Royal peltasts

[Pandor]

How about royal peltast for ptolemeis? They need second champion unit. There is no champ skirmishers in this game at all...

[xfs]

Carthaginians Samnite Skirmisher, Macedonians Heavy Skirmisher, Persians Cardaces Skirmisher are champ javelinists. Looks like they are removed from the game.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, Pandor said:

How about royal peltast for ptolemeis? They need second champion unit. There is no champ skirmishers in this game at all...

"Royal Peltast" of Hellenistic era refer to the size of the shield, a small round "pelta", like a pikeman shield. So, Royal Peltasts of this time are heavy pikemen. The best men, the best armor, like the "Silver Shields" of the Seleucids.

[av93]

IRC, Before splitting greek into 3 factions (spartan, athens, macedonians), you could train Ekodromos. It supossed to be a light  and fast hoplite/skirmishers champion. (I didn't find the unit on atlas)

[Pandor]

6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

"Royal Peltast" of Hellenistic era refer to the size of the shield, a small round "pelta", like a pikeman shield. So, Royal Peltasts of this time are heavy pikemen. The best men, the best armor, like the "Silver Shields" of the Seleucids.

What era? the era of this game is kinda unknown. Spartans still have helots, so its before 369 B.C. Seleukidai has Roman style swordsmans, so its after 190 B.C. Boudicca is 60 A.D. etc...

[bb_]

The time frame for 0ad (part one) is 500 BC to 1AD, (second part 1 AD to 500 AD). Further it's 0ad, so a period which does not exist. Because of this anything in the period of 500 BC to 500 AD can be in game.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

15 hours ago, Pandor said:

What era? the era of this game is kinda unknown. Spartans still have helots, so its before 369 B.C. Seleukidai has Roman style swordsmans, so its after 190 B.C. Boudicca is 60 A.D. etc...

Basically try to choose the era when the civ has most dominance or is most distinctive. Within 500 BC to 1 BC.

Edited February 12, 2016 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Phalanx]

I love the idea! But doesnt the Juggernaut or whatever uts called, (really big boat) count as a second champ. The Ptolomies are designed to be an "average" infantry faction. But if the forum vets want to ignore that, then great!  I personally think the Ptolomies are sub-average infantry, and this would help.

[av93]

Relax! At this time there's not a real effort regarding gameplay. Altough a lot could be done, I think that right now Devs are focusing in finishing the features, don't know if because lack of manpower, motivation or because it doesn't have sense to make a lot of effort when some features are missing. (Some words about gameplays and balancing from the devs would be nice, and would clarify things about how they want to work that stuff)

Later, probably when Beta, I think that balancing, gameplay and all stuff will be relevant one more time.

At first, they have a game designed, but when you have to make real the thinks on the paper, everything change. Also, reading the DD and some open tickets, I think that you can see thath some of the first ideas of the game were a lot of features without a cohesive design.

Later, when you can play, you can decide what add, simplify or remove. Sometimes you have a lot of ideas, but makes things a lot of complex. Sometimes you add a lot of things that nobody uses.

BTW, if right now you can play 0 a.d, (and I think that it's funny enough!) it's more to test the engine than for the real gameplay, and solve the bugs and make things work.

[feneur]

3 hours ago, av93 said:

Relax! At this time there's not a real effort regarding gameplay. Altough a lot could be done, I think that right now Devs are focusing in finishing the features, don't know if because lack of manpower, motivation or because it doesn't have sense to make a lot of effort when some features are missing

I would say it's all of the above  We don't have enough people with motivation to focus on the design, and getting too much into details when it comes to balance and the finer points of the design doesn't make sense. We would certainly like for things to be differently, but this is the situation as it is right now and it wouldn't help if we tried to shut our eyes to reality. That said, there are some in-team discussions about some of the remaining big features, but at least some of them are depending on whether or not team members are able to create working prototypes of them for it to be worth mentioning.

[Phalanx]

On 2/12/2016 at 9:22 AM, av93 said:

Relax! At this time there's not a real effort regarding gameplay.

