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My Problem with Carthage's Embassy Limit


sphyrth
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It's not about having only two types of Embassies. I have no problem with that. But why can't I build two or more Italian Embassies for example?

My suggestion is that the Mercenary Units can be unlocked in the Barracks by building these Embassies if I'm not able to multiply them.

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I have never liked the limit in the first place, and if it wasn't for me making a case for making it a limit of two, due to a limit of one clearly favoring production speed over cost for the old mercenary techs, otherwise it would still probably be one.

Edited by Zeta1127
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Well, IRC, that was a decision made by Mythos, suggested somehow by me. My first proposal was that Carthaginians should choose between 2 of the 3 embassies, disallowing 1 to build. I think that currently you can't choose between 3 techs (only pairs works), but my intention wasn't limiting to 2 the numbers if embassies. As you said, a merc civ that can build only 2 embassies doesn't have sense

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Well if you guys are planning to have Greek and Persian Embassies (which limits Carthage to build 4 Embassy types), then that's fine. But that wasn't exactly my point.

Given the situation now, why can't I build 3 Italian Embassies, and 2 Iberian Embassies? I mean, I still have 2 Embassy Types, right?

I just realized that my post is whiny, so I apologize for that.

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That's kind of a bummer.

That's why I suggested that the Mercenary Units should be Unlockable in the Barracks. That way you can have 1 Italian Embassy and 4 barracks. In effect, you can train 4 Italian Mercenaries simultaneously.

 

But that takes away the eye-candy of units popping out of the Embassies. Not to mention the ability to train

1 archer from the Civic Center

1 spearman from the barracks

1 sword cavalry from the Celtic Embassy, and

1 swordsman from the Italian Embassy

...all at the same time. :-(

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16 hours ago, Imarok said:

I think the main cause for that is, that (at the moment) you cannot set such build restriction. The only possible Build restriction is: The player should not be allowed to build more than x of entity with type "foo".

Shouldn't it be possible to do via techs though? I.e. you have to make the choice to research "Send embassy to x civ" and "Send embassy to y civ" techs before you can build the buildings, then they could have no limits for the amount of buildings.

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For a radical departure for Carthage and mercenaries/embassies, see DE.

In short, mercenaries are unlimited to build (basically they just have a huge upper limit), while citizens are the ones that are limited. I'm not happy with them in DE currently, but I think it's on the right track. I haven't spent much time tweaking it, but this thread gives me ideas. I think what I'm going to do is get rid of the unit limits and limit the buildings differently: I'll make it 1 barracks per civic center (this trains citizen soldiers) and remove the limit on embassies. I really like the "choice" you have to make in vanilla, but I agree it's too limiting. Maybe the idea was to make the embassy mercs train super fast and was never implemented. A solution for vanilla may be to come up with a 4th embassy culture and then have 2 sets of paired techs that allow you to choose which 2 embassies to unlock. Once unlocked, you can build an unlimited number of them. Too bad we can't have more complex tech decision making beyond just pairs, though the vanilla game removed all complexity in technology many alphas ago.

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Here's another situation:

I built 2 Embassies (Italian and Celtic). I trained 5 Italian Swordsmen and 5 Celtic Cavalry. After that I destroyed 1 Embassy (doesn't matter which) and built the Iberian Embassy to train 5 Skirmishers.

It's not very practical, but it's a loophole I can do to make Embassy limits somewhat meaningless.

Edited by sphyrth
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I agree with you saying that Carthage should be able to build all 3 embassies, only 1 per type in order to make them unique. The funny thing is that Celtic and Iberian embassies have both a sword cavalry which are very similar with the fact that Celtic Sword Cavalry trainable from the embassy has lower moevement speed than actually a Gaulic \ Briton Sword Cavalry has and that iberians don't really have Sword Cavalry units to train (just like Gaulic swordmen aviable for ptolemaics and iberians from celtic embassy but for Gauls themself).

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