Iberians, Celtiberians, Lusitans, --reference---

[Genava55]

The brutal massacre of the Iberian town of La Hoya

https://historia.nationalgeographic.com.es/a/brutal-masacre-poblado-iberico-hoya_15725

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fhistoria.nationalgeographic.com.es%2Fa%2Fbrutal-masacre-poblado-iberico-hoya_15725&sandbox=1

A study carried out by Spanish and British researchers on the discovered human remains of the inhabitants of this Iberian site located in Álava sheds new light on how they died: brutally murdered.

An atrocious attack on an Iron Age city in northern Spain in the mid-4th or late 3rd century BC left more than a dozen corpses of men, women, and children strewn in the streets as the city burned. The injuries inflicted on the people who died there were horrible. One individual was beheaded, two had their arms severed and nearly half of the remains showed signs of mutilation, archaeologists studying the area have recently discovered. Now, a new study of the victims' bones, the first detailed investigation of their injuries, led by researcher Teresa Fernández-Crespo, of the University of Oxford, and published by the journal Antiquity, suggests they were killed by a neighboring community during a calculated takeover or act of revenge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Hoya,_Alava

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Genava55

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 8/19/2020 at 3:41 AM, Genava55 said:

https://www.despertaferro-ediciones.com/2020/la-mujer-como-depositaria-de-la-memoria-social-en-la-hispania-prerromana/

Great reference here:

 

 

[Mosé]

On 08/01/2020 at 7:18 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

https://elgrancapitan.org/foro/viewtopic.php?p=741977

Isn't real, pure fantasy romanticise of history. A romantic concept from the ancestors.

Is from XIX century illustration.

From:

"Album de la Infanteria Española : desde sus primitivos tiempos hasta el día (1861) - Soto, Serafín María de , Conde de Clonard, 1793-1862 "

Buenas a todos, desconozco si el tema de la moneda de Publio Carisio y el peculiar yelmo con facial está zanjado ya; pero bueno, me gustaría aportar algunas fuentes de información por si fuesen de utilidad.

En este artículo académico sobre numismática (especialmente sobre la ceca de Emérita Augusta) se relaciona (en la página 37) ese facial como algo eminentemente romano:

Emerita Augusta y sus imágenes monetales I - Dialnet (unirioja.es)

En el artículo del siguiente blog (llevado por dos arqueólogos), se ahonda más en el tema; explicando el verdadero origen de la moneda (es cierto que Publio Carisio era gobernador de la Lusitania, pero en realidad la moneda está relacionada con la toma de Lancia y la derrota de los últimos reductos de resistencia astur-cántabra en el contexto de esta conocida guerra; por lo tanto, la panoplia mostrada se asociaría más bien con estos; o bien con los vencedores, según lo planteado en el anterior artículo) y dando una hipótesis interpretativa diferente (lo relacionan con los cascos hispano-calcídicos, propios de los celtíberos):

Proyecto Mauranus: Casco, hacha y puñal: la panoplia de un jefe astur en una moneda de Carisio

Intentaré buscar más al respecto si fuese necesario, espero que sea de utilidad. Desgraciadamente, no he sido capaz de encontrar nada en inglés, sólo en español.

Un saludo.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Interesante si alguien puede sacar alguna transcripción de este

interesting if someone can get a transcript of this,It is a geostrategic political economic and social analysis of the Hispanic rebellion against the Romans, from the perspective of 21st century versus ancient world view.

https://youtu.be/j2Mq-T7FEek What I like about this series is explaining to modern audiences how different the Iberian tribes were, even on a psychological level, As if it were, a kind of editorial of a news.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

@Mosé gracias.

[Genava55]

43 minutes ago, Mosé said:

Buenas a todos, desconozco si el tema de la moneda de Publio Carisio y el peculiar yelmo con facial está zanjado ya; pero bueno, me gustaría aportar algunas fuentes de información por si fuesen de utilidad.

