More Units for Roman Republic

[Silly Cat]

Hello,

After playing as the Roman Republic and then the Greek cultures, the Successors, and Persians I felt there was a lack in troop variety for the Romans. To start I think the Roman Republic should have a slinger unit. Use of slings was fairly common across the Mediterranean including Italy. Right now I feel they are lacking a good longer ranged defensive missile unit and the Velite really doesn't cut it for me in static defensive situations. Javelin armed skirmishers are meant to be more aggressive and annoying to tempt enemies to break formation and pursue them to their peril.

Also, I think it would be neat if the Roman Republic had an alae system. Perhaps this can be reflected with an alae barracks or camp that allows them to select one of an allies elite units to train at a greater cost. The ability to train these elite units should go away if the alliance is broken or gained when an alliance is made. Or maybe just expand the types of non-Roman Italic troops they can train. Maybe Lucanian hoplites, Campanian cavalry, Etruscan axe men to list a few.

Anyways, I love the game so far and look forward to its continued growth.

Silly Cat

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The Republican Romans here are during the 2nd Punic War, so if you can find references for allied or mercenary units the Romans used in this time period and we can see what we can do.

[Genava55]

If people are interested in the subject, here a few helpful documents:

Jonathan R. W. Prag: Troops and commanders: auxilia externa under the Roman Republic

https://www.unipa.it/dipartimenti/cultureesocieta/riviste/hormos/.content/documenti_Hormos_2/J.PragTroops_and_commandersHormos2_2010_101-113.pdf

Joëlle Napoli: Rome et le recrutement de mercenaires

https://journals.openedition.org/rha/pdf/7055

La République romaine et le mercenariat au temps des Guerres Puniques

https://journals.openedition.org/mcv/pdf/3892

Jonathan James McLaughlin: The Transformation of the Roman Auxiliary Soldier in Thought and Practice

https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/111635/jjmcl_1.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Salvador Busquets Artigas: Los externa auxilia en el siglo final de la República romana (133-27 a. C.)

https://ddd.uab.cat/pub/tesis/2015/hdl_10803_285743/sba1de1.pdf

The only clear account during the Punic wars are the Celtiberians used successfully by P. Cornelius Scipion in 211 BC. There is also the Cretans archers during the battle of Trasimene in 217 BC. There is also 2000 Ligurians, Cretans and Numidians called auxilia in 171 BC under Publius Licinius Crassus. But the Treaty of Apamea is an example of political restriction of the mercenaries use in 188 BC.

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Genava55

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 hours ago, Genava55 said:

The only clear account during the Punic wars are the Celtiberians used successfully by P. Cornelius Scipion in 211 BC. There is also the Cretans archers during the battle of Trasimene in 217 BC. There is also 2000 Ligurians, Cretans and Numidians called auxilia in 171 BC under Publius Licinius Crassus. But the Treaty of Apamea is an example of political restriction of the mercenaries use in 188 BC.

 

how they look like, Roman fashion or Hellenistic?

[Genava55]

9 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

how they look like, Roman fashion or Hellenistic?

Probably like mercenaries in general (then Hellenistic like). The standardization of auxiliaries units started mostly with Augustus (Octavius) but its premises where already in place during the Social troubles period (Gracchi, Jugurthine, Sulla, Triumvirates, Civil wars). For example there is many examples of Gallic auxiliaries since the first conquest of Gaul (Narbonnensis) but they keep mostly their native weapons, they only incorporate some pieces of roman equipment. It is only under Augustus that they started to use almost exclusively roman equipment, probably a reform established between 16 to 9 BC.

[Collette]

Quote

Probably works with Surfshark VPN and like mercenaries in general (then Hellenistic like). The standardization of auxiliaries units started mostly with Augustus (Octavius) but its premises where already in place during the Social troubles period (Gracchi, Jugurthine, Sulla, Triumvirates, Civil wars). For example there is many examples of Gallic auxiliaries since the first conquest of Gaul (Narbonnensis) but they keep mostly their native weapons, they only incorporate some pieces of roman equipment. It is only under Augustus that they started to use almost exclusively roman equipment, probably a reform established between 16 to 9 BC.

How much creative freedom is allowed when the info is somewhat vague like that? Or am I off-base there and that's not considered vague at all?

Edited May 21, 2022 by Collette

[Genava55]

25 minutes ago, Collette said:

How much creative freedom is allowed when the info is somewhat vague like that? Or am I off-base there and that's not considered vague at all?

It is very vague indeed but with a historical background you can imagine what happens. They are either mercenaries or lend-troops from allies/vassals/defeated cities, they have simply the weapons of their nations. 

[Altrine]

If the Roman's are of the time of Second Punic Wars use of Slingers I suppose ( As I know)  is not to be heard but Skirmishers are better anyway for Romans as the infantry of them are good anyways. It would just make them the best Civ 

[Genava55]

6 minutes ago, Altrine said:

If the Roman's are of the time of Second Punic Wars use of Slingers I suppose ( As I know)  is not to be heard but Skirmishers are better anyway for Romans as the infantry of them are good anyways. It would just make them the best Civ  

I gave only historical references where we can cherry-pick to justify gameplay adjustment. 

Personally I would prefer something with the Marian reform and maybe giving an option for the Romans to unlock regional units when they capture their CC. Celtic cavalry and Celtic spearmen when they capture a Gallic or Britonic CC. Numidian light-cavalry and War Elephants when they capture Carthaginian CC. etc.

[Servo]

I like to play the Romans because their structures are very nice but two things that hold me back from choosing it on SP games are no archers and I don’t like the champ swordsman look. DE has very nice Roman units though and gameplay except that it’s good only for MP games. The reason is that the AI on most mods cease on building up huge armies to attack. Maybe I will try to put the (enemy) AI on aggressiveness and see what happens. 

I need archers to man their beautiful walls...

Edited October 12, 2018 by Servo

[thankforpie]

romans are at the moment one of strongest civs, basically macedonians with all that siege +better heroes. i dont think giving them more power is good idea

[Imperator Ferrum Princeps I]

Although I am all for new Roman units, my main concern is many people already think the Romans are OP as is, though if done with care in a balanced way this could be a cool idea.

[Servo]

To make them not more OP while adding units like archers they have to make it more costly! If they want to add slingers assuming they use some of them historically then just put it in and cost more even doubling it just to add flavor to assortments. This will benefit SP players!