthaginians were obliged to withdraw within their walls and were besieged." Yet the Berbers lacked cohesion, and although 200,000 strong at one point they succumbed to hunger; their leaders were offered bribes; "they gradually broke up and returned to their homes."[77] Thereafter, "a series of revolts took place among the Libyans [Berbers] from the fourth century onwards Spoiler The Berbers had become involuntary 'hosts' to the settlers from the east, and obliged to accept the Punic dominance of Carthage for many centuries. The Berbers belonged to the lower social class when in Punic society[citation needed]. Nonetheless, therein they persisted largely unassimilated[citation needed], as a separate, submerged entity, as a culture of mostly passive urban and rural poor within the civil structures created by Punic rule.[79] In addition, and most importantly, the Berber peoples also formed quasi-independent satellite societies along the steppes of the frontier and beyond, where a minority continued as free 'tribal republics'. While benefiting from Punic material culture and political-military institutions, these peripheral Berbers (also called Libyans) maintained their own identity, culture and traditions, continued to develop their own agricultural and village skills, while living with the newcomers from the east in an asymmetric symbiosis.[80][81] As the centuries passed there naturally grew a Punic society of Phoenician-descent but born in Africa, called Libyphoenicians. This term later came to be applied also to Berbers acculturated to urban Phoenician culture.[82] Yet the whole notion of a Berber apprenticeship to the Punic civilization has been called an exaggeration sustained by a point of view fundamentally foreign to the Berbers.[83] There evolved a population of mixed ancestry, Berber and Punic. There would develop recognized niches in which Berbers had proven their utility. For example, the Punic state began to field Berber Numidian cavalry under their commanders on a regular basis. The Berbers eventually were required to provide soldiers (at first "unlikely" paid "except in booty"), which by the fourth century BC became "the largest single element in the Carthaginian army". a cruelty of Punics. Quote Yet in times of stress at Carthage, when a foreign force might be pushing against the city-state, some Berbers would see it as an opportunity to advance their interests, given their otherwise low status in Punic society[citation needed]. Thus, when the Greeks under Agathocles (361–289 BC) of Sicily landed at Cape Bon and threatened Carthage (in 310 BC), there were Berbers under Ailymas who went over to the invading Greeks.[85] Also, during the long Second Punic War (218–201 BC) with Rome (see below), the Berber King Masinissa (c. 240–148 BC) joined with the invading Roman general Scipio, resulting to the war-ending defeat of Carthage at Zama, despite the presence of their renowned general Hannibal; on the other hand, the Berber King Syphax (d. 202 BC) had supported Carthage. The Romans too read these cues, so that they cultivated their Berber alliances and, subsequently, favored the Berbers who advanced their interests following the Roman victory.[86] Carthage was faulted by her ancient rivals for the "harsh treatment of her subjects" as well as for "greed and cruelty".[87][88] Her Libyan Berber sharecroppers, for example, were required to pay half of their crops as tribute to the city-state during the emergency of the First Punic War. The normal exaction taken by Carthage was likely "an extremely burdonsome" one-quarter.[89] Carthage once famously attempted to reduce the number of its Libyan and foreign soldiers, leading to the Mercenary revolt (240–237 BC).[90][91][92] Also the city-state seemed to reward those leaders known to deal ruthlessly with its subject peoples. Hence the frequent Berber insurrections. Moderns fault Carthage for failure "to bind her subjects to herself, as Rome did" her Italians. Yet Rome and the Italians held far more in common perhaps than did Carthage and the Berbers. Nonetheless, a modern criticism tells us that the Carthaginians "did themselves a disservice" by failing to promote the common, shared quality of "life in a properly organized city" that inspires loyalty, particularly with regard to the Berbers.[93] Again, the tribute demanded by Carthage was onerous.[94] The Punic relationship with the majority Berbers continued throughout the life of Carthage. The unequal development of material culture and social organization perhaps fated the relationship to be an uneasy one. A long-term cause of Punic instability, there was no melding of the peoples. It remained a source of stress and a point of weakness for Carthage. Yet there were degrees of convergence on several particulars, discoveries of mutual advantage, occasions of friendship, and family.[ Berbers factions Quote The Masaesyli were a Berber tribe of western Numidia[1] and the main antagonists of the Massylii in eastern Numidia. During the Second Punic War the Masaesyli initially supported the Roman Republic and were led by Syphax against the Massylii, who were led by Masinissa. After Masinissa threatened to unite all Numidians in a confederacy against Rome, the Masaesyli turned against Rome and undertook the siege of Carthage. Syphax was defeated, however, and spent the remainder of his days in Roman captivity, while his tribe was assimilated into the kingdom of Masinissa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, Sundiata said: Veteran from the Punic Wars? I really like the Chemtou temple by the way... the temple would have to be extended to match the others.I don't know if it's just the facade that's represented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) First rulers. Quote Baga, Mauretania’s first king Mauretanians believed that Atlas, a Berber god, was their first king. But, according to historians, Baga was the first historical king of