[resolved] Request for more information regarding ban from the lobby.

[cloud9]

All I know is the fact that I was banned from the lobby. Just posting here to clarify the reason. I guess a mod could have done it being unaware of the fate of the previous lobby account which had been unused for a while. (I can't use that account anymore due to server restrictions.)

Apologies for the false alarm. It was an accidental reverting of the config file. Which leads to a more understandable conclusion as I was banned from arena23 for a valid reason. (Multiaccount)

Thanks for the quick answers regardless.

Edited February 6, 2019 by cloud9

[Stan`]

4 minutes ago, cloud9 said:

All I know is the fact that I was banned from the lobby. Just posting here to clarify the reason. I guess a mod could have done it being unaware of the fate of the previous lobby account which had been unused for a while. (I can't use that account anymore due to server restrictions.)

The lobby was down for some time today I believe, did you retry to join ?

@user1 @elexis @Hannibal_Barca

[Hannibal_Barca]

cloud9 was banned from the lobby with the reason of "unpermitted N'th account"

based on the banreason format I would guess @elexis

And you were rightly banned

Edited February 6, 2019 by Hannibal_Barca

[elexis]

But why is the duplicate forum account not banned?

[cloud9]

Why exactly do you have to be using a single nick all the time on an online community? You cant be a smurf if you dont hide it.

But do go ahead if you think thats the best move forward.

Edited February 8, 2019 by cloud9

[elexis]

How does anyone other than me, let alone everybody know who you actually are?

[Stan`]

As far as I know you are free to use different accounts between trac, phab, lobby, forums, irc, as long as they are unique. There would be no reason for us to link them all together. You are also free to change your username on the forums, if you don't want to hide the fact that you changed it. This way you don't need two accounts. You only have to ask feneur for instance.

[cloud9]

1 hour ago, elexis said:

How does anyone other than me, let alone everybody know who you actually are?

That should be my choice, no?

[elexis]

Your legal person doesn't concern anyone unless you became criminally active on our online platform. Otherwise we only care about your IP address and whether that uses our service in violation of the terms of service. The service is rejected to users that violate the terms. Notice that you know all of that already because you have commented about all of that stuff with your other online account on phabricator and the lobby, and probably irc too.

That about the legal side. About the moral part: If you actually "don't hide" that you are smiley, then why are you arguing for registering as many accounts as you desire?

Chanigng nicknames because they are more interesting is not covered by the terms and imply the problem that people lose the ability to ban you from their matches, lose the ability to leave matches when they see you are there too, or correspondingly stop responding to your forum output. An account enables accountability, removing accounts removes accountability. Pretending to people who you have become very familiar with after countless hours of game sessions and partnership in code projects, for, it must have been years, to be a  a total stranger is joining the discussion under false pretenses.

On 2/6/2019 at 5:36 PM, cloud9 said:

Apologies for the false alarm. It was an accidental reverting of the config file. Which leads to a more understandable conclusion as I was banned from arena23 for a valid reason. (Multiaccount) 

I can't keep track of how often you have intentionally posted profanity in order to become muted, changed your nickname after we kicked you many times already and how often we banned your multiple smurf accounts and your original account temporarily. Last time I logged into the lobby I only saw you shouting "why the @#$% am I not muted". Saying that you don't understand the rules and that it was unintentional is something that works the first 5-10 times, but at some point I cannot take this as honest and good faith anymore. We just had the same discussion about your "accidentally lost" lobby account password last week already with at least two other lobby accounts. Given that you have bragged on the lobby that you have intentionally changed your phabricator password so that you lose access makes me doubt whether your lobby password loss was an accident. But in case that you have created the cloud9 forum account because you merely lost your forum password: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/lostpassword/.

[cloud9]

I got muted for profanity 5 times by my reckoning (One of those won’t count). Happens to the best of us. Including yourself at least once.

I did lose the password of my original account. I dont know how often I said that if I lose my hash I would not be able to login anymore. Goes back at least a few months.

Regarding "/nick" and the subsequent "/kick", well I had that one coming.

I have played with probably 15-ish people on a regular basis. I am not gonna pretend being a stranger to them.

I feel like I am just adding fuel to fire. Which would probably end up with someone getting burned. So, I would just stop this discussion since nothing good would come out of this.

[Rolf Dew]

Guys I am not talking about anyone in particular, but I think this is kind of turning into a personal argument and I feel that isn't appropiate in my opinion. 

[Servo]

I don’t think it’s bad to have couple of accounts in the lobby as long as you don’t abuse it. I was requesting help to have another account so that if I have visitors or gamer relatives whom I can play in the same house to no avail. Though recently I found a way to have a new one and I’m using it so those who would like to play but can’t because no one wants to play then I come in and have fun. I could also fill up some vacant slots so a team game can proceed and balancing my little skill so that game can be a bit fun. I know it’s annoying for others not knowing who you are but I try to work around it just to have fun.

There is a drawback too because if you use that “smurf” account you could hardly play with the higher level/competitive ones and/or fill up a vacant slot because they can’t recognize you and your level of skills to have a better balance. 

I think I can pretty much adapt to multiple situations and promise that I shall not abuse it. But getting banned is not really good to decent and not so bad attitude gamers.

