leper Posted November 30, 2016 Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 8 hours ago, vladislavbelov said: AIs were only as example, I usually test (not 0AD) a balance with python scripts: generate all permutations of possible sides, simulate (very naive) and search some easy situations. Probably for the balance of the 0AD we could use something like this or whatever else. There was an automated unit balance tester written by quantumstate a few years ago, that used a custom map to place units so they could only attack the units they were tested against, plus some hacky code to get the results of that printed into a file, which was then displayed on some website. The code for that was never released, but it did have the obvious benefit of actually testing what happens in a game (as compared to purely template based comparisons). I guess doing something like that with triggers would be a bit easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted November 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, elexis said: Does it point out something about naked fanatics? That's the most detested unit this release. If so, you should check this out, I've nerfed them on this version, but I fear it isn't enough, so it may need further testing. They cost 250 food (naked units shouldn't cost metal and wood since their equipment is quite poor (Maybe some wood or metal since v3 new tech Woe to the Defeated will give them a crazy metal loot income). As the v3 dogs, they have no armor for obvious reasons. Due to their corpulence, they are the infantry with the highest health. They're slightly faster. They've got the special attribute Berserker, which gives them ferocity in form of fast attack rate but they can't capture structures, only attack them. Maybe another debuff like making them harder to control could make more emphasis(messing up with the pathfinder). They're meant mainly for supporting the Carnute's druids on phase 2, the main component of phase 1 rush. The Carnutes have the highest capture attack but they are very weak to pierce. Fanatics can't do much on their own to take control of the enemy's base because of their Berserker status, but they can clear the path and get the units focused on them, while the druids get close and use their great capture attack. I think this tank/healer strategy can make the gaul strategy quite unique. Edited November 30, 2016 by Eraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 More concepts that may be in v3: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted December 1, 2016 Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 How will you implement them ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 10 hours ago, stanislas69 said: How will you implement them ? Mead Hall: Those were places of reunion and festivity for the Celtic cultures. The building I'm using as actor will be the Longhouse from the editor, thought I'm not sure if these Mead Halls were actually there in the times of Vercingetorix and Boudica. I also searched a bit about longhouses but all the celt architecture I could find were rounded houses, so the concept is still in the air. In any case Mead Halls would be like similiar to Persian Halls, getting champions and maybe other bonuses. Marian Legionnaires: As the Marian Reforms tech from #4084 which were marked as done (was it cancelled?), the editor still has those units which were meant specially for implementing that tech. Original concept for Marian Reforms was to upgrade all citizen soldiers into champions, powerful but incapable of building other things than military buildings. I decided to rework the tech for various reasons: Legionnaires shouldn't be treated as elite troops, since they became the main body of the Marian Republic, that'ld lead to more boring champion spam. They inherit from citizen swordsmen now. Replacing all citizens for units that can't build non-military structures is a heavy debuff a civ which controls late game shouldn't have. The tent-building mechanic fits way more, since Marian Reforms did also created the concept of the Contubernium, actually known as squads, composed by 8 man who lived in the same tent. That's why tents increase Contubernium unit limit by 8 each. Same goes for the Macedonian Military Reforms tech, with the 16 Lothos pikeman line groups, which I also reworked. Macedon and Rome are the weakest civs in phase 1 and 2. But if they survive till age 3, they should be able to turn the tables with powerful, almost abusive techs and units that can smash opponents into pieces. That's why the units from Macedon and Rome reform techs have the same skill of breaking poplimit, since they built empires from small countries. Sambuca: Siege weapon for Rome in phase 3. It was originally thought as a naval warfare siege engine to allow getting troops to the enemy coastal walls, used for the first time by general Marcellus in the siege of Syracuse. This is a ground adaptation but the concept is pretty the same. This works by sticking the sambuca's mouth into the wall, then you garrison troops and ungarrison them so they eject at the other side. Gastraphetes: Siege weapon for Macedon in phase 2. Alexander was the first known general to use war machines directly against troops instead at siege. It's mainly a huge handheld crossbow with slow recharge yet terrible projectile