the Maur and Mauretania. In history books, the name of King Baga, who took Ceuta as his capital, is linked to the Second Punic War (218-201 BC), fought across the entire Western Mediterranean region for 17 years. «By the time of the war of 218-201 BC, a powerful Kingdom existed among the Mauri», wrote J. D. Fage, John Desmond Clark and Roland Anthony Oliver in «The Cambridge History of Africa» (Cambridge University Press, 1975), referring to the Kingdom of Baga. Baga is mostly known for the role he played during this war. Described as a «wealthy» and powerful king, he was «appealed for aid» by the first king of Numidia «Masinissa» in his «attempt to seize the throne of the Massylies (eastern Numidia) in 206 BC», recalled the same source. Although Baga refused to get involved in the war that was fought between Ancient Carthage and the Roman Republic, he accepted to help Masinissa. According to «The Cambridge History of Africa», Baga gave «Masinissa an escort of 4,000 troops to see him safely to the borders’ of his father’s kingdom (Numidia)». The same book indicates that this was the only and last mention of the Berber king in Roman history books. «After Baga’s fleeting appearance in recorded history, his Kingdom of the Mauri is lost in almost total obscurity for nearly a century», the abovementioned source indicates. Despite his brief appearance, Baga remains a «prominent» Berber leader, stressed Duane W Roller in «The World of Juba II and Kleopatra Selene: Royal Scholarship on Rome's African Frontier» (Routledge, 2004). Bocchus I, a treacherous king Another Berber king that interested the Romans is Bocchus I. The Mauretanian king who ruled the area from 110 BC to circa 91-81 BC, rose to fame during the Jugurthine War (112–106 BC), fought between Rome and Jugurtha the king of Numidia (modern-day Algeria). After he unsuccessfully attempted to sign a treaty with Rome, Bocchus joined Jugurtha in his war against the Romans. «In 107-106, they fought successfully against Gains Marius», a Roman general, wrote Britannica. The king’s alliance with the Numidian ruler was mainly aimed at «receiving western Numidia as his price», stressed Oxford. But Bocchus’ alliance with Jugurtha was marked with betrayal. According to history books, the Berber king was «persuaded» by Roman general and statesman Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, known commonly as Sulla, to «betray Jugurtha and hand him over» to the Romans. Bocchus I. / DR Bocchus’ deal with Sulla was, indeed, fruitful as it allowed him to «keep Western Numidia as far as the Moulouya river (near Oujda), which Jugurtha had ceded to him and he became an ally of Rome». As dear friend of the Romans, Bocchus was «depicted on Sulla’s signet ring (…) and in a controversial group of statues dedicated by Bocchus on the Capitol in 91 BC», Oxford wrote. According to historians, King Bocchus I ruled Mauretania from his capital Volubilis. In his book, Duane W. Roller recalls that there is evidence proving that the ancient city was home to Bocchus’ royal court. «[This] can be shown from the first known event of his career, his encounter with Eudoxos of Kyzikos, the great explorer who opened up the route between the Mediterranean and India», Roller said. He further explains that «Eudoxos attempted to reach India by sailing west into the Atlantic, but he abandoned his voyage somewhere near the Kingdom of Bocchus and then went by foot to the royal court (…) Volubilis seems the only place that Euxodos could have encountered Bocchus court». Bogud, a king dethroned due to his greed Named by two Moorish princes, Bogud was the king of Western Mauretania, controlling the land between Tangier and the Moulouya river, at the time of Julius Caesar and King Bocchus II the younger, who reigned over Eastern Mauretania. «King Bogud ruled in 49 BC Western Moors, while Bocchus junior dominated eastern Mauretania», writes Berber Encyclopedia. Although no one knows when their simultaneous reigns began, it is proved that these two kings succeeded Sosus-Mastanesosus, and shared his kingdom. Bocchus and Bogud are brothers and both sons of the same king. But while he reigned peacefully over the western part of Mauretania, the death of Julius Caesar pushed Bogud to make a bad choice. Supporting the famous Marcus Antonius (Mark Antony) during the Perugia War (41-40 BC), the Amazigh king went to Spain in the name of the latter and besieged Cadiz, leaving his throne empty. Coins with the name of King Bogud. / DR While in Spain, his subjects in Tingis (present-day Tangier) carried a coup against him in 38 BC. Bocchus II then seized this part of Mauretania, bringing together the two North African kingdoms. Bogud died in 31 BC in Greece, according to Berber Encyclopedia. Bocchus II, who succeeded in reestablishing a Moorish kingdom, died without leaving an heir. But he gave his kingdom to Augustus who, after a period of direct administration, offered it to Juba II, son of Juba I the Amazigh king and famous opponent to Julius Caesar. Juba II, a Berber king raised by the Romans During the first century BC, Rome managed to seize Numidia and Mauretania after a long and fierce war against North Africans and their Berber king Juba I. In 25 BC, the first roman emperor Augustus decided to bring back order to the region. In fact, Augustus turned Numidia into an annexed province of the Roman empire, choosing a local prince «who was dependent on Rome for foreign policy and was almost free when it comes to domestic affairs», said Christa Landwehr in «Les portraits de Juba II, roi de Maurétanie, et de Ptolémée, son fils et successeur» (Revue archéologique, 2007). This is how Juba II was named king of Mauretania. He was the son of Juba I, who had fought against famous Roman general Julius Caesar, lost to the Roman Empire and committed suicide before getting captured. Juba II. / DR By the end of this war, Juba II was taken to Rome where he received «excellent