In defence of all those members who are coming up with these threads and conversations regarding gameplay (myself included), while it is probably unrealistic to see these changes implemented anytime soonTM, we can still come up with ideas to streamline the gameplay balancing in Beta, and give the devs a reservoir of ideas when the time comes.  And none of us non-programmers really have the smarts to discuss big programming stuff..

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 2/12/2016 at 7:45 AM, SeleucidKing said:

I love the idea! But doesnt the Juggernaut or whatever uts called, (really big boat) count as a second champ. The Ptolomies are designed to be an "average" infantry faction. But if the forum vets want to ignore that, then great!  I personally think the Ptolomies are sub-average infantry, and this would help.

In my mod, the Ptolemies have a great array of mercenary troop trainable froom the mercenary camps placed through the map. They also have a bonus where mercenary are trained nearly instantly (other civ takes 5 sec to train a merc). This give an interesting dynamic to this civ, because batches of mercenary train instantly too. I also removed the redicilous bonus to their Lighthouse. I don't think the Lighthouse bonus was suppose to be that way. I just made it cheaper and give greater vision range.

I also remove the Juggernaut as a separate unit (there is not juggernaut model in the game and to make one would need a very large model, probably too large for the game as it is designed right now -- there is not enough water space on water maps). I instead give Ptolemies a "Tessarakonteres" special technology which increase the health of their Heavy Warship.

[Lion.Kanzen]

6 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I also remove the Juggernaut as a separate unit (there is not juggernaut model in the game and to make one would need a very large model, probably too large for the game as it is designed right now -- there is not enough water space on water maps). I instead give Ptolemies a "Tessarakonteres" special technology which increase the health of their Heavy Warship.

We need re-scale  game maps and territory influence. 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen
Editing quote

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

17 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

We need re-scale  game maps and territory influence. 

To have honesty... I think the team need to decide if they want big cool ships with arhcers showing up on the decks, etc., or not. If not, then the ships need to be made smaller. Maybe not as small as Age of Mythology, but smaller than they are now. Right now, ship are capable of showing archers on deck (I commit to my mod a diff from Trac that allow for desginer to make only certain unit show up on garrison prop points, thank god for this patch -- I just wait for the day when Public mod changes deprecate this cool feature in my mod, just commit it already folks). Problem with visible garrison point on ships has to do with pathfinding being confuse and cause bad behavior (my guess is all propped units have their own paths which conflict with the path of the ship). If this is fixed, and the patch committed that allow ships (and forts, etc.) to show only ranged unit on deck, catapults, etc. then game is on a good track for interesting ship combat (just add ramming to complete features, forget boarding; then add some custom code for ship pathing so they act a little more natural). If not, just make them small and then you don't have the propping and ships can be easy and boring (but less work).

@Royal Peltasts: It would be GREAT to have battalion feature in the game, so then you can have 1-off recruitment of special battalions like these. For instance,Royal Peltasts can have a battlion limit of 1, making them the truly elite of the elite of your pike corps, and then how you use them and where you use them become important. These guys are your cream of the cream. Upgrade them with an officer, a priest, and a bannerman, and they are a battalion worthy of the name. Guys, cool @#$% like this.

 

Like for Spartans, use imagination and think about how you could train:

• Perioikoi Hoplite Battalions: Unlimited
  • Standard spearman battalion, with Bannerman, Noisemaker, and Officer upgrades.
• Spartiate Hoplite Battalions: 5
  • Champion-level battalions, with Bannerman, Noisemaker, and Officer upgrades
• Hippeis Hoplite Battalions: 1
  • Ridiculously strong. Upgrade with a hero, like Leonidas, to complete the badassery. A Priest could be a special upgrade. He heals units in his battalion and can perform a pre-battle sacrifice of a goat.

Edited February 14, 2016 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Relax, remember sometime ago , I didn't remember the date, but was when change the map format some Devs speak about create huge gigantic maps, and Wraitii was or is interested in change actual gameplay and we speak about huge real maps were you can deal with huge amount of resources, spaces and armies.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Relax, remember sometime ago , I didn't remember the date, but was when change the map format some Devs speak about create huge gigantic maps, and Wraitii was or is interested in change actual gameplay and we speak about huge real maps were you can deal with huge amount of resources, spaces and armies.

