Filling Tech Tree: more units for civs

[av93]

Well, the main aim of this topic is not to make a discussion of why techs trees could be filled. The aim is making a collective resource for devs or modders, if they want to augment the number of units of units for civs, reducing the uniqueness of the rosters, but making them easier to balance (I'm for a asymmetrical balance, and the difference could be done in other ways, but as I said, focus the thread into filling the rosters). I'm not saying that we should add or not this units.

At first I would use fast and superficial sources. Later If I have time or somebody does it, I would post better sources.

My proposition is to make the design historical based, but not 100% accurate. For every proposal, a short argument or source. Not unique units, mainly common units and mercenaries (try to stick to historical mercenaries used for the correspondent civ) based on existing roles.

The format is:

role (based on existing ones): Concrete name
Justification: and explanation if needed for supporting sources
Source:


Athens:

(Fast) swordman: Ekdromoi
Justification: It was a champion unit for the Greek civ before the splitting (now replaced by the Athen Marine). Could be the same that Spartan commando (c-s) or Gaul Fanatic (champion)

 

Spartan:

Slinger
Justification: Spartan used slingers in their armies, for sure as mercenaries, and I don't know if they were also native soldiers. I don't know if were the helots who were used as slingers, like in Total War.

Archer
Justification: The same. Could be also Cretan mercenaries.

Source for both them: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130703083325AACyja2

Pikeman: Periokoi pikeman
Justification:  by the III century b.c, pikemen were used by spartans. Now there's a scenario-editor only unit, and has been debated to give allow to train them by a reforms tech

Sword cavalry: Hippeis cavalry
Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs.

Source for Cretan archers and pikemen: https://books.google.es/books?id=RLr8CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=tarantine+cavalry+sparta&source=bl&ots=A-XsoU1zQ3&sig=I_smyZXsIO_j_SkVhaPBSDsATUM&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI0NDXlpTXAhXSFsAKHfcSCHUQ6AEIaTAL#v=onepage&q=tarantine cavalry sparta&f=false

 

Gauls:

Swordman:
Justification: as it says in the original design doc, sword were used by celts, but mainly nobles. It could be used a narrow viewer to make them available as c/s

Archer: Hunter
Justification: Vercingetorix reunited hunters with bows to fight romans. Could be implemented as mercenaries, like Delenda Est.

 

Britons:

Swordmen:
Justification: the same as gauls.

 

Mauryans:

Infantry skirmisher
Justification: mauryan infantry was almost all made by light infantry, and used javelins
Source: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/11/10/the-mauryan-empire-military/.
This source also says that mauryans used catapults, ballistas and rams!

Slingers:
Source: https://books.google.es/books?id=jpXijlqeRpIC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=mauryans+slingers&source=bl&ots=RAdEwmEWZ6&sig=WyBgQ390GEkRCEiD3cw9auarmR0&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVoOaEm5TXAhWBoRQKHYjJBx0Q6AEIVDAK#v=onepage&q=mauryans slingers&f=false
 

Persians:

Slingers:
Justification: Polybius said it, (II a.c)
Source: https://books.google.es/books?id=C4A7DgAAQBAJ&pg=PT314&lpg=PT314&dq=Achaemenids+slingers&source=bl&ots=L5lL7a0O9U&sig=WdDtshe_OXpO5sfZxotqNcOZy1M&hl=es&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuk9f_m5TXAhVEOxQKHbCBAS8Q6AEISDAI#v=onepage&q=Achaemenids slingers&f=false
 

Iberians:

I think that are pretty complete (in historical terms). But:

Sword cavalry:
Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs.

Macedonians:

Spearman:
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_army   wikipedia

 

Republican Romans:

Pretty sure that the roster its historically correct. Normal spearman could be used, not only triarius if wanted. But probably there's a lot of room for auxiliary units. 
 

Spearman: Rorarii
Justification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorarii

Sword cavalry:
Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs.

 

Carthaginians:
 

Infantry skirmisher: Libyan skirmisher

(citizien-soldier) Cavalry spear: Lybian or Carthaginian spear cavalry

Source for both: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Carthage#Formation_and_structure

Sword cavalry: Lybian or Carthaginian sword cavalry
Justification: Convention: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry) and sword as side weapon, but devs give sword cavalry for most civs.
 

Lazy to do romans auxiliares and successors. If somebody have more sources and units, I will add them!
 

Edited October 30, 2017 by av93

[Lion.Kanzen]

Rosario for Romans.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Rosario for Romans.

Rorarius, you mean?

[Lion.Kanzen]

58 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Rorarius, you mean?

Rorarii plural Rorarius singular if I'm not mistaken.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Just now, Lion.Kanzen said:

Rotaria plural Rorarius singular if I'm not mistaken.

Rorarii

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 minute ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Rorarii

I hate ms spelling corrector

[Lion.Kanzen]

Fixed Rotario is other thing....

[OuGaming]

For Athens(or other greeks)

Gymneten( i know we have actual  Psiloi but it is only a collective) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psiloi

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymneten

Spartan

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathoergoi   

elite inf( Agathoergoi ) elite cav( Hippeis)

 

sry for only German articles maybe you find it in english

[av93]

16 hours ago, OuGaming said:

For Athens(or other greeks)

Gymneten( i know we have actual  Psiloi but it is only a collective) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psiloi

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymneten

Spartan

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathoergoi   

elite inf( Agathoergoi ) elite cav( Hippeis)

 

sry for only German articles maybe you find it in english

The aim of the topic is filling the rosters.

Athens have both javelin and sling infantry covered and Sparta have already champion spear infantry. But Sparta could take sword hippeis: most of the cavalry of the game, if I'm not mistaken, used javelins as a main weapon to fight infantry (unless chasing routing units or light infantry), but devs give sword cavalry for most civs.

Added roman rorarii, sword cav for civs that lacked them and carthaginians

Edited October 30, 2017 by av93

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Bear in mind that the 'hippeis' title was from an earlier date probably before hoplites were deployed by and large.  If I am not mistaken, this group was not mounted at all.  Rather, they were simply the best of the best, being deployed on the right flank with one of the kings.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_army

[Nescio]

Although Greek “hippeis” (Latin “equites”) literally means “horsemen” (or “knights”), in Classical times Sparta's hippeis were actually elite hoplites who fought on foot, consisting of 300 picked men who followed and formed the guard of Sparta's two kings; “Agathoergoi” is another term for exactly those 300. There is no need to include them into 0 A.D., because there already is the spart_champion_infantry_spear.xml unit.

And concerning the Roman rorarii, accensi, adscripticii, supernumerarii, etc. we know next to nothing about them; those terms had ceased to be used (or were redefined) for soldiers before Roman historiography started. Velites formed the Roman light infantry; they were organized, had a formal place and role on the battlefield, and were armed with javelins. Rorarii were apparently unorganized, they were kept behind the lines, outside the battle, and were supposedly even lighter armed than the velites (or potentially unarmed). The assumption they were slingers is merely a guess (a sling is much cheaper than a javelin).

[av93]

Then, what kind of sword cavalry could use Sparta?

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

They would probably just rely on Periokoi or some foreigners.  I would personally say that the latter is a much more likely case since cavalry were generally the wealthier stratum of society.  I would personally say that Olynthian Allied Cavalry would be plausible since they were employed during the Corinthian Wars.