En este artículo académico sobre numismática (especialmente sobre la ceca de Emérita Augusta) se relaciona (en la página 37) ese facial como algo eminentemente romano:

Emerita Augusta y sus imágenes monetales I - Dialnet (unirioja.es)

En el artículo del siguiente blog (llevado por dos arqueólogos), se ahonda más en el tema; explicando el verdadero origen de la moneda (es cierto que Publio Carisio era gobernador de la Lusitania, pero en realidad la moneda está relacionada con la toma de Lancia y la derrota de los últimos reductos de resistencia astur-cántabra en el contexto de esta conocida guerra; por lo tanto, la panoplia mostrada se asociaría más bien con estos; o bien con los vencedores, según lo planteado en el anterior artículo) y dando una hipótesis interpretativa diferente (lo relacionan con los cascos hispano-calcídicos, propios de los celtíberos):

Proyecto Mauranus: Casco, hacha y puñal: la panoplia de un jefe astur en una moneda de Carisio

Intentaré buscar más al respecto si fuese necesario, espero que sea de utilidad. Desgraciadamente, no he sido capaz de encontrar nada en inglés, sólo en español.

Un saludo.

The topic is nearly the same with early Gallo-Roman monuments where we can find masked helmets alongside Gallic stuff (but also Roman stuff):

 

Although it is really difficult at that time to assess if the representation are natives or Romans.

 

Quote

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kmWvmXyEzO0/U-dEk06vKBI/AAAAAAAABvQ/-94Flktl4a4/s1600/Casco+moneda+Carisio+comparativa.jpg 

Actually this uprising brow is something you would observe on Italic and Hellenistic helmets.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Genava55

[Mosé]

On 04/03/2021 at 9:55 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

@Mosé gracias.

Encantado de ayudar.

On 04/03/2021 at 9:58 PM, Genava55 said:

The topic is nearly the same with early Gallo-Roman monuments where we can find masked helmets alongside Gallic stuff (but also Roman stuff):

 

Although it is really difficult at that time to assess if the representation are natives or Romans.

 

Actually this uprising brow is something you would observe on Italic and Hellenistic helmets.

 

 

Yeah, I have shown those two sources because trough them we can see the ambiguity of this kind of reliefs. In reality, the helmets "hispano-calcídicos" of the celtiberians could blend very well with those helmets: as the name "calcídico" suggests in spanish, they have a strong chalcidian influence, they could even be classified as a local "variant" of the chalcidian type (their similarities are evident).

BUT, of course, it is not the only suspect. The coin may be representing an italic or roman helmet, with or without a mask, who knows. 

The fact of considering the representation as a local helmet (from the astures or the cantabri) comes from some studies that are based on the commemorative character of the coins. As these coins shown a roman victory, they have to represent the panoply of the vanquished (astures and cantabri). 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sUnDqo0h_RA/U-dKHO19CrI/AAAAAAAABvo/jqn2kdM4ABg/s1600/Monedas+Carisio+hachas.jpgimage taken from: Proyecto Mauranus: Casco, hacha y puñal: la panoplia de un jefe astur en una moneda de Carisio

These ideas mostly come from two different sides: a wrong belief (the wild idea that the romans intended to make an accurate representation of the armament) and the representation of a "singular" weapon (the double-bitted axe, not as singular as you might think).

Why is the axe not so unique ? Well, because it looks like the typical  labrys  (or bipennis if you prefer latin). BUT, again, there is more about this.

In the number 45 of the magazine Desperta ferro, "Las Guerras Astur-Cántabras" ("Astur-Cantabrian wars" in english) the historians Jesús Francisco Torres-Martínez and Eduardo José Peralta Labrador analyze this topic on their article "Los últimos hispanos frente a Roma"(in the page 20 to be exact). they quote a paragraph  from the epic poem Punica by Silius Italicus:

"This was a Cantabrian, Larus by name, who could have inspired fear even unarmed; so gigantic was his frame. After the fashion of his nation he fought with a battle-axe; and, though he saw the ranks around him defeated and overthrown, yet, when all his countrymen were destroyed, he filled single-handed the places of the slain. If his foe stood face to face, Larus rejoiced to glut his rage by smiting him on the forehead; or, if he was forced to meet an enemy on his left hand, he whirled his weapon round and struck a sidelong blow. Or when a victorius foe attacked him from behind, he was not dismayed but could ply his axe in that direction" (Silius Italicus, Punica XVI, 46-69: Punica : Silius Italicus, Tiberius Catius : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive). 