education at the court of Augustus» and married Cleopatra Selene, the daughter of Egypt’s Cleopatra VII and Mark Antony. ...More : https://en.yabiladi.com/articles/details/86257/baga-bocchus-juba-these-berber.html...More : https://en.yabiladi.com/articles/details/86257/baga-bocchus-juba-these-berber.html Numidia and Mauri kingdom are very different Quote Numidia (202 – 46 BC) was an ancient Berber kingdom in modern Algeria and part of Tunisia. It later alternated between being a Roman province and being a Roman client state. The polity was located on the eastern border of modern Algeria, bordered by the Roman province of Mauretania (in modern Algeria and Morocco) to the west, the Roman province of Africa (modern Tunisia) to the east, the Mediterranean to the north, and the Sahara Desert to the south. Its people were the Numidians. The name Numidia was first applied by Polybius and other historians during the third century BC to indicate the territory west of Carthage, including the entire north of Algeria as far as the river Mulucha (Muluya), about 160 kilometres (100 mi) west of Oran. The Numidians were conceived of as two great groups: the Massylii in eastern Numidia, and the Masaesyli in the west. During the first part of the Second Punic War, the eastern Massylii under their king Gala were allied with Carthage, while the western Masaesyli under king Syphax were allied with Rome. In 206 BC, the new king of the eastern Massylii, Masinissa, allied himself with Rome, and Syphax of the Masaesyli switched his allegiance to the Carthaginian side. At the end of the war, the victorious Romans gave all of Numidia to Masinissa of the Massylii. At the time of his death in 148 BC, Masinissa's territory extended from Mauretania to the boundary of the Carthaginian territory, and also south-east as far as Cyrenaica, so that Numidia entirely surrounded Carthage (Appian, Punica, 106) except towards the sea. Masinissa was succeeded by his son Micipsa. When Micipsa died in 118 BC, he was succeeded jointly by his two sons Hiempsal I and Adherbal and Masinissa's illegitimate grandson, Jugurtha, of Berber origin, who was very popular among the Numidians. Hiempsal and Jugurtha quarreled immediately after the death of Micipsa. Jugurtha had Hiempsal killed, which led to open war with Adherbal. After Jugurtha defeated him in open battle, Adherbal fled to Rome for help. The Roman officials, allegedly due to bribes but perhaps more likely because of a desire to quickly end conflict in a profitable client kingdom, settled the fight by dividing Numidia into two parts. Jugurtha was assigned the western half. However, soon after conflict broke out again, leading to the Jugurthine War between Rome and Numidia Quote Mauretania Main article: Mauretania In antiquity, Mauretania (3rd century BC – 44 BC) was an ancient Mauri Berber kingdom in modern Morocco and part of Algeria. It became a client state of the Roman empire in 33 BC, then a full Roman province after the death of its last king Ptolemy of Mauretania in AD, a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty Ptolemy of Mauretania. Edited January 14, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 The Army. the funny thing of the game. Honga and TW games said or place Numidian Legionaries. Quote Numidia had a fierce warrior tradition, partly because the eastern Massylii and western Masaesyli had a history of bitter feuding and internal warfare. They took, and changed, sides in the Punic Wars to suit their own agendas, only emerging as a single state after the cataclysmic Battle of Zama in 202BC. The defeat of Carthage allowed the Numidians to expand their lands, eventually leading to the Jugurthine War of 112-105BC against Rome. Numidia’s king, Jugurtha, was only defeated when he was betrayed by his father-in-law, Bocchus. While the Numidians were famed as cavalrymen, their infantry forces were also quite effective. The historian Suetonius mentions that there were Numidian 'legions', a term reserved for Roman troops, when passing comment on Julius Caesar’s speech regarding Juba’s march to aid Scipio before the Battle of Thapsus in 46BC. This suggests that some Numidians were fighting in the Roman style, and were possibly equipped in the same manner. The Numidians also adopted other tactics and war gear, such as the thureos-style shield and hoplite-like spears https://www.honga.net/totalwar/rome2/unit.php?l=en&v=rome2&f=rom_masaesyli&u=dk_num_desert_cohort this isnt a primary source but have a useful hint. Suetonius said such things? Thyreos style is very like possible. if Carthage uses Hoplites and greek style why Numidians didnt such thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) reply to myself probably wrote this because he born in that land. Spoiler Quote Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus was probably born about 69 AD, a date deduced from his remarks describing himself as a "young man" twenty years after Nero's death. His place of birth is disputed, but most scholars place it in Hippo Regius, a small north African town in Numidia, in modern-day Algeria but we have Caesar info. https://books.google.hn/books?id=9BghBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=numidian+legionaries+suetonius&source=bl&ots=LZrOjqEfpN&sig=ACfU3U0YP7KT6TDnnusi_RMLrgHywhTS3Q&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjm4MC-hoTnAhVIo1kKHR_gBQM4ChDoATAAegQICRAB Quote — ten Roman legions, four Numidian ‘legions’ on the Roman model, and 15,000 cavalry. One advantage was that the optimates had alienated the native population with their high-handed arrogance and violent exactions of supplies. An even bigger advantage was the face that the optimate leadership was still fractious. Metellus Scipio had been given overall command, but his indecision and weakness of character meant that his orders were rubbery, and such a situation never inspires confidence among line troops. Juba of Numidia