speed and reach. The Macedonian Army used them until they replaced them by the heavier Oxybeles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Provisional changelong for v3: Counter system (sword,longsword,spear,pike,mace,arrow,javelin,sling) to end unit spam and bring more strategical tactics. Inclusion of @Palaxin's metal/stone diversity system so the seizing of mines across the map gets more strategic. Implementation of Briton's tech Great Tower Implementation of Gaul's tech Woe to the Defeated Rework of Macedonian eco strategy. New siege Gastraphetes. Rework of Rome eco strategy. New siege Sambuca. Rework of ptol rush strategy. Rework of sele rush strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted December 2, 2016 Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 I was just wondering if you'dneed 3Dmodels About the gauls/brits festivity thing why not just use the tavern building ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Basically no, since my mod doesn't contemplate including new art. It concentrates more on improving gameplay experience and balance of vanilla 0AD. As I told @elexis, this mod more than a game it's a pool of concepts and ideas for the main game, using existing resources. The Mead Hall is very similar to the Longhouse, so I'll use the Longhouse as the actor, or maybe I'll modify the Longhouse directly as I did with the tent. But thx anyway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2016 Testing Gaul Druid Rush and Nerfed Fanatics. commands.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Carthage the worst faction in your mod every single soldiers cost metal. The counters are great but.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 9 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: Carthage the worst faction in your mod every single soldiers cost metal. The counters are great but.... ¿Do you like rushing with Skiritai Commando? With Carthage, all citizen soldiers have elite status, since mercenaries are expensive but got superior quality. They also have phase 1 markets which work as barracks, so you've got phase 1 barter, trade and slaves with build and mining bonus. They can rush like skiritai with all three types of citizen soldiers in phase 1, and defend themselves with the slowest yet strongest cost 0 walls. Not to mention the phase 2 combo with Iber, that I'll have to nerf for sure. In my opinion, I even think I've boosted them too much. I've tested them while I was developing their particular mechanic and I could resist effectively against faster rush, and also overpower them with my own rush. But I may be wrong, so as long as you post a replay where I can confirm that Carthage is that weak, and you offer an alternate solution, I'll gladly consider it. I think the weakest civ of my designs is Persians, so I'll have to rework their mechanic for v3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 2v1v1 my Carthaginian ally lost, so was 1v1v1 I can push slowly both, athenian and Persian, indeed Baal Sacred Band can take many soldiers but mostly of job was made by Greek Ballista , made by Greek fortress made by slave unit. when gold run out even I resign the battle for me was long and wasn't able to maintain a army. mostly of my army were that Ballistas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Could you please post the replay? I want to see it so I can watch what needs to be changed. Thx for the test btw Also did you use trade? Edited December 7, 2016 by Eraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 My territory was small and I can't handle improve the route. yes I will try to upload soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 here is 0.0.22metamodlion.rar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 pros 80% of your counter are great and intuitive like AoE2. the buff of healers and buff of units on walls capturing is balanced now cons unbalancing cost of units carthage metal cost, 80% of units costs metal. eliminate buildings actual system to train units removing barracks. Fortress, even remove siege machines. Heroes hare nerfed cavalry are useless( I need tested better) women can deal with siege machine better than a man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 rome is un playable. no houses 45% of building in III phase. bugs Spoiler ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" WARNING: Tried to get data for invalid technology: romans/marian_reforms ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onTick@gui/session/session.js:629:3 __eventhandler112 (tick)@sn tick:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onSimulationUpdate@gui/session/session.js:686:2 __eventhandler113 (simulationupdate)@sn simulationupdate:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 A next disappoint and I will throw in the towel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: A next disappoint and I will throw in the towel Look at the link of the mod files I updated weeks ago. I detected that error and fixed it. Edited December 7, 2016 by Eraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: rome is un playable. no houses 45% of building in III phase. bugs Reveal hidden contents ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" WARNING: Tried to get data for invalid technology: romans/marian_reforms ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onTick@gui/session/session.js:629:3 __eventhandler112 (tick)@sn tick:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onSimulationUpdate@gui/session/session.js:686:2 __eventhandler113 (simulationupdate)@sn simulationupdate:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" I develop tons of files, I can't keep track of all the possible errors/unbalance that can happen on my own. That's what testers and players are for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Yes I know. But why change dramatically the gameplay? the error isn't great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: unbalancing cost of units Working on it. 3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: carthage metal cost, 80% of units costs metal. Finding a way to improve them. 3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: eliminate buildings actual system to train units removing barracks. Fortress, even remove siege machines. Returned fortress to sele and ptol in v3. If I did remove siege machines, point me where so I can fix it, it wan't on purpose. Carthage's markets are like that since most of the carthaginian army was composed by mercenaries. Also looking for a way to improve that mechanic. 4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: Heroes hare nerfed ? 4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: cavalry are useless( I need tested better) Didn't touch cavalry 4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: women can deal with siege machine better than a man. Also didn't touch women nor siege's parameters. If it is so, it's on vanilla 0AD too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: 45% of building in III phase. Reveal hidden contents ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" WARNING: Tried to get data for invalid technology: romans/marian_reforms ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onTick@gui/session/session.js:629:3 __eventhandler112 (tick)@sn tick:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onSimulationUpdate@gui/session/session.js:686:2 __eventhandler113 (simulationupdate)@sn simulationupdate:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" That's actually part of the design for Rome, and the base design of all eco civs. I know it currently sucks, but Rome is meant to be the strongest on phase 3, and that calls for a heavy handicap on phase 1 and 2. I'm still trying to find a way to make Rome defend itself better, but not enough to challenge rush on phase 1 or wall in phase 2, else everyone will pick Rome. One way I found is to give a heavy boost to outposts, so you can see the rush coming from a mile away, enough time to hide or call for help. Note that the idea for phase 3 military buildings came to me when I looked at the fact that Rome has no wooden towers nor palisades on vanilla 0AD. Mace and Rome, two civs that get soldiers who break poplimit, buildings who can expand inside enemy territory, and not to mention the new v3 unique siege engines that will be on v3. The way to counter those juggernauts is to destroy them while they're still young. ¿What would have happened to these big empires if they were destroyed while they still were small countries? I'll find a better way for eco trees not to look that awful as they're now. 3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: no houses Reveal hidden contents ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" WARNING: Tried to get data for invalid technology: romans/marian_reforms ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onTick@gui/session/session.js:629:3 __eventhandler112 (tick)@sn tick:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" ERROR: JavaScript error: gui/common/tooltips.js line 547 TypeError: template is null getEntityNames@gui/common/tooltips.js:547:6 getRequiredTechnologyTooltip@gui/session/selection_panels.js:1237:17 g_SelectionPanels.Construction.setupButton@gui/session/selection_panels.js:349:1 setupUnitPanel@gui/session/unit_commands.js:96:8 updateUnitCommands@gui/session/unit_commands.js:147:4 updateSelectionDetails@gui/session/selection_details.js:466:2 updateGUIObjects@gui/session/session.js:738:2 onSimulationUpdate@gui/session/session.js:686:2 __eventhandler113 (simulationupdate)@sn simulationupdate:0:1 ERROR: File 'simulation/data/technologies/romans/marian_reforms.json' does not exist ERROR: Failed to load technology "romans/marian_reforms" If that problem persists after the update, tell me and I'll fix that immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eraser Posted December 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: Yes I know. But why change dramatically the gameplay? To avoid all civs for doing the exact same things for growing up, defending and conquering. The players will stop from doing the same things over, and over, and over. Every civ should feel very different to others, so the players will be excited to try new civs instead of choosing always the one will the small special buff they like. Edited December 7, 2016 by Eraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 So you can improve that points, where main vanilla fails. you touch the priestess from Carthage, are great work in mass plus the champion units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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