Furthermore, they compare the paragraph with our coin and an axe shard found in Pisoraca (Herrera de Pisuerga, Palencia) that seems to be a bipennem. The labrys (mainly with ritual uses) aren`t strange in the pre-Roman archaeological context of the Iberian Peninsula. It seems that the Astures and Cantabri could use axes (of different shapes) as a weapon, which was not so common in the Peninsula (but with simpler axes, not with the double faced ones)

The romans may have used the axe in the coin as a representation of the defeated Astures and Cantabri (they did something similar with the falcata and the iberians). The real confusion comes from including the helmet in this (the dagger is ambiguous too, and the elements can be mixed with roman ones; as you suggest, that is something relatively common). 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Mosé

[Genava55]

5 minutes ago, Mosé said:

The fact of considering the representation as a local helmet (from the astures or the cantabri) comes from some studies that are based on the commemorative character of the coins. As these coins shown a roman victory, they have to represent the panoply of the vanquished (astures and cantabri). 

Which is actually much much much much more complicated when you know the context of Gallo-Roman trophees. It could be. But natives used Roman stuff HEAVILY, this makes everything difficult and Romans don't build tropaion for their enemies but for themselves, for a Roman leader generally. So it could mix a lot of things together. 

[Genava55]

For example in the case of the Cantabrian wars:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270465249_Augustan_triumphal_iconography_and_the_Cantabrian_Wars_Some_remarks_on_round_shields_and_spearheads_depicted_on_monuments_from_the_Iberian_Peninsula_and_Italy

Quote

Together with caetra, falcata, pugio and possibly other weapons, it could have been taken as a symbol of the victories over Cantabri and Astures, thanks also to the typical inexactitude of ancient Ethnology, that, for instance, allowed a Gallic trumpet (carnyx) to be depicted on a trophy of another Carisius emission, in a perspective that saw perhaps the Cantabri as “relatives” of the Gauls (Trillmich 1990, 300).

 

[Genava55]

57 minutes ago, Mosé said:

A reconstruction of an astur warrior with that type of axe by Pablo Outeiral (extracted from: " Guerrero astur " siglo I a.C. ( Pablo Outeiral ) | Flickr. This picture also appeared in the page 26 of the number 45 of the magazine Desperta Ferro, inside of the article "La guerra contra los astures" by Jorge Camino Mayor, as you can see in the online index: Las Guerras Astur-Cántabras - Desperta Ferro Antigua y Medieval n.º 45 (despertaferro-ediciones.com) 

A question, is this kind of axe found in archaeological context from Cantabria or Asturia? Because I have only seen simple axeheads found.

[Mosé]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

For example in the case of the Cantabrian wars:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270465249_Augustan_triumphal_iconography_and_the_Cantabrian_Wars_Some_remarks_on_round_shields_and_spearheads_depicted_on_monuments_from_the_Iberian_Peninsula_and_Italy

 

Yes, as I say; it is a misconception. We don't know enough to catalog the helmet. In the case of the dagger, there are a lot of archaelogical material similar to the ones that this article analyzes (varied in the case of the pommels, but with many morphological  similarities, specially if we talk about the scabbards):

61540305.pdf (core.ac.uk)

[Mosé]

4 hours ago, Genava55 said:

A question, is this kind of axe found in archaeological context from Cantabria or Asturia? Because I have only seen simple axeheads found.

I only know that example, but yes, is from that context. Pisoraca is located in an area  under the influence of various pre-roman groups (including the turmogi, the vaccei) but the sources and the archalogical studies evidence that there is a cantabrian presence. In this article from the repository of Dialnet (from the university of la Rioja) is very well synthesized the history of the settlement (specially in the first pages): 

Pisoraca: Desde sus orígenes a los visigodos - Dialnet (unirioja.es)

About the axe, I only know one image; the one that is showed in the article "Los últimos hispanos frente a Roma" by Jesús Francisco Torres-Martínez and Eduardo Jose Labrador (appeared in the number 45 of Desperta Ferro).  I am not sure if I can share a photo of the page made by me (due to copyright), I  will contact the publisher and see what I can do and what not. But don't worry, it is not the only source. In the page 87 of the article "La arqueología de la Edad de Hierro de Cantabria: una breve síntesis" (from the book "Cántabros: origen de un pueblo") by Rafael Bolado del Castillo et al. this is explained:

"Of all the weapons, the most popularly known today is the double-edged axe, the bipenne with which Laro faced the Romans in the account of Silio Italicus. Interestingly, his fame is inversely proportional to its archaelogical documentation. Together with the well-known classic quotation, the evidences of its existence are reduced, again, to the iconography of the coins. of Carisio and a small specimen in my miniature, votive type, found in Herrera de Pisuerga (Palencia). On the contrary, axes are common single-edged, such as those of Las Rabas, Monte Bernorio or Caravia, related, due to their polyvalence, to both woodworking and warfare".