assisted the opronates. He had a personal grudge against Caesar, who many years before, while Juba was on a diplomatic mission to Rome, had tugged the Numidian’s beard in the heat of a courtroom quarrel (Suetonius, Life of the Divine Julius 71). Sell, only half of the eight legions that fought for Caesar in Africa were composed of veterans. He had lost many men in battle, of course, and had faced the necessity of discharging others and giving them their long overdue lands and rewards. Some of his legions were particularly inexperienced. Quote When they were in a panic through reports about the enemy's numbers, he used to rouse their courage not by denying or discounting the rumours, but by falsely exaggerating the true danger. For instance, when the anticipation of Juba's coming filled them with terror, he called the soldiers together and said: "Let me tell you that within the next few days the king will be here with ten legions, thirty thousand horsemen, a hundred thousand light-armed troops, and three hundred elephants. Therefore some of you may as well cease to ask further questions or make surmises and may rather believe me, since I know all about it. Otherwise, I shall surely have them shipped on some worn out craft and carried off to whatever lands the wind may blow them." http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Suetonius/12Caesars/Julius*.html Juba help Pompeian troops. Quote Roman allies - List: Early Imperial Roman (Bk 2/56) This list covers the period from just before the first Roman mission trained King Syphax's infantry until the suppression of Tacfarinas’ revolt. It can alse be used from 310 BC to provide allied contingents. Juba [ supported the Pompeian army in Africa under Metellus, Labienus and Petreius with troops and elephants but did not join them in battle. The minimum marked * applies only if the army represents that of Juba ], Bogud or Tacfarinas. Deserters and Gaetuli cannot be used together. An ally general who is not commanding an allied contingent in a Roman army can only command cavalry, javelinmen and archers or slingers. About this rebel revolt. Spoiler Tacfarinas (Latinised form of Berber Tikfarin or Takfarin; died AD 24) was a Numidian Berber deserter from the Roman army who led his own Musulamii tribe and a loose and changing coalition of other Berber tribes in a war against the Romans in North Africa during the rule of the emperor Tiberius (AD 14–37). Though Tacfarinas' personal motivation is unknown, it is likely that the Roman occupation under Augustus of the traditional grazing grounds of the Musulamii was the determining factor. The war lasted from c. AD 15 to 24 and engaged four successive proconsuls (governors) of the Roman province of Africa (modern Tunisia), which, although a small part of the empire, was an important source of Rome's grain supply. It is unlikely that the Romans were ever in danger of being driven out of the province altogether, although in at least two periods, Tacfarinas' forces greatly outnumbered the local Roman garrison. However, the incapacity of Tacfarinas' lightly armed forces to defeat the Romans in set-piece battles or to assault Roman fortifications prevented him from achieving a decisive victory. Nevertheless, Tacfarinas' large-scale raids caused severe disruption of the province's grain production, which in turn threatened civil disorder in Rome. The Romans were for a long time unable to eradicate their enemy because of the Numidians' extraordinary mobility and their support from the many desert tribes. Tacfarinas was finally captured and killed in AD 24 by a combination of determined pursuit and a lucky break in intelligence. A direct consequence of the war was the registration of the entire Tunisian plateau for land taxation and its conversion to mainly wheat cultivation. The Musulamii and other nomadic tribes were likely permanently excluded from what had been their summer grazing grounds and subsequently forced to lead a more impoverished existence in the Aurès mountains and the arid zone. The conflict also probably sealed the long-term fate of the client kingdom of Mauretania, which was annexed in AD 44 by the emperor Claudius Roman point of view. Quote In Roman times, the indigenes of northwest Africa (present-day Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and Morocco) all belonged to the Berber-speaking nation.[Note 1] The Romans called these peoples, loosely east to west, Libyae, Afri (in Tunisia, from which the name Africa is probably derived), Numidae (eastern Algeria), and Mauri (western Algeria and Morocco, from which the name Moors is derived). North of the Atlas mountains, the land was fertile and well-watered (there is evidence that rainfall was heavier than today and that the desert had not encroached as far North). The Berbers living inside the fertile zone were largely sedentary. In contrast, on the southern fringes existed tribes that led a semi-nomadic existence. They practiced transhumance, living off herds of cattle, sheep, and goats. They spent the summers on the central plateau of Tunisia and the Aurès mountains of northeast Algeria where there was good grazing for the animals. In winter, they lived around the Chotts (pronounced "shots"), a string of large salt lakes on the desert southern fringes of the Roman province. In winter, this region contained plentiful freshwater in the form of seasonal torrents from the Aurès mountains to the North.[3] These tribes included the Gaetuli, Musulamii, and Garamantes, as well as the nomadic elements of the Mauri.