Faction: The Franks

[niektb]

I hereby declare the topic opened

What do we look for in this topic?

1. A design proposal with a line-up of units, buildings and special technologies. Also we need to differentiate the gameplay from other factions.

2. General looks of units and buildings and references.

3. Historical info for descriptions.

4. Faction emblem and banners.

5. Miscellaneous.

4. Faction Emblem

Maybe the Carolingian Cross would be a good symbol?

5. Differentiating the gameplay

My suggestion is that we use feudalism as a keypoint. Personally I had the following idea:

The player would be able to build Castles (rather than a fortress) that would function (maybe with tech research?) as a economic center (Dropsite / Trading site etc. etc.) . However, it is not allowed to build them near your Civic Center (which stand symbol for the cities) Thus a certain expansion is required for the players. Lastly the Castle is the place is where the players recruit the main heap of units. In the City Barracks (mainly) only armed citizens (e.g. peasants with a pitchfork, simple bowmen, levy spearman) are recruitable. This makes the City harder to defend which forces careful placement of the Castles.

Edited July 27, 2014 by niektb

[Lion.Kanzen]

Don't forget banners ( rally point and garrison banner)

[niektb]

I've added banners to the list.

[Usac]

There is no Frank civ without a Francisca. I could see it leading to an interestingly ranged unit who does melee infantry damage.

It should be a must have, in my opinion!

[Stan`]

Should it be a throwable weapon ? So should they be archers ?

[Radagast.]

I think they should be ranged, but not archers. Just call them infantry_axe_thrower and make their simulation template inherit from template_unit_infantry_ranged.

Perhaps even introduce a generalized template_unit_infantry_ranged_melee_thrower.

Having ranged unit that do melee attack is no problem for 0AD. Though only with the new unit meshes, we might be able to make the thrown axe rotate. I don't think we can rotate props or prop points by script despite me remembering someone of the main team in the forum announcing that it should be possible?

[Stan`]

Well you can load animated props ? ie rider on the horse.

[Radagast.]

hm.. yes, we could indeed animate it, i.e. give it a rotation.

Though if we wanted to also make the trajectory an animation, (i.e. animate the prop position), then it will become troublesome as the axe might change height depending on the animation frame of the parent bone. (as the l_hand and r_hand prop points are parented to bones)

In our case that'd be no problem as we only animate rotation. Thanks for pointing it out, Stan.

[auron2401]

Having the whole carolingian logo could freak out history nerds (or anyone who's played CK2 Old gods. XD)

The karlings kind of ruled over france and germany. Sure they hated each other, but they were still the same.. 'dynasty'.

IS there.. ANYTHING.. more unique to the frankish Karlings? SO as to determine which karling is which when they are warring against each other?

Also, those 'axethrowers' could be melee as well? I mean Franciscas are actually decent to swing around as well as fling around.

Franciscas CAN be thrown, and you really cant kill with them, so they would primarily be a melee weapon and you would only be thrown if you had a need to (eg to fight against an archer you were charging against)

Watching that video, it seems they would be probably even used them for morale purposes. Good arguments have been made for the use of them as a bouncy weapon.
I would like a demonstration though. XD

Edited July 27, 2014 by auron2401

[Usac]

Talking military gameplay standpoint, Franks would probably be highly void of missile units save the axemen and maybe a Skirmisher unit. We all know how France had some of the best cavalry, but they definitely didn't slack on Infantry since that was how they won the Battle of Tours against the Berber cavalry.

[Le Druide Gaulois]

Blacksmith as by request of Stan:

[Radagast.]

Great man! I never could draw such a smoke, nor could I create such swords. Thanks for the building!

[Le Druide Gaulois]

Thanks, Rada! I'm just glad to help.

[wolflance]

Sorry to barge in.

IMO the Francisca could be a secondary ranged attack a.l.a. pilum, from a realism point of view. It gradually fell out of use during Carolingian times anyway. For other ranged, they could also have longbow and javelin?

[Stan`]

I made carolingian stuff though because resource are scare for anythin gbuilt by the franks. so mostly won ´t be used

[wolflance]

Part 1 time frame encompass Merovingian period as well, that period I know next to nothing about...some articles I read seems to suggest that not much changed in the army composition (except some minor equipment change) during these two periods.

Main weaponry would be spear, sword, axe & Francisca, javelin, and longbow. Armour would be mail shirt, spangenhelm or conical helmet (some with nasal guard), and round or oval-shaped shield. There were sling and staff sling as well.

The unit roster does not deviate very far from the vanilla 0ad roster.

Being the...uh,'Western European' faction, I think the Franks can serve as a 'baseline' civilization, so that other cultures can have a point of reference/comparison.

Edited May 12, 2015 by wolflance

[Stan`]

Problem was not military but architectural ^^'

[wolflance]

Oh, that

A quick Google nets me several 'Merovingian' churches and stone forts. I will try to post pictures when my connection is good.

(This is still way better than the information we have on the architecture of...say, Han or Tang Dynasty).

[niektb]

The Carolingian timeframe seems better to focus at (at least to me) when you pick the zenith of each faction (like 0 A.D. does it)(just like we pick the Viking Age for the Norse rather than also covering the centuries before it)

[wolflance]

The good thing about modding a dark-age European army is that everyone is using the basic spear, sword and longbow, with the occasional javelin and slings (and Dane axe). More specialized weapon, such as maces and polearms and crossbows, did not come into prevalence until later.

Speaking of Vikings, I am under the impression that Vikings = Normans, but from different period. Why part 1 split them into two?

Buildings:

I found this photo on pinterest.

Merovingian House 6~700 AD, reconstruction. I hope Carolingian period architecture won't differ too much from this one.

Another reconstructed house from the Merovingian period. From Musee de Temps Barbare. (I think there is an entire reconstructed Merovingian Frankish village over there).

Edited May 13, 2015 by wolflance

[niektb]

I think there are a couple of things we could use to define the Carolingian gameplay. The most notable are Feudalism (which was invented by the Carolingians) and the Carolingian Renaissance. Also the French army used a lot of horses.

I got 2 interesting reads into French history; 1 about the Carolingian Renaissance, the other more broad:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance

http://www.britannica.com/place/France/History#toc40263

Still, feudalism is a fairly complex system. Does anybody has ideas on how to represent that using a fairly simple mechanic, suitable to fit in Millennium A.D.? (I mean, we could look into something difficult and complex like building castles that do some sort of self-managment and gives you taxes and army units as a result (depending on how you treat the castles), but I don't think that would work very nice)

[Stan`]

What about making it have a king, like in the regicide game, which would have an aura that would severly advantage the player while he is alive, but would do the inverse if he is dead ?

Also, Cavalry. The carolingians were so strong because of that, that should be the key feature.

[Stan`]

Found this today : http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9422&hl=frank

[niektb]

I think it would be a niceidea to have metal as the major resource for Carolingians, certain buildings (market and castle) generate metal to simulate taxes. (using feudalism and taxes as keypoint)

I suggest a strong separation between Cities and Castles. Castles cannot be built nearby Civ Centers nor the opposite.

A Castle is a standalone building that is able to train certain soldiers, generate metal (taxes) and bonuses farming slightly (you know, protection makes farmers happy).

On the other hand the city contains all buildings and has a economic nature; the barracks only trains some levy unit types. In Phase 3 stone defense buildings will become available, prior to that the player should rely on Castles and wooden defenses.

[Stan`]

Sounds like an interesting concept