Game doesn't need giant maps. Game needs adjustments for the gameplay it already have.

For instance, random maps are too cluttered right now. Straggler trees everywhere. Makes difficult to place buildings. Now, if building could be placed over trees (trees disappear) this would not be a problem. Barring this, the maps need uncluttered. Just a example. And then, if the team want large ships, then water ways need to be enlarge.

Edited February 14, 2016 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Can be interesting... Adjust not yet, is like you said about balance, is better have all features and try to adjust and rebalance all.

if you put attention you can see all planned features go to same way, improved the ships, I'm talking sea warfare features.

im not very happy with the roles from some units, I want more environment stuff, is kind of funny capture things and fight again Gaia. But  if can find the way to try have many paths to choose  your own ( but accurate) civilization roster. But there is other topic, I'm waiting for Wraitii to continue discuss how make 0 AD follow Its own way. 

 

I saw many people have their own vision about units and the factions. But in other moment we can speak which units are considerable, may be both based in player decisions. Remember "History is your for taking"

[av93]

17 hours ago, SeleucidKing said:

In defence of all those members who are coming up with these threads and conversations regarding gameplay (myself included), while it is probably unrealistic to see these changes implemented anytime soonTM, we can still come up with ideas to streamline the gameplay balancing in Beta, and give the devs a reservoir of ideas when the time comes.  And none of us non-programmers really have the smarts to discuss big programming stuff..

Of course! the sense of my post was because I understood some annoyance before. Is the problem of communication each other without non-verbal communication, you can miss the mood of the other.

BTW, nerf the swordman champion + heroe gameplay

Sorry for the offtopic.

[Pandor]

On 14.02.2016 at 4:42 PM, av93 said:

Of course! the sense of my post was because I understood some annoyance before. Is the problem of communication each other without non-verbal communication, you can miss the mood of the other.

BTW, nerf the swordman champion + heroe gameplay

Sorry for the offtopic.

Spearmans have exactly the same dmg as swordsmans, swords are better to destroy building, thats all. for example macedon has hero + 5 atack aura and silver sheilds have even more hp then extraordinarii or longswords but dmg is same.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Pandor

[Phalanx]

3 hours ago, Pandor said:

Spearmans have exactly the same dmg as swordsmans, swords are better to destroy building, thats all. for example macedon has hero + 5 atack aura and silver sheilds have even more hp then extraordinarii or longswords but dmg is same.

Wait, SiShPi have the same damage as extraordinarii? Oh, but damage type is the issue. Swords are more useful against infantry, which is why SiShTh is a better choice right now. Infantry are genrally more resistant to pierce damage then hack damage, so while the same numerical value is used, extraordanirii are more cost effective than the SiShPi, dealing more damage to infantry, and cav can just run away like they are supposed to.

Edited February 19, 2016 by SeleucidKing

[Pandor]

5 minutes ago, SeleucidKing said:

Wait, SiShPi have the same damage as extraordinarii? Oh, but damage type is the issue. Swords are more useful against infantry, which is why SiShTh is a better choice right now. Infantry are genrally more resistant to pierce damage then hack damage, so while the same numerical value is used, extraordanirii are more cost effective than the SiShPi, dealing more damage to infantry, and cav can just run away like they are supposed to.

LoL, no infantry have same armour vs pierce and hack. there will be drow if u make them duel each other (with same upgrades)

[Phalanx]

5 hours ago, Pandor said:

LoL, no infantry have same armour vs pierce and hack. there will be drow if u make them duel each other (with same upgrades)

Oh. Apparently I dont pay attention...

[av93]

On 19/2/2016 at 3:20 PM, Pandor said:

Spearmans have exactly the same dmg as swordsmans, swords are better to destroy building, thats all. for example macedon has hero + 5 atack aura and silver sheilds have even more hp then extraordinarii or longswords but dmg is same.

Then nerf Phillip heroe aura also