Civ: Germans (Cimbri, Suebians, Goths)

[real_tabasco_sauce]

skipa is used in game, but the file uses knarvi

[real_tabasco_sauce]

ok i think ideally, the scout ship can be modeled directly off of the hjorspring boat, this will be a nice touch. then for the larger version, the arrow ship, we can take inspiration from the many petroglyphs showing some ships, like a larger hjorsping style ship. @nifa @wowgetoffyourcellphone i beg u this would be so cool 

There are a lot of diverse petroglyphs, with some showing some beautifully curved beams both at the front and back. im not sure what that round thing could be, maybe a shield? We could maybe justify putting 1 or 2 shields for cladding at the front, not the full rows like the current ships have. Its a logical place to carry them, after all.

@Genava55 this paper does some interesting analysis and interpretation of petroglyphs. They argue that the larger notches on some glyphs might be masts instead of crewmen. They argue that sails could have been used, but its not really conclusive evidence.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00293652.2024.2357135

[Genava55]

20 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

They argue that the larger notches on some glyphs might be masts instead of crewmen. They argue that sails could have been used, but its not really conclusive evidence.

Yes I know, I debated with some people about this paper. The problem is that the use of sail should have triggered a major change and become widespread. As was the case during the Viking era, when all large ships eventually had a mast and a sail. It's very likely that even if sailing was known to Bronze Age populations, it didn't arouse the same interest. Perhaps they preferred to navigate rivers and coastlines. Not to mention the fact that having a mast and a sail required building ships that were a little wider. Which could make them less transportable on land.

[Genava55]

44 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

im not sure what that round thing could be, maybe a shield?

More probably a religious symbol. I don't know how plausible this could be they fixed shields on the side. It is certain the vikings and normans did it* but I don't know if the older shields from the Iron Age could be tied in the same manner. Maybe. Adding those would not be an issue.

*https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/66056/did-viking-longboats-in-fact-have-shields-on-the-side-of-the-ships

44 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

There are a lot of diverse petroglyphs, with some showing some beautifully curved beams both at the front and back.

Yes it is plausible. At least I know the Celts did have such carved animal on the stems of some of their ships:

Spoiler

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Genava55

[Obskiuras]

https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/germanic-ancient-boat-max-free/589931

I found this example of germanic boat, in the page is a lot of photos

[Genava55]

5 minutes ago, Obskiuras said:

https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/germanic-ancient-boat-max-free/589931

I found this example of germanic boat, in the page is a lot of photos

Yes, it looks good, that's similar to the miniature replica in the museum:

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Genava55

[Obskiuras]

1 minute ago, Genava55 said:

Yes, it looks good, that's similar to the miniature replica in the museum:

 

Can we use it in the game? may be we could but some paint and shields on the front.

[Genava55]

2 minutes ago, Obskiuras said:

Can we use it in the game? may be we could but some paint and shields on the front.

I don't think so...

https://blog.turbosquid.com/turbosquid-3d-model-license/#Games-Usage

Quote

If you are redistributing something that includes actual 3D Model files, the 3D Model files must be incorporated into a larger creation and not in an open format that others can be downloaded. Most game engines, such as Unity and Unreal, handle this automatically. In general, to prevent your end-users from obtaining TurboSquid 3D Models, you should use proprietary formats that cannot be extracted, exported, or decompiled without reverse engineering.

 

[Obskiuras]

8 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

I don't think so...

https://blog.turbosquid.com/turbosquid-3d-model-license/#Games-Usage

 

So you have to do it from scratch.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

The problem is that the use of sail should have triggered a major change and become widespread.

Is that the problem? Their argument is that sails were implemented as a supplemental propulsion and that rowing remained the primary source of propulsion. Certainly the technological challenge would have prevented more effective rigging systems to arise.

Sail or no sail, there will need to be some distinguishing features of the larger arrow ship. My thoughts are: a couple shields near to the bow, a curved upper beam at the bow (compared to the H boat which is about parallel), and a straight lower beam at the bow.

 

maybe the trade ship can repurpose the existing scout ship, removing the sail, shields, and adding some barrels.

[Lopess]

1 hour ago, Obskiuras said:

Can we use it in the game? may be we could but some paint and shields on the front.

It seems to be a simple model, even more so using this reference model and the texture of the northern boat.

[Genava55]

31 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Is that the problem? Their argument is that sails were implemented as a supplemental propulsion and that rowing remained the primary source of propulsion. Certainly the technological challenge would have prevented more effective rigging systems to arise.

I'm no specialist, but it seems to me that it's extremely difficult to do both at the same time. Sail is not viewed as a supplemental propulsion, it is something used for long distance.

My personal opinion is that Bronze Age and Iron Age warriors favored the mobility and portability of boats. It should not be forgotten that there are no indications that they had ports of any significant size.

38 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

maybe the trade ship can repurpose the existing scout ship, removing the sail, shields, and adding some barrels.

Maybe we can make an exception for the merchant ship, since it is a case really inappropriate for rowers.

39 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Sail or no sail, there will need to be some distinguishing features of the larger arrow ship.

Maybe decorations or stempost size? Here a few ideas (the outrigger is maybe a bit excessive but why not):

[Genava55]

Nydam boat also had a carved wooden beam:

https://www.bricksite.com/nydam/nydam-boats

https://boudicca.de/the-nydam-boat/