If the CC is down: AI or player can't build... no chance to recover? A suggestion about that

[Blake]

When you destroy the Main Building/s of a civilization, that's it. You won. Too easy, Too simple. Bad idea. The AI does nothing. You need to chase it one unit at a time, boring. Game experience broken. Curse all your ancestors, resign game.

I have a suggestion about that: give the players a chance to recover if they do not have the 500 of each 3 resources to rebuild a CC and if they do not have any markets remaining to compensate that loss. A new building.

A building that can be in any terrytory at any time, but very very very very weak and only for collect wood, metal and stone, the main resources to build a new CC. A building that only has the resistance of a farm, or even less. Can be a basket or anything similar, and can only be built when the player has lost all his CC. And it can be only one at a time for each player. If it is destroyed, you can build a new one until you build a new CC . Then, the option of building this dissapears. The cost of this building? well, the thing is help the player recover again from 0. So it can be free or very low cost.

By adding this option, the game basics and rules remain as they where, while adding a lot of potential for any kind of gameplay. The AI could also be adapted to this new feature, giving it the ability to adopt better recover strategies, both in single player, cooperative and/or multiplayer.

So, having 1 female worker remaining can be your salvation if you have a partner watching over you.

Also with this feature implemented, the "nomadic" kind of game can be successfuly implemented.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Blake

[iNcog]

Hehe this reminds me of when I lost a game because someone killed my only CC and then my resource drop sites just died and I had no way of getting the metal needed to just build it again

[Lion.Kanzen]

Build a dock is the only building that don't need a CC included in all factions.

[bouke]

Build a dock is the only building that don't need a CC included in all factions.

But you need water for the dock, and some resources, so i think a basket is a good idea.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think this suggestion would make the end-game just another grind. If you've lost all your principle buildings, then that should be clue-1 that you've lost the match. If anything, I think we should hasten the end-game with a Sudden Death option. Lose all CCs and Fortresses and you get 5 mins to rebuild a CC or you lose.

[Blake]

I think this suggestion would make the end-game just another grind. If you've lost all your principle buildings, then that should be clue-1 that you've lost the match. If anything, I think we should hasten the end-game with a Sudden Death option. Lose all CCs and Fortresses and you get 5 mins to rebuild a CC or you lose.

It is not about winning or lose. It's about having fun. I can't have fun with an static-good for nothing AI or human player who/which cannot reborn from his/its ashes. And that also would make nomad maps impossible . I recommend a votation on this matter.

Not only that. if the player has no market and 499 of wood and 499 of stone and 499 of metal it will be a lost battle.

Making free baskets of very cheap baskets or something similar will solve that. Or the ability to build resource places anywhere (and they lose hp slower) . Sudden death is a good plan. But as a type of game like conquest or supremacy. Not for all the game types.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Blake

[niektb]

I think for the nomadic game style other solutions can be found. A lot of players complain about the end-game because they have to hunt every single unit down in order to win. Most players hate playing 'hide-and-seek'.

Edited May 30, 2014 by niektb

[Blake]

I think for the nomadic game style other solutions can be found. A lot of players complain about the end-game because they have to hunt every single unit down in order to win. Most players hate playing 'hide-and-seek'.

That is because the enemy AI or the player cannot respond. They are defenseless when they can't build another CC having 499 of the last 3 resources. Too expensive for a potential recovery. Again. Age of empires gives the computer AI and the player the option to recover from almost nothing, I'm suggesting a possible option for recovery having the territory style of gameplay which has 0.a.d. And most players like challenge. If your companion can't recover from a huge assault, this game is getting worse. And I like the gentleman style of gameplay where you can let your enemy recover and atack him again 1 hour later. I can't do this with this game in its current state. I suggest time limit as an option and the resource alternative building as a feature.

[Lion.Kanzen]

That is because the enemy AI or the player cannot respond. They are defenseless when they can't build another CC having 499 of the last 3 resources. Too expensive for a potential recovery. Again. Age of empires gives the computer AI and the player the option to recover from almost nothing, I'm suggesting a possible option for recovery having the territory style of gameplay which has 0.a.d. And most players like challenge. If your companion can't recover from a huge assault, this game is getting worse. And I like the gentleman style of gameplay where you can let your enemy recover and atack him again 1 hour later. I can't do this with this game in its current state. I suggest time limit as an option and the resource alternative building as a feature.

i like, in diplomacy create a truce to come back to fight.

[MishFTW]

Nothing is more irritating than having to spend 20+ minutes hunting down random females on a vast map once I have defeated the enemy and virtually destroyed every building. So so so irritating. A 5 minute sudden death option seems nice

[Lion.Kanzen]

We need sudden death and new victory conditions.

So for a17 what can be good to have, new victory conditions can be very nice for A17

Edited May 30, 2014 by Lion.Kanzen

[sanderd17]

We should ™ have triggers in A17. With triggers, map-custom scripts can mark players as won or lost at any time they want.

[Lion.Kanzen]

We should have triggers in A17. With triggers, map-custom scripts can mark players as won or lost at any time they want.

you can open trade about that, I love wish-list for A17

[hhyloc]

Relevant thread: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18570

[Mythos_Ruler]

We should have triggers in A17. With triggers, map-custom scripts can mark players as won or lost at any time they want.

The game should still have some standard victory condition options and game modes though.