[3] Lybians, Afri, Numidians and Mauri forms Berbers from Roman times. following... the Legions... Quote Does anyone have any information or pictures of these guys? I'm starting work on my Punic Numidians and have enough for everyone except these chaps. The trained infantry have a picture in a WRG book – however I can find no reliable reference or images for the later Imitation Legionaries though. Any help would be appreciated. http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=123253 Quote Well, they're far from imaginary. Suetonius credits them to King Juba: ten "legions'" worth. And Tactitus describes troops under the Moorish (same people, next kingdom over) rebel leader Tacfarinas as picked men armed in Roman fashion, and organized into regular "battalions" with standards. But specifics of their appreance: you won't find any. I wouldn't go too far to make them "exotic". Numidia and Mauretania were well Hellenized, and by the time of the two documented examples, Roman kit was fairly well standardized. Juba was a contemporary of Pompey and Caesar; Tacfarinas' revolt was during the time of the emperor Tiberius (Tacfarinas had been a Roman auxiliary). So if I were doing it, I might look at troops with Roman/Celtic mail, perhaps Coolus helmets, oval scuta, and open hands, so that gamers could give them pila or simple javelins. Probably beards would be good. Not much difference from a late Republican legionary or early Imperial auxiliary. same as roman but may be more different style of guy, like a Lybo-phoenician, a Berber in Roman fashion. Quote My guess, and wild guess it would be, is that they would look essentially similar to contemporary Romans except in the detail of their kit; perhaps some might have punic style helmets, for example. But perhaps it might have been difficult to source sufficient chainmail in Africa? Alternatively perhaps they might have thureos rather than scuta, looking like hellenistic thorakitae. Nick Secunda describes the Seleucid ILs, and some troops who may well have been Egyptian, looking very much like thorakitae. We've also oft wondered on TMP how the Pontic ILs might have appeared, to little avail (except for some indications that they were hard to distinguish from Romans); then there are the Gabinine remnants in Egypt; how were they equipped, still as Romans? I'd hazard there's not a lot of definite info to be found. and a fair point. Quote The very term "Imitation Legionaries" may well be a misnomer. Roman Authors of the time may have missed/forgoten/ignored the fact that the Roman Legionaries were themselves imitations of their neighbours style of fighting. The Galatian-Hellenistic Thureophoroi and the Spanish Scutarii are the main claims to fame for this. For instance, the Romans adopted the Gladius short sword of the Spanish Scutarii and made it so much their own that it's gone down in history as the archetypal "Roman" weapon. They very likely adopted the smaller oval scutum because of the Spanish influence as well. It is interesting to note that the tactic of the Spanish Scutarii – to throw their javelins/throwing spears and then draw their gladius and charge – is the very tactic that the Roman Legionaries refined and employed so effectively themselves. In fact most of the equipment and tactics that we think of as "Roman" probably originated elsewhere. The Romans simply took these ideas from other places, put them all together, and came up with the perfect hybrid; The Legion. But even in it's prime the possible inspiration for the Legionary's origins can be seen if one looks closely enough and far enough back. It is possible that it is these original legionary-inspiring oval shielded throwing spear types that Roman authors witnessed and mis-identified. No Roman author was ever about to say so but it could well be that actually the legions themselves were "Imitation Thureophoroi" or even more likely "Imitation Scutarii". With proper professional training and discipline they just did it so much better was all. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?697422-PREVIEW-Numidia&styleid=41 Quote Reformed Infantry, Numidian Spearmen, Numidian Light Armed Foot.It is said by Livy that a Roman legate named Q. Statorius, was sent to Numidia just before the 2nd Punic war, to train their infantry in the Roman fashion. We have called these retrained units "Reformed Infantry". It is said that they were trained in the Roman fashion, and taught how to keep to the standards, advance in cohesive formations, and other such things. However this does not mean they were Numidian Legionaries, their equipment was still likely limited to the basics, spears, little armour, but thureos shields at least. Over the following decades this training wore off, and the upgrade for this unit is in some ways a downgrade, as they revert into regular, less disciplined spearmen with more varied equipment. The final evolution of this unit, which is also what the Numidian Javelinmen merge into, is the Light Armed Foot. This is the Numidian late Infantry which faced Caesar in his war in Africa. They are quite well trained and organised and capable of following orders, but they prefer fight in the traditional Numidian fashion of skirmishing. However, if need be, they are not as afraid of melee as the earlier skirmishers, and will engage if they have to, if only to prevert a pinning force for the cavalry. Quote The name of him who remained with the king was Quintus Statorius. With the two centorions the Numidan sent into Spain ambassadors on his part, to receive the ratification of the convention from the Roman generals; and he charged them, after they should have executed this commission, to persuade the Numidians, who acted as auxiliaries in the Carthaginian garrisons, to come over to the other side. Statorius, finding abundance of young men, raised an army of infantry for the king, and forming them into distinct bodies, according to the Roman method, taught them, in taking their posts and performing their several evolutions, to follow their standards and keep their ranks; and LIVY, VOL.III : Quintus Statorius. help to raises this Roman fashion Numidians. Punic, African , Coolus , Montefortino should be fine. Edited January 14, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Second part about Romanized Numidians Infantry. Quote