I have translated the paragraph myself. The original in spanish say this:

"De entre todas las armas, la más conocida a nivel popular hoy en día es el hacha de doble filo, la bipenne con la que Laro hizo frente a los romanos en el relato de Silio Itálico. Curiosamente, su fama es inversamente proporcional a su documentación arqueológica. Junto a la consabida cita clásica, las evidencias de su existencia se reducen, nuevamente, a la iconografía de las monedas de Carisio y a un pequeño ejemplar en miniatura, de tipo votivo, hallado en Herrera de Pisuerga (Palencia). Por el contrario, sí son habituales las hachas de un solo filo, como las de Las Rabas, Monte Bernorio o Caravia, relacionadas, por su polivalencia, tanto con el trabajo de la madera como con la guerra".

The original can be consulted here: (1) (PDF) La Arqueología de la Edad del Hierro en Cantabria: una breve síntesis. | Rafael Bolado del Castillo - Academia.edu

It is noticed that Rafael Bolado qualify the axe as a "miniature". So strange, if it is a miniature, we will probably haven't a  bipennem axe, but a votive pendant or something like that (they appear quite frequently). The reconstruction of Pablo Outeiral is based on the works of Jesús Francisco-Torres Martínez and Eduardo José Peralta Labrador, if they have misinterpreted the sources, the good reputation of these specialists and the magazine is compromised. Very weird in the case of an academic article.

In the absence of more sources, I should doubt about  the existence of this type of axe. Probably only the simplest ones (with only one face) are used with war purposes.

It seems that Desperta Ferro failed this time. My apologies.  

Edited March 9, 2021 by Mosé

[Genava55]

9 hours ago, Mosé said:

"Of all the weapons, the most popularly known today is the double-edged axe, the bipenne with which Laro faced the Romans in the account of Silio Italicus. Interestingly, his fame is inversely proportional to its archaelogical documentation. Together with the well-known classic quotation, the evidences of its existence are reduced, again, to the iconography of the coins. of Carisio and a small specimen in my miniature, votive type, found in Herrera de Pisuerga (Palencia). On the contrary, axes are common single-edged, such as those of Las Rabas, Monte Bernorio or Caravia, related, due to their polyvalence, to both woodworking and warfare".

Yeah, to give a bit more context on the matter, the problem is more general with the bipennis, not only related to the Cantabrians. Silus Italicus is not the most reliable author and the bipennis itself is a well-known artistic figure in Roman poetry. Furthermore, the bipennis is also a big issue concerning the Franks and the Goths in literal descriptions, Romans and Christians authors describe those Germanic people fighting and throwing with bipennis axes. While it is 100% certain that it is wrong, the archaeological records clearly and indisputably shows exclusively single-headed axes.

The problem is also visible in Tacitus, Agricola, when he describes the shape of Britain. For him, it has the shape of a bipennis or of a scutula. This is really misleading because those are two different objects with different shapes.

On the matter, we must admit that ancient authors are particularly unreliable and unintelligent. Bipennis and securis are simply catch-all terms.

Personally on the matter, I see the double-headed axe as a very unpractical weapon. There is no benefit at all to a second blade for the battlefield. It simply increases the weight for nothing, and it is contrary to the general process observed in ALL cultures using dedicated battle-axes, which is to reduce the weight of the axehead to increase the balance.

This is why I am curious to see a real archaeological find of a plausible double-headed battle-axe, because if it is the case it should have a design much lighter than those generally depicted.

9 hours ago, Mosé said:

It is noticed that Rafael Bolado qualify the axe as a "miniature". So strange, if it is a miniature, we will probably haven't a  bipennem axe, but a votive pendant or something like that (they appear quite frequently). The reconstruction of Pablo Outeiral is based on the works of Jesús Francisco-Torres Martínez and Eduardo José Peralta Labrador,

Exactly, probably the same situation in Greek and Thracian cultures, where the Labrys is a religious tool (sacrifice) and a votive item.

The bipennis could be also items used by chieftains as authority symbols. We saw this trend in bronze age culture a bit everywhere in Europe.

Quote

if they have misinterpreted the sources, the good reputation of these specialists and the magazine is compromised. Very weird in the case of an academic article.

