Buying Slaves at Market

[Lord_Levi-IX]

Hello all,

I've just discovered this amazing game recently, and it sounds like all the ideas I've ever had for a stratagy game thrown into one. I can't believe I haven't heard of this project sooner.

Here is my little contribution, something I was playing around with in my head.

Buying slaves at a market or slaver's post, they would cost metal and would have reduced hp. The price would go for each one bought and it applies to all players who use slaves. They could be used early on to an early economic rush stratagy.

I saw a topic about capturing citizens and a lot of comments on how it could work. Why not have a slaver unit that can capture citizens like a monk in AoE? If you didn't want to put them to work immidiately you could bring them to your slaver's post and metal would automaticlly be generated based on the current market price

[iNcog]

NOT ETHICAL

there's already a slave upgrade in the game anyway

[av93]

NOT ETHICAL

there's already a slave upgrade in the game anyway

It's only a game!

Btw slaves have been discussed in the past.

http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?s=8ebb84c96a8b76bd7a9fbe259ba065e8&app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

I suggest to make slaves available in the third phase, replacing citizen soldiers that are being upgrading to higher ranks, thus loosing economy efficiency. (Slaves could have male bonus)

[iNcog]

For sure it's only a game.

Well let's be fair though, the economy as it currently is is quite complex and interesting already. We have 4 types of harvesters already: Cav, Infantry, Villagers and Caravans. I'm not even including naval economy. I think Caravans should replace citizen soldiers in the later stages of the game, that should do quite well imo.

[Oimat]

You're right, don't include naval economy, because it doesn't exist

[iNcog]

You're right, don't include naval economy, because it doesn't exist

no fishing boats or merchant vessels?

i wouldn't know i never go water.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Is not bad idea at third level boost in some cultures give a unit male as slave.

[thamlett]

May be useful in the implementation of ramming with the ships.

I already use the women like slaves to work while the men fight.

[Sanguivorant]

Nubian Archers

Seriously though, Ptolemies are the only civ that gets a unit that trains in like five seconds.

[thamlett]

Nubian Archers

Seriously though, Ptolemies are the only civ that gets a unit that trains in like five seconds.

You'd be surpised at the time difference between training times. One unit may take 16 GS (game seconds) to train while another may take 8 (and if the game is running at double speed, that trims down to 4 seconds).

[Sanguivorant]

If any slave mechanism was implemented in the game, the easiest way to do that would be a metal-costing unit that trains quickly, like the Nubian Archer.

[sanderd17]

When we have capturing, it's quite possible captured units will transform into slaves. Maybe they could also be traded in some way. Not sure about that.

[Radagast.]

I have already started capturing (using unit power+health+proximity) as 0AD decided to add converting units + besieging buidings (using loyalty).

I can't yet imagine how to make slaves tradable. If we made this, then we could immediately represent all resources in this way (object representation).

Then only a more generic + visible inventory is missing and we have people bearing goods around.

The newest prop point works of Sander will make a lot possible (e.g. people bearing each other, might look strange but possible. And as we have height range bonus for ranged units you even had a benefit from stacking your units... ).

I think of making a unit that bears a wooden plank to building foundation defend itself with this plank if it has no better weapon at hand and is being attacked. So far the dreaming.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Hephaestion

[Radagast.]

I suggest to make slaves available in the third phase, replacing citizen soldiers that are being upgrading to higher ranks, thus loosing economy efficiency. (Slaves could have male bonus)

Why should you only be able to capture enemies if you have a metropole (city phase)?

The replacing citizen soldiers is up to you, as you have control of slaves like of your own units.

The skills + ethnicity of the slaves prisoners of war will be held up, though they might bear tunics that identify them as slaves.

I would even like to have them remain the player colors of all previous owners. (perhaps only the last owner is possible, i.e. by simply only adding multiplying a capturer-civilization-dependent slave tunic texture ontop of the previous texture.)

Knowing the previous owner would make recapturing your lost units more attractive and more realistic. You would first free your units then others. Like in real life (if we are honest).

[Sanguivorant]

I don't know if this is possible, but maybe slaves can "Die" and give you a sum of metal upon clicking a specific button.

[Radagast.]

It's already there: loot . (a bit rude to 'terminate' your slaves but possible)

Trade could indeed be added as separate feature:

OnOwnershipChanged --> Conversion                   --> Capturing                    --> Buy/Sell (Trade Units: mercenaries / slaves) 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Hephaestion

[Sanguivorant]

Here's one way to do it:

It requires that you have built a market.

Upon killing a human unit, there is a certain chance of a unit spawning inside a market "Being garrisoned". These can be considered, "Slave Points".

Slave points are a resource, and they are used to do pay for specialized units that focus on a specific aspect of resource gathering or can be sold for a stable amount of metal.

With slave points you can create slaves.

Slaves are units that train incredibly quickly and do very well in a certain aspect of the economy (Mining, farming, etc.). Their downside is that they cannot fight, are very weak, and have an upkeep cost. To support one slave unit, it costs 1 food and 1 wood per second while it is alive.

There are various slaves you can train:

Mining Slave: Costs 1 slave point and 100 of metal and stone. Mines both much faster.

Cutting Slave: Costs 1 slave point and 100 wood. Chops wood much faster.

Farming Slave: Costs 1 slave point and 100 food. Harvests from farms much faster.

Or you can sell your slave points. 1 slave point could equal 100 metal.

The benefit of slaves is that you can boost your economy much quicker, which could help someone who is on the defensive, as long as they can efficiently kill enemy units. At the same time, slaves can substitute citizen soldiers in the labour intensive resources such as wood and mining, which means you have more army to command.

The negatives is that once various resources are gone, their use is done and you have to kill them.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Sanguivorant

[iNcog]

Upkeep cost eh? reminds me of something I wrote a long time ago:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/433402-dream-rts-22

[niektb]

Whut? Slaves should have upkeep cost while (champion)soldiers don't?

Here is my personal opinion on implementing slaves (though I really wouldn't mind if slaves do not get implemented at all)

1. You don't buy slaves, you capture them.

2. Slaves are no gatherers, but do the following:

- slaves act as carrying units, you can task them on gathering citizens to let the citizens continuesly gather while the slaves carry the goods to the dropsites.

- When garrisoned in galleys, the galleys move slightly faster.

3. Of course a slave can't fight and has a low health and gets easily recaptured (maybe it would become again what it was before it was forced to be slave?)

4. No upkeep cost, (no population cost too?)

Edited June 9, 2014 by niektb

[iNcog]

I think that simplicity is best here, remember that there are already 6 different land harvesters in the game already and slaves would be the 7th type. You might as well have slaves be a sort of complement to female villagers. Villagers do quite well at farming in the mid to late game. So I imagine slaves would be "good" at mining stone and metal, average at chopping wood and bad at gathering food. Slaves come from captured units, I guess. e.g. capture some infantry unit and it comes a slave.

It's actually an interesting idea. I wonder if you could base booms around capturing enemy units.

Things like upkeep and stuff are too complicated, imo.

Edited June 9, 2014 by iNcog

[RoekeloosNL]

Slaves for the hard working types like mining and wood works and maybe some type of defensive spikes, Womans for the fields and house buildings, Military units for defensive buildings and military buildings.

[Radagast.]

RookeloosNL, your ideas sound interesting and I enjoyed reading them - though I fear another resource would make players angry.

My position is to make the slaves capturable and Niek's proposal sounds impressive. Bearing goods and assisting units, e.g. repairing machines, is what slaves indeed should be able do if we wanted to circumvent the fact that captured enemy champions could only fight once captured.

Champions only could fight as we can't exchange whole templates which is not possible per tech-research yet too and might never be (but don't worry it's not really needed too as actor exchange on tech research is just as powerful and Sander already added that).

As to my knowledge it's possible to modify template values but it's not possible to add capability to gather to champions per tech research. Please tell me if I'm wrong. It might well be that deactivating and activating such capabilities is possible.

I also like the upkeep cost, though I would prefer to have those for other units too.

Perhaps we can somehow involve your market idea for trading slaves.