Tacfarinas: "In this same year a war broke out in Africa, where the enemy was led by Tacfarinas. A Numidian by birth, he had served as an auxiliary in the Roman camp, then becoming a deserter, he at first gathered round him a roving band familiar with robbery, for plunder and for rapine. After a while, he marshalled them like regular soldiers, under standards and in troops, till at last he was regarded as the leader, not of an undisciplined rabble, but of the Musulamian people. This powerful tribe, bordering on the deserts of Africa, and even then with none of the civilisation of cities, took up arms and drew their Moorish neighbours into the war. These too had a leader, Mazippa. The army was so divided that Tacfarinas kept the picked men ---who were armed in Roman fashion--- within a camp, and familiarized them with a commander's authority, while Mazippa, with light troops, spread around him fire, slaughter, and consternation. They had forced the Ciniphii, a far from contemptible tribe, into their cause, when Furius Camillus, proconsul of Africa, united in one force a legion and all the regularly enlisted allies, and, with an army insignificant indeed compared with the multitude of the Numidians and Moors, marched against the enemy. There was nothing however which he strove so much to avoid as their eluding an engagement out of fear. It was by the hope of victory that they were lured on only to be defeated. The legion was in the army's centre; the light cohorts and two cavalry squadrons on its wings. Nor did Tacfarinas refuse battle. The Numidians were routed, and after a number of years the name of Furius won military renown. Since the days of the famous deliverer of our city and his son Camillus, fame as a general had fallen to the lot of other branches of the family, and the man of whom I am now speaking was regarded as an inexperienced soldier. All the more willingly did Tiberius commemorate his achievements in the Senate, and the Senators voted him the ornaments of triumph, an honour which Camillus, because of his unambitious life, enjoyed without harm." http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=123253 Cornelius tacitus wrote. Quote Tacfarinas had acquired some rudiments of military discipline. .He formed hig rash levied numbers into companies of foot and squadrons of horse. Having drawn over to his party the Musula- nians, a nation bordering on the wilds of Africa, where they led a roving life, without towns, or fixed habitations, he was no longer the chief of a band of robbers, but with a higher title, the general of a peo- ple. The neighbouring Moors, a race of savages, under the command of Mazippa, jqined the confe- deracy. The two chiefs apreed to divide their troops into two separate bodies. Tacfarinas, with the flower of the army formed a regular camp, arming hia men after the Roman manner, and training them to the art of war: while Mazivpa Quote In this same year a war broke out in Africa, where the enemy was led by Tacfarinas. A Numidian by birth, he had served as an auxiliary in the Roman camp, then becoming a deserter, he at first gathered round him a roving band familiar with robbery, for plunder and for repine. After a while, he marshalled them like regular soldiers, under standards and in troops, till at last he was regarded as the leader, not of an undisciplined rabble, but of the Musulamian people. This powerful tribe, bordering on the deserts of Africa, and even then with none of the civilization of cities, took up arms and drew their Moorish neighbours into the war. These too had a leader, Mazippa. The army was so divided that Tacfarinas kept the picked men who were armed in Roman fashion within a camp, and familiarised them with a commander's authority, while Mazippa, with light troops, spread around him fire, slaughter, and consternation. They had forced the Ciniphii, a far from contemptible tribe, into their cause, when Furius Camillus, pro-consul of Africa, united in one force a legion and all the regularly enlisted allies, and, with an army insignificant indeed compared with the multitude of the Numidians and TACFARINAS REBELS IN AFRICA Moors, marched against the enemy. There was nothing however which he strove so much to avoid as their eluding an engagement out of fear. It was by the hope of victory that they were lured on only to be defeated. The legion was in the army's centre; the light cohorts and two cavalry squadrons on its wings. Nor did Tacfarinas refuse battle. The Numidians were routed, and after a number of years the name of Furius won military renown. Since the days of the famous deliverer of our city and his son Camillus, fame as a general had fallen to the lot of other branches of the family, and the man of whom I am now speaking was regarded as an inexperienced soldier. All the more willingly did Tiberius commemorate his achievements in the Senate, and the Senators voted him the ornaments of triumph, an honour which Camillus, because of his unambitious life, enjoyed without harm. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0078%3Abook%3D2%3Achapter%3D52 Tac. Ann. 2.52 -Tacitus Annals II 52 ___________________________________________________ African Helmet where are those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 @Sundiata @wackyserious You know where this illustration come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) So, they are some kind Thureophoroi? or more Scutarii like? @wackyserious I love these details in the textile. Spoiler Hannibal’s core infantry were heavily armed and armored Carthaginians who fought in closely disciplined ranks. They were trained in the Greek style, using huge round shields and long spears to present a solid wall of death to the enemy, a line of iron and bronze. They were Africans all, drawn mostly from modern-day Tunisia, Libya and Algeria or more Hannibal army with Lybo Phoenician usin mixed equimpent? (removing the Hellenistic helmet) Spoiler the helmet is from Phoenicia the front is similar to Attic but mixing with Levantine Helmet shields are Thyreos Hippo Regio stele. I found the source of image and very handful material is from. Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars 359 BC to 146 BC. Spoiler Quote A relief from near Daskytion in Phrygia shows cavalry with thighguards and conical crestless helmets, probably the local satrap's guard Quote The Carthaginian citizen infantry at the time of the third war with Rome, however, are described by Appian and Strabo as having swords, /ongchai (light spears or javelins) and rhureor (oval shields). This is essentially the samc style of fighting as that of the Phoenician marines in Xerxes’ fleet in 480, except that the western shureos adopted from Gallic or Spanish mercenaries has replaced the older Phoenician light round shields. The use of thureos (Thyreus) and javelins is confirmed by Punic-influenced Numidian stelae (figure 108). Probably only the Sacred Band was ever more heavily equipped, and after this disappeared about 300, all Carthaginian citizen infantry would have usedjavelins and thureos. It is highly unlikely that such troops would use metal armour, though the traditional linen cuirasses are perhaps possible. 98 is such a soldier. The Carthaginian citizen troops in the second line at Zama would be like this, as well as the troops of the third war, and no doubt the citizen levies of the other Punic cities that occasionally appear on the battlefield. In the Phoenician homeland, Sidon’s numerous “well trained and strong” citizen soldiers fought against Persia in 350, while Tyre’s militia put up a good defence against Alexander. They too would probably fight with javelins, but would keep the old light round shields instead of the western thureos. @Sundiata I found the unit you asking for early. Quote LIBYAN CAVALRYMAN Based on a terracotta figurine of a north African cavalryman. His hair is arranged in tiers of ringlets like the Numidian style (see figure 105) but he differs in several respects from Numidian cavalry. He is seated on a saddlecloth; he certainly wears shoes, and a ridge at his right wrist indicates long sleeves. Visible muscle detail on his chest and a sharp out-turned ridge at the waist suggest he is wearing a Hellenistic muscled plate cuirass. In addition his shield has a rounded boss and raised rim, unlike the Numidian style. He wears a crescent pendant around his neck, recalling the Libyan ornament of figure 104. I suggest therefore that he is a Libyan or Liby- phoenician heavy cavalryman in Carthaginian service. Quote LIBYAN VETERAN SPEARMAN Tt must often have happened that ancient armies finished campaigns looking very different than when they started, having replaced or supplemented their original clothing and equipment with articles looted from the enemy or the local populace. Hannibal’s army in Italy is the best documented example. Crossing the Alps they were supplied with clothing by a friendly Gallic chief. At Cannae the Libyans appear all armed in Roman style, with the best of the equipment captured at previous victories. Only the Libyans were thus armed; the Gauls still appear stripped to the waist, the Spaniards with their brilliant white tunics unobscured by armour. If there was enough loot available to offer to them, they presumably preferred not to hamper their native agility. This man therefore wears a Gallic runic and shoes, having discarded in the Italian heat the trousers and cloek he would also have worn when crossing the Alps. He has a bronze Montefortino helmet, iron mailshirt (with a waistbelt to gird it in tightly so that all the weight does not drag on the shoulders; probebly a necessity despite the Libyan aversion to belts) and strapped bronze greaves, all Roman loot. A very finely ornamented Oscan triple-disc cuirass, of the type shown in figure 147a, found in north Africa, was probably a similar article of loot brought back from Italy by one of Hannibal’s veterans. He also carries a large Roman scutum. It has been suggested that the Libyans would keep their round shields to avoid being mistaken for the enemy, but this seems unnecessary as there was little danger of such confusion when two formed bodies of heavy infantry met. They did not, however,apparently adopt the pilum, as the passage from Plutarch cited under 102, indicating that the Libyans used short spears, refers to a period after the assumption of Roman armour at Cannae. Quote 107 and 166. NUMIDIAN INFANTRY 107 is essentially the same as his mounted counterpart. Most Numidian and Moorish infantry were javelin skirmishers like this; the few archers and slingers would probably look similar. However experiments like Syphax’ Roman-trained infantry represent an attempt to create close-fighting troops, and they were probably more like 108. He is based on a Punic-influenced stele of perhaps the 2nd century BC from the Numidian city of Cirta (Constantine) which provides his oval thureos with spine and winged metal boss, two javelins, sword, and helmet, which is of the conical Punic type with a thick rim. The stele has been identified with that of a Spanish mercenary but bears the Punic name Abdasart. He is either a Phoenician in Numidia or, more likely, a Numidian who has been influenced by Punic religion and culture to the extent of adopting a Punic name (probably for religious reasons; it means “‘servant of Astarte”’). The impact of Punic civilisation on Numidia was great, and continued even after the fall of Carthage. Syphax’ Roman-trained troops and Jugurtha’s later army at least used standards; there is no record of their form, but they may well have used Punic religious symbolism like those shown in figure 100. Spoiler now Im realize where they access to such great technology. Edited January 15, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) Quote 178. LIBYAN CHARIOT The Libyan tribes, the Greeks of Kyrene