This is a bit the issue with wargaming culture and reenactment. We want to see differences and uniqueness. History is much more boring in the academic sphere than it is in the popular media.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Genava55

[Genava55]

By the way you seem to know a bit the topic, plus you are fluent in Spanish (probably your mother tongue). If you are interested you can suggest some rework for the Iberian faction and some addition for a possible new faction.

Maybe you noticed, but the current Iberian faction is a bit messy from a historical point of view. It is mixing on purpose features and items from the Iberian sphere and the Celtiberian sphere, plus a couple of features from neighboring material culture and even a character/hero.

I really find amazing that 0 A.D. is portraying such lesser known culture like the Iberian, but I am also sad it is ending in a patch-work of multiples cultures without clearly explaining to the player the differences. The Iberian Peninsula is a fascinating region with a lot of diversity. I don't think 0 A.D. could fit several factions from the Iberian peninsula but a second one could be acceptable and desirable.

Personally I see three important cultural group (or supracultural group): the Lusitanian, the Celtiberian and the Iberian.

I don't know really how to reduce it to only two factions. I suggested several ideas but I am not sure any of them is convincing, even for me:

 

[Mosé]

8 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Personally on the matter, I see the double-headed axe as a very unpractical weapon. There is no benefit at all to a second blade for the battlefield. It simply increases the weight for nothing, and it is contrary to the general process observed in ALL cultures using dedicated battle-axes, which is to reduce the weight of the axehead to increase the balance.

I totally agree with you on this. During my university studies I analyzed a lot of armament from the early middle ages; it is a different context, but similar observations can be made. For example, in these crhonologies there is even a clear difference between battle-axes and the ones used for wood. I doesn't take so much force to hurt people and a weapon must be manageable in relatively long periods of time.  

9 hours ago, Genava55 said:

This is a bit the issue with wargaming culture and reenactment. We want to see differences and uniqueness. History is much more boring in the academic sphere than it is in the popular media.

Yeah, totally true. But I never seen such a mistake (extreme misinterpretation of an archaeological source) in an article like this, redacted by two archaeologists with doctor's degree (there is always a first time for everything). At least we have discovered the truth behind it.

[Mosé]

42 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

By the way you seem to know a bit the topic, plus you are fluent in Spanish (probably your mother tongue). If you are interested you can suggest some rework for the Iberian faction and some addition for a possible new faction.

Maybe you noticed, but the current Iberian faction is a bit messy from a historical point of view. It is mixing on purpose features and items from the Iberian sphere and the Celtiberian sphere, plus a couple of features from neighboring material culture and even a character/hero.

I really find amazing that 0 A.D. is portraying such lesser known culture like the Iberian, but I am also sad it is ending in a patch-work of multiples cultures without clearly explaining to the player the differences. The Iberian Peninsula is a fascinating region with a lot of diversity. I don't think 0 A.D. could fit several factions from the Iberian peninsula but a second one could be acceptable and desirable.

Personally I see three important cultural group (or supracultural group): the Lusitanian, the Celtiberian and the Iberian.

I don't know really how to reduce it to only two factions. I suggested several ideas but I am not sure any of them is convincing, even for me:

 

Yes, I'm spanish. It will be a pleasure to help in everything that is necessary, of course (that's why we are here). Thank you. 

And yes, I really appreciate the effort because i know that the cultural "mess" is big in the pre-roman peninsula, but the faction could be improved. it is interesting what you suggest; I think it's a good idea to leave the Celtiberians and Iberians together (which would involve other "minor" peoples in their radius of influence such as the Basques and Turmogos) and create other faction with the lusitans and the groups of the north of the peninsula (Gallaeci, astures and cantabri). But of course there are many other possible solutions. 

I also think that more than two factions would be too much, as well as very difficult to document.

 

[Duileoga]

Buenas ;

Aquí les traigo posibles líderes(caudillos/régulos) íberos para la "ia"[inteligencia artificial];

1-Orisón;--------------------------(¿?)"Rey de los Oretanos" (263 a.c -222 a.c)
2-Edecón;-------------------------(Edesco)"Rey de los Edetanos" (209 a.c)
3-Indíbil;-------------------------(Indobeles )"Rey de los ilergetes"(Fechas; 258 a. C. - 205 a. C)
4-Mandonio;----------------------(¿?) "Régulo de los ausetanos "( fechas; 205a.c)
5-Budar;---------------------------(¿?)"Régulo íbero" en  revuelta íbera (197-195 a. C.)
6-Besadino;----------------------(Besadines)"Régulo íbero" en  revuelta íbera (197-195 a. C.)
7-Culcas;--------------------------(Culchas) "Rey íbero "revuelta íbera (197-195 a. C.)
8-Luxinio;-------------------------(¿?)"Régulo íbero" en  revuelta íbera (197-195 a. C.)