 

[Stan`]

Well getting banned for using multiple accounts for only one physical person is because you are breaking the rules you agreed to in the first place. Everyone is free to create their own lobby and host it somewhere else

[cloud9]

(I wonder if I ever was a "decent" gamer with a not so bad attitude. (Before I spoke my mind about certain things of course))

Edited February 15, 2019 by cloud9

[Servo]

Very few players or even normal people read terms or rules. In most transactions I may be stupid not to read those but I can guarantee they will just click on it and go ahead. And to say that 0ad is more special that you have to read everything before you play than your regular online transaction is nonsense. 

The game is in development and you have to balance things so info could disseminate as well as keep more people active into it. If you don’t have that little flexibility I don’t think it’s going to be beneficial. It seems like because people aren’t being forced to play and work on the game is voluntary  the devs couldn’t care less at all. I don’t think that is the kind of attitude that must be maintained here. Well I love the game but I wouldn’t care at all being banned in the lobby where most people have different attitudes as there is a single player games or other games.

I wonder what fork can offer. 

Well cloud9 idk who you are...can’t tell.

[cloud9]

Like I said, I am not trying to hide my identity.

Maybe you are familiar with a certain smiley.

[Servo]

Ohhh well! (__)! Hard to believe it’s you. Well I don’t want to say anything except that I saw Blue  too. 

I don’t want to say much but I’ve noticed different attitudes of lots of people from all over the net. Idk if it’s dominant type of mentality some people are showing and I did not encounter much on my other net participation before. Idk maybe language barrier or it’s really the mentality/attitude.  

Me out.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Servo

[elexis]

22 hours ago, cloud9 said:

Like I said, I am not trying to hide my identity.

Then use the account that people know you under.

[cloud9]

I assume that implies the forum account. I never changed my lobby account. Although, I wonder what that would change?

But since having another account is considered so bad, fine.

[elexis]

Use cases for accounts:

• Accountability before WFG: Being able to enforce terms of service by rejecting the service to users that violate the terms.
• Accountability before the community: You stand by the history of your posts. To allow others to seek you out or avoid you, they are able to recognize you by the nickname that is displayed. They shouldn't have to conclude from the forum post content, let alone stray forum posts from years ago.

Examples:

• People who look through past forum or phabricator messages and have a question to the author of messages or patches are actually able to find the author under that nickname.
• People don't try to inform you of things they have already informed you before.
• For example the GettingStarted bit was the first thing people send to you, but you have have a long Phabricator history, so the people were mislead by the new account.
• If someone would create a new account on Phabricator, one would repeat all the newcomer stories on coding conventions and codebase explanations from scratch instead of  recalling what that one already knows or doesn't know.

Use cases for uniqueness of accounts:

• By definition of the account: The defined purpose of the nickname field is to indicate the author of the message. Two different names are supposed to identify two different people. If people are permitted a second account for testing software, the nicknames should be similar, for example "user" and "user-testing". If we don't want that but a forum where noone knows who everyone else is, it would have to be built into the software, similar to 4chan, so that people have no false expectations of what an account means.
• Missing practicality: Even if you post in your forum posts that this is your second account, it is unfeasible as a general rule. For example servo didn't get that you are smiley although it was stated explicitly. Sending a personal message to every community member and writing it in every forum post costs a lot of time and space while the nickname field still displays you as a different natural person and people don't get it. Imagine everyone would have 3-4 fun accounts. People would not be able to keep track of who is who anymore. While this 'not hiding the identity' model works when 99% of the users stick to the rule and 1% exempts itself from the rule, it surely wouldn't work anymore if the other 99% exempt themselves too.

On 2/15/2019 at 2:06 PM, Servo said:

I don’t think it’s bad to have couple of accounts in the lobby as long as you don’t abuse it. I was requesting help to have another account so that if I have visitors or gamer relatives whom I can play in the same house to no avail.

Visitors in the same house are different persons that should have their own account. That's not the same as having two accounts for your own. If there is a technical reason to have two accounts, for example one for permitted lurking and one for playing, or a secondary account to test a bug in the development lobby. But in these cases, it should be accountname1 and accountname2, so that it is clear who the owner is (which is also the reason why we are ok with (-_-) using the smiley accountname on the lobby, but not the cloud9 one).

The same is true for all the other people on the lobby or forums, high profile or not, who create smurf accounts. Creating a new nickname so that people assume you are a different person is behavior that we used to see from people who solely join the community to enjoy playing and harassing others, but not from people who have worked hand in hand for years on the project.

56 minutes ago, cloud9 said:

fine

So thanks if that is the case. I don't like being in a trilemma situation as a moderator where I either have to abandon the no-smurfing rule, ban or stop moderating.

By the way game companies (like Blizzard if I recall correctly) counter smurfing by new accounts not being able to participate in chat or rated games until they gained a reputation and having account creation cost money (instead of moderation afaik).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, elexis said:

So thanks if that is the case. I don't like being in a trilemma situation as a moderator where I either have to abandon the no-smurfing rule, ban or stop moderating.

Is. As fun as that was, it quickly devolved in to this particular discussion. I guess if I ever to post something meaningful here, it had to stop sometime.

It was fun while it lasted. (Pre feb2)