and the Carthaginians used, until the end of the 4th century or the early 3rd, four-horse chariots; no doubt all of them used the same basic design, Herodotos saying that the Greeks had actually learned the use of four-horse chariots from the Libyans. Only the nearest horse has been shown, for clarity, in this drawing. It is based largely on a Persian relief from Persepolis. Some crude Libyan rock-carvings, showing more or less a plan view, confirm that the chariot had two poles, running along the outside of the body; one carving shows two yokes, another shows one long yoke-bar attached to both poles and stretching across the shoulders of all four horses. The Persian reliefs show what seem to be rein-guidance rings attached to the yokes, and strengthening bars attaching the yoke-poles to the front of the chariot body. The Libyan graffiti show the chariot’s body about twice as wide as it is long; they represent it as a simple rectangle with a crossbar halfway along the long sides. This may represent the front view of the body, with a reinforcing bar connecting the top and bottom frames. The significance of the diagonal patterning on the body of the Persepolis chariot is not certain, unless it indicates that the body was lightly built of criss-cross diagonal leather straps on a wooden framework. The Persepolis sculprures shows heavy 12-spoked wheels with studded rims, but the Libyan graffiti have lighter 4- or 6-spoked wheels. Since Persian chariots had similar heavy wheels, I suspect the Persian sculptor may have been depicting the sort of chariot-wheel he is used to, rather than accurately copying, and so I have followed the Libyan evidence. Edited January 15, 2020 by Lion.Kanzen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 -Buenas ; Como posibles unidades de soldados ; -Infantería númida; 1)-Lancero .(Nombre específico;"Aanatim Mookdamim") 2)-Espadachín .(Nombre específico;"Aanatim Dorkim ") 3)-Arquero.(Nombre específico;"Aanatim Qasatim ") 4)-Hondero.(Nombre específico;"Aanatim Qala'im") 5)-Guerrillero.(Nombre específico;"Aanatim Mitnagsim ") -Mercenarios; 6)-(2 Mercenarios Garamantes). 7)-(2 Mercenarios Bereberes). 8)-(2 Mercenarios Gétulos). 9)-(2 Mercenarios Libios ). -Caballería númida; 10)-Caballería ligera de contacto (lanza/hacha/ espada).(Nombre específico; "Parahsim Mamla'ha ") 11)-Caballería a distancia ligera.(Nombre específico;"Parashim Mitnag'him ") 12)-Caballería pesada de contacto.(Nombre especifico;"HaParashim Gldgmtk")- 13)-Caballería a distancia pesada.(Nombre específico;"HaParashim Mepaqet")- -Unidades pesadas númidas; 14)-Elefante de guerra (como arma de asedio) 15)-Elefante con torreón de arqueros. -Unidades campeonas númidas; 16)-Legionario númida.(Nombre específico;"Noshei")-(como unidad campeona) 17)-Carro de combate.-(como unidad campeona) -Unidades de civiles númidas; 18)- Mujer. 19)-Sacerdote. 20)-Comerciante . -Unidades de Héroes númidas ; 21)-Héroe 1.(Nombre específico; "Masinissa"). 22)-Héroe 2.(Nombre específico ;"Yugurta"). 23)-Héroe 3.(Nombre específico;"Juba Primero"). -Extras; 24)-Navío mercante. 25)-Guerrero a camello. Fuentes ; 1) https://erasdelmundo.foroactivo.com/t598-los-numidas 2) http://www.campaign-game-miniatures.0catch.com/corvusbelli_ants1.html 3) https://makarren.wordpress.com/category/dba/page/4/ 4) http://caballipedia.es/La_caballería_en_África 5) https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?754653 6) http://bennosfiguresforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21601&p=236367 7) https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/wiki/Pelakim_Mashliyim_(Numidian_General_Bodyguard) 8) https://www.taringa.net/+juegos/megapost-numidia-rome-total-war_iz0piUnidades 9) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=hungarian&id=342869852 10) https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=451516300 11) https://hesperiana.wordpress.com/2016/09/19/numidians/ 12) https://divideetimperamod.com/masaesyli/ 13) https://www.totalwar.com/blog/masaesyli-roster-reveal/ 14) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?524392-Preview-Mamla-ha-biMassylim 15) https://bucellarii.blogspot.com/2018/06/numidian-elephants.html 16) https://www.mundusbellicus.fr/forum/total-war/total-war-attila/mods-modding/ancient-empires/518697-aperçu-les-numides 17) https://www.moddb.com/news/preview-mamlaha-bimassylim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 sería bonito ver así a los elefantes ; Disculpen las molestias . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duileoga Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 -posibles bonificaciones ; -Bonificación de equipo; "Auxiliares "(tus aliados pueden reclutar unidades de tu facción en tus propios cuarteles , centro cívico o fortaleza siendo los recursos gastados en su reclutamiento pagados a ti) -Bonificación de civilización ; "Munición"(el tiempo de recarga entre disparar cada proyectil es menor respecto a unidades sililares de otras civilizaciones) , "Escaramuza"( caballería a distancia se retira al ser atacada),"Hostigamiento"( La caballería es más eficaz contra infantería , mercaderes , mujeres y clérigos) -Tecnologías especiales ; "Disparo parto"(Disparan proyectiles en movimiento-siendo devastador en las unidades enemigas en retirada-),"Abundancia de elefantes"(Reduce el tiempo y coste de elefantes solo para los númidas ) Disculpen las molestias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted January 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 25 minutes ago, Duileoga said: -Bonificación de equipo; "Auxiliares "(tus aliados pueden reclutar unidades de tu facción en tus propios cuarteles , centro cívico o fortaleza siendo los recursos gastados en su reclutamiento pagados a ti Todavía tenemos esa característica en el juego. Le debo pedir a Stan que si es fácil de hacer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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