===[COMMITTED]=== Zebu Rigging

[Stan`]

The zebu model for the Ox cart is now rigged. Animators feel free to animate

I also added vertex groups. Don't know if that will help.

Spoiler

Zebu Rigged.7z

EDIT : This one is the right one :

Zebu Rigged.7z

[Radagast.]

you can't animate props

19:35 < _Stan_> Even if they are parented to bones ? Then we have a problem with the donkeys

19:36 < sanderd17> You can animate props, but they have to be animated separately (as a different model)

19:36 < sanderd17> See the archers on the Mauryan elephant archer

19:36 < _Stan_> They need to move around

19:37 < _Stan_> So I animated their spawn position

19:38 < Enrique> ?

19:39 < Enrique> I didn't explain correctly

19:39 < Enrique> you can animate props, but you can't animate prop-points

19:41 < _