 

(Régulo ; General tribal íbero que era elegido por las asambleas de tribus  o ciudades íberas para encabezar una campaña militar o una defensa ante un invasor .Podía comandar a su tribu o ciudad o también encabezar una coalición de tribus y ciudades )

info en orden de aparición (1-8);

 

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orisón
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edecón
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indíbil
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandonio
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budar
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Besadino
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culcas
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxinio

 

Posibles unidades para héroes íberos;

1-Orisón.
2-Indíbil.
3-Mandonio.
 

 

Disculpe las molestias*

[Duileoga]

Buenas,

Y aquí líderes(caudillos/generales) Celtíberos para la "ia"[inteligencia artificial];

 

1-Olíndico;----------------- (Olónico) "Caudillo celtíbero"  (169 a. C.)
2-Caro de Segeda;---------(¿?) "jefe militar de la tribus celtíbera de los Belos"(153 a. C.)
3-Litenón;------------------(¿?) "Caudillo de Numancia "(152 a.c)
4-Ambon;------------------(¿?)"Caudillo de la tribu celtíbera de los Arévacos"
5-Leukon;-------------------(¿?)"Caudillo de la tribu celtíbera de los Arévacos"
6-Tangino;------------------(¿?)"Guerrero celtíbero que rompió el cerco de numancia"(141a.c)
7-Megara;-----------------(¿?)"Caudillo de Numancia "
8-Retógenes;-------------(Rectugenos)"Caudillo de la tribu celtíbera de los Arévacos"(133a.c)

 

info en orden de aparición (1-8);

 

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olíndico
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caro_de_Segeda
http://dbe.rah.es/biografias/22746/litennon
https://www.celticahispana.com/los-heroes-de-numancia/
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerras_celtíberas
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangino
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megara_(Numancia)
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retógenes_el_Caraunio

 

Posibles unidades para héroes íberos;

1-Caro de segeda.
2-Tangino.
3-Megara.

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

[Yekaterina]

Is there a need to put together this into a new Iberian civ? I didn't understand the majority of this thread because it is in Spanish but I see some sort of a structure tree being suggested here. 

On 01/10/2020 at 5:59 PM, Duileoga said:

Edificios comunes (15);

(Español);-----------------------------------------------(original)

 

1.Centro cívico;------------------------------------------( Trebopala)
2.casas;--------------------------------------------------(Trebo )
3.Almacén;-----------------------------------------------( ... )
4.Alquería;-----------------------------------------------( Treb harase )
5.Corral;-------------------------------------------------( ... )
                                1.Oveja;---------------(Oilam  )
                                2.Cerdo;---------------(Porcom )
                                3.Cabra;---------------( Comaiam )
                                4.Gallo;----------------(Kulyakos) 
                                5.Toro;----------------(Taurom  )
                                6.Vaca;----------------( Bandue )
                                7. Cordero ;----------(Angom)                   
                                
6.Torre de defensa ;----------------------------------------(... )
7.Cuartel;---------------------------------------------------( Treb coriam )
8.Herrería;--------------------------------------------------( ...)
9.Templo;---------------------------------------------------(Treb ailatio )
10.Muralla;--------------------------------------------------( ...) 
11.Huerto;--------------------------------------------------(Olca )
12.Mercado;------------------------------------------------( ... )
13.Puerto;--------------------------------------------------( ...)
14.Fortaleza;-----------------------------------------------(Briga )
15.Torreta de defensa;--------------------------------------(...)

