Civ: Germans (Cimbri, Suebians, Goths)

[Lion.Kanzen]

Without a doubt, if they were joined by two Gallic tribes, they must have been quite Celtic in their appearance and manner of fighting.

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Ultimate Aurelian]

18 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

using the old linothorax looks cool for boiorix. With a white shield this will look really cool.

This helmet might be too late for the Cimbrian War timeframe.

It is a type that was introduced the 1st century BC and use in the Gallic Wars.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

yes especially with the animal on top. Also we know that animal symbols are not common.

That being said, the Cimbrian wars were almost in the first century.

Tbh, I think it would be cool to either go really simple or use a captured roman helmet.

[Lion.Kanzen]

33 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

This helmet might be too late for the Cimbrian War timeframe.

It is a type that was introduced the 1st century BC and use in the Gallic Wars.

I thought it was a  kind of Montefortino.

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 24/09/2019 at 2:05 PM, Obskiuras said:

Two banner model, enjoy the choice.

I'm going to do this one.

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 01/05/2020 at 10:27 AM, Stan` said:

rally_point_goth.xcf 1.46 MB · 133 downloads

 

 

deer.svg 5.75 kB · 87 downloads rally_point_goth.xcf 1.46 MB · 129 downloads deer.svg 5.75 kB · 84 downloads

Here's one.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 18/08/2024 at 3:38 PM, Genava55 said:

Animal representations were extremely rare at this time on the material that survived. And when it is the case, the depiction and the style are simplistic. The earliest form of emblematic native art appeared with the bracteates, during the Roman Empire.

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

On 18/08/2024 at 4:38 PM, Genava55 said:

Animal representations were extremely rare at this time on the material that survived. And when it is the case, the depiction and the style are simplistic. The earliest form of emblematic native art appeared with the bracteates, during the Roman Empire.

Expand  

The problem is that there is a lot of mixing of themes here, Suebian and Cimbrian.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 24/10/2024 at 10:56 AM, Genava55 said:

Maybe someone can work on turning this into an emblem? Needs to be a bit more circular, maybe needs to be desaturated some.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

3 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

The problem is that there is a lot of mixing of themes here, Suebian and Cimbrian.

No, its a more a mix (not melting bot) of cimbrian and gaul culture. Suebians were much later as I understand.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 minute ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

No, its a more a mix (not melting bot) of cimbrian and gaul culture. Suebians were much later as I understand.

No, I'm saying is that the post is already very long (36+ pages) and has a lot of mixed content.

I can't find my designs, and all the content is mixed up. I can easily tell the difference between the Goths, but I can barely tell when it comes to the Cimbri and the new ones.

The worst thing is that I found a banner without animal symbols.

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Maybe someone can work on turning this into an emblem? Needs to be a bit more circular, maybe needs to be desaturated some.

I can do it but then I don't want it to be omitted or left unused.

[Ultimate Aurelian]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

yes especially with the animal on top. Also we know that animal symbols are not common.

That being said, the Cimbrian wars were almost in the first century.

Tbh, I think it would be cool to either go really simple or use a captured roman helmet.

Some sort of animals symbol is mentioned by Plutarch; but the description is pretty vague.

Quote

 They wore helmets, made to resemble the head and jaws of wild beasts, and other strange shapes, and heightening these with plumes of feathers, 

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I thought it was a  kind of Montefortino.

It seems to be a Port helmet, introduced around 60 B.C.

Edited Saturday at 18:41 by Ultimate Aurelian

[real_tabasco_sauce]

5 minutes ago, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Quote

They wore helmets, made to resemble the head and jaws of wild beasts, and other strange shapes, and heightening these with plumes of feathers, 

 

this is inspiration for the wolf skins, like on lugius and the axe champion infantry.

[Lion.Kanzen]

We would use what is inside the circle.

It is a job with quite a few details and difficulty.

There is another easy way to do it, with a 3D render.

The style that Enrique used.

But it is dangerously legal, I mean barely legal.