[rmk]

People can already use the support elephant in the Mauryans civ to do that. I don't know if there is other units that can do that... So, we can let the user choose if they want to play with the Mauryans to have the support elephant or we can add an equivalent unit in each civilisations.. It's not too hard to code. We do a copy of the elephant template, but we change the visual actor and some attributes like name, description, etc. Anyway I think it's better to not do that. Because with only the Mauryan's support elephant, that give a different game style depending on the civ the user choose.

[Lion.Kanzen]

People can already use the support elephant in the Mauryans civ to do that. I don't know if there is other units that can do that... So, we can let the user choose if they want to play with the Mauryans to have the support elephant or we can add an equivalent unit in each civilisations.. It's not too hard to code. We do a copy of the elephant template, but we change the visual actor and some attributes like name, description, etc. Anyway I think it's better to not do that. Because with only the Mauryan's support elephant, that give a different game style depending on the civ the user choose.

A mule cart unit or bovine

[thamlett]

A mule cart unit or bovine

Sounds perfect.

[Blake]

A mule cart unit or bovine

Wait!! that is not my suggestion. I am talking about a once-buildable-unit each time player has nothing else. Not an always-buildable unit like the elephant worker. Because that would destroy the advantage and the variety of the game by making mauryans mainstream. I am talking about a basket or maybe a cart unit or bovine like you suggest that costs nothing or very little resources and can only be one at once in every no CC situations. Only one . Free or very very cheap. Only buildable if the CC is down. For every civ. If the last one is still alive you can't build another one.

[zzippy]

And this once-buildable-cart-or-bovine-unit-very-very-cheap isn't an easy target for you opponent who just crushed your cc?

Why not just start a new game when one is lost? ("..reborn from his/its ashes..")

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Cuz of threadtitle I thought it was about eg getting victim of roman swordrush in minute 4 (which especially in 2v2 is deadly since 24 swordmen are enough. In a16 with testudo bug maybe less) and being unable to rebuild cc in phase I.

Your once-buildable-cart-or-bovine-unit-very-very-cheap would at least make the roman rush less op, another solution would be making cc available in phase I.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Wait!! that is not my suggestion. I am talking about a once-buildable-unit each time player has nothing else. Not an always-buildable unit like the elephant worker. Because that would destroy the advantage and the variety of the game by making mauryans mainstream. I am talking about a basket or maybe a cart unit or bovine like you suggest that costs nothing or very little resources and can only be one at once in every no CC situations. Only one . Free or very very cheap. Only buildable if the CC is down. For every civ. If the last one is still alive you can't build another one.

Yeah support that.

[Blake]

And this once-buildable-cart-or-bovine-unit-very-very-cheap isn't an easy target for you opponent who just crushed your cc?

Why not just start a new game when one is lost? ("..reborn from his/its ashes..")

---

Cuz of threadtitle I thought it was about eg getting victim of roman swordrush in minute 4 (which especially in 2v2 is deadly since 24 swordmen are enough. In a16 with testudo bug maybe less) and being unable to rebuild cc in phase I.

Your once-buildable-cart-or-bovine-unit-very-very-cheap would at least make the roman rush less op, another solution would be making cc available in phase I.

MMMmmm Yeah. Why not? I mean, we can go all the way "Age of empires" style and still not being able to build CCs at 1st Age. But if we are historically accurate humans can rebuild CCs once they have been destroyed at any time. Even if they are monkeys, or ants with helmet. The roman rush is bad for balance and building a CC in the first age is an important suggestion. A must have in this game. But also, if the CC is destroyed and player has no resources to build it... then again we need a buildable and very cheap/free cart to be built by the players units.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Blake

[3FFA]

I know this is a bump but as a brand new player and member of this forum I would like to add another suggestion to solve this problem.

In Tribal Trouble 1 and 2(most people wouldn't have heard of this before) the dev Oddlabs ran into the exact same problem. They fixed this by making it so when a player has no buildings all his units appear as light (red would work better, no blending into water etc.)blue - colored dots on the map. This would be removed upon the construction of a building being started.

edit: they had a separate color for each player, not all players blue. The reason I remember blue is because most players chose that to make hiding much easier via hiding next to water on the edge of the map.

Another suggestion might be to make killing all of a player's buildings be the death of him like in Star Craft.

Edited June 24, 2014 by 3FFA

[iNcog]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing a kind of mobile drop site for stone, wood and metal. Yeah the elephant does do that for the Mauryans, but I'm thinking of a slightly faster unit, which obviously costs more. The idea behind a mobile drop-site is that you could use that to gather resources on the map outside of your frontiers, with infantry. In this manner one could be aggressive with infantry but still gather resources during the down time. The favorite thing age of empires players like to say about 0 AD is that defender's advantage is too strong in this game since infantry gather resources. I don't agree with this at all but introducing this mobile drop-site would be a great way to both make the naysayers shut up while adding something potentially interesting to the game.

Just a random thought I had, might as well share it. I don't think mobile drop-sites are a priority at all but it's nice to talk about. It would certainly help players who have lost their CC stage a comeback.

[Yrgael]

Human or AI losing those building and not having resources to build a new CC is a loss; unless you have an army that can crush the enemy. A Timer seems good; but an army of 300 that lost their CC because their opponent rushed them in wave attack is not done. Maybe a timer between combats. If you have units not attacking for X amount of time, game over. Reset the timer after each attack. An army may need to regroup after a battle.

this ends the "hunting game".