Puerta;----------------------------------------------------(Gab)

Edificios especiales (5)
1."Maravilla" ;/¿?/;-------------------------------------------(...)
2."Castro mercenario";-----------------------------------(Bria coria  )
3."Monumento reverencial";------------------------------(Crougia Deiwos )
4."Sauna";------------------------------------------------(Bormano)

 

Unidades ;(27)

(Español);-----------------------------------------------(original)

Infantería ;(4)
(Reclutados en ;"cuarteles")
1. Lancero  raso ;---------------------------------------------( Gestikapoinan )
2. Hondero ;-------------------------------------------------( Trokalobutiam )
3. Espadachín ;-----------------------------------------------( Caetranan )
4. Escaramuzador raso ;-------------------------------------( Iovaman )

(Reclutados en ;"cuarteles "y "centro urbano")
1. Lancero   ;--------------------------------------------------( Gestikapoinann  )
2. Hondero ;--------------------------------------------------(Trokalobutiamm )

Infantería de élite ;(2)
(Reclutados en ;" fortaleza" )
1.  Lancero de élite ;------------------------------------------(Scortamareva)
2. Escaramuzador ;-------------------------------------------(Clona tekonac )

Infantería Campeona;(1)
(Reclutados en ;" fortaleza " )
1. Campeón;---------------------------------------------------( Ambakaro )

Infantería (mercenaria); (3)
(Reclutados en ;" castro mercenario " )
1.  Mercenario Conii  ;------------------------------------------(... arimos )
2.  Mercenario Túrdulo ;----------------------------------------( ...arimos )
3.  Mercenario Vetón ;------------------------------------------( ... arimos)

Caballería;(2)
(Reclutados en ;"cuarteles " )
1. Lancero  ;----------------------------------------------------( Epones Pretre )
2. Escaramuzador ;--------------------------------------------( Epones Aeiste )

(Reclutados en ;" Cuarteles"y "centro urbano")
1. Escaramuzador ;--------------------------------------------( Epones Aeiste  )

Caballería de élite;(2)
(Reclutados en ;" fortaleza " )
1.  lancero ;----------------------------------------------------( Ambakaro Epones )
2. Escaramuzador ;---------------------------------------------( Katuvaram )

 

Caballería mercenaria ;(2)
(Reclutados en ;" castro mercenario " )
1. Caballería Galaica ;---------------------------------------------(... arimos  )
2. Caballería  Astures  ;--------------------------------------------( ... arimos )
3.Caballería Vetona ;----------------------------------------------(... arimos)

Civiles;(3)
(Reclutados en ;" centro urbano")
1. Mujer;------------------------------------------------------------(Petanim)
(Reclutados en ;"Mercado ")
2. Comerciante;----------------------------------------------------(... )
(Reclutados en ;"Templo ")
3. Sacerdote;-------------------------------------------------------( Ampilua )

Armas de asedio;(1)
(Reclutados en ;" fortaleza")
1.Ariete;--------------------------------------------------------------(... )

Navíos mercenarios ;(3)
(Reclutados en ;" Puerto")
1.Balsa pesquera galaica;-------------------------------------------(...)
2.Navío mercante fenicio;------------------------------------------(... )
3.Navío militar cartaginés ;-----------------------------------------( ...)

Héroes ;(3-5)
(Reclutados en ;"Fortaleza ")
1.Viriato  ;----------------------------------------(Viriato )
1.Púnico  ;---------------------------------------(Apimano)
3.Cauceno;--------------------------------------(Kaikainos )
(invadió áfrica)

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Is there a need to put together this into a new Iberian civ? I didn't understand the majority of this thread because it is in Spanish but I see some sort of a structure tree being suggested here. 

 

These words are names of heroes.

[TKogumelos]

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/research-iberians.247627/page-3

(Check out the latest posts on the pages 3 and 4)

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by TKogumelos

[Lion.Kanzen]

Lately since it is a forum post I like to make a copy of it in archive.is since forum posts are volatile and tend to disappear.

23 minutes ago, TKogumelos said:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/research-iberians.247627/page-3

 

 

https://archive.md/RZGkX

[TKogumelos]

https://www.instagram.com/divulgacion.tanit/

Instagram profile of a reenactment group about Iberians, Celtiberians and Carthaginians. 

They aren't specialized in a unique period, so you should see this content with caution. 

 

[TKogumelos]

https://www.instagram.com/terracarpetana/

 

https://m.facebook.com/asociacionterracarpetana/

Another reenactment group, this time about Carpetanians(a tribe which ethnicity is not clear) in 3rd and 2nd centuries B.C. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by TKogumelos

[TKogumelos]

An article about Iberian and Celtiberian defensive weapons

109_2015_AK_2015-1_Graells-Lorrio-Prez.pdf