My strategy is to do it from 0. Completely legal.

[Lion.Kanzen]

12 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

We would use what is inside the circle.

It is a job with quite a few details and difficulty.

There is another easy way to do it, with a 3D render.

The style that Enrique used.

But it is dangerously legal, I mean barely legal.

My strategy is to do it from 0. Completely legal.

https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/78851/how-to-make-bas-relief-from-picture

Basically it is the technique of baking an image, but you always needed the original and projected it. Then you form a relief and then bake it and make a rendering.

@Stan`  knows best how to do this technique.

Edited Saturday at 19:04 by Lion.Kanzen

[Genava55]

On 24/10/2024 at 8:33 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

We decided to call them Germans instead of Cimbri because there are 4 different tribes represented within the faction, some of them just as powerful as the Cimbri, so it made more sense to call them Germans. The Gauls aren't called "Arverni," for example. Anyway, it's not perfect, but that's the basis of the decision. If we add more Germanic factions in the future (like Goths or Suebians), we can alter the name.

That's true but the Gauls in our game is not only the Gauls of the sack of Rome, or the Gauls of the Punic Wars, or the Gauls of the Gallic Wars. They depict a civilisation over a time span of four centuries.

Why it is so difficult to grasp a civilisation that knew some diversity and evolution in its history?

Edited 23 hours ago by Genava55

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

20 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

Why it is so difficult to grasp a civilisation that knew some diversity and evolution in its history?

Uhhh, this is not difficult to "grasp." Don't know what the implication here is. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Is this about the name? Germans vs Cimbri?

Well "Gauls" is, from what I understand, quite a generic term as there were many gallic tribes. In this case, using "Cimbri" would be a little at odds with the other cimbri allies that are included in the civ.

Its true that some of these allies are better described as gallic or celtic, but as we have seen from the ambiguity around the Cimbri themselves, they too could be described as celtic.

But since these groups participated in the well-known cimbrian wars and were referred romans as germanii, I prefer Germans.

Although lets not let this hold up development: the name should be simple to change if a little labor intensive.

are we set on that face as the civ emblem? And using some geometry for the standard flag?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Cimbrians would be fine. The Teutons were just their sister tribe and the other 2 are Celts from the Alps who joined the invading population.

It's 4 centuries for a very large faction, I understand that this is the root to create more factions(german factions).

Then there may be the great Germanic confederations of the 1st century AD.

[Genava55]

7 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Its true that some of these allies are better described as gallic or celtic, but as we have seen from the ambiguity around the Cimbri themselves, they too could be described as celtic.

I understand, but it is more complicated than that. They had a language, a religion and particular customs. This is the important features to determine a cultural affiliation. If they are coming from Jutland, they are more probably Germanic or they were related to a sister-language who disappeared without letting any traces but with a common ancestor related to the Proto-Germanic language.

The issue is that the Cimbri wandering in Europe aggregated different peoples and we know some of them were Celtic (the Tigurini). For the Ambrones, it is uncertain, they gathered little interest and we don't know much about them. Strabo, Plutarch and Pliny generally said the Teutones were Germanic and came from the same area than the Cimbri.

18 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

But since these groups participated in the well-known cimbrian wars and were referred romans as germanii, I prefer Germans.

It is not the issue. It's just a fascinating effort you make to add to your difficulties and make things more complicated than they are. The Cimbri are not the most prominent of the Germanic people.

49 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Uhhh, this is not difficult to "grasp." Don't know what the implication here is. 

You're building a house of cards. With the Germans in general.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

15 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

You're building a house of cards. With the Germans in general.

Maybe not use histrionics when devising your criticisms. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Certainly not the most prominent but one of the earliest. Sure the teutons were likely similar, but we have units from the teutons in the civ and a certain leader called "teutobod" as a hero. So i think "Germans" is appropriately nonspecific.

@Genava55 What do you think the name should be? I haven't seen your proposition, only critiques.

Maybe "Crimbrian Alliance"

Edited 21 hours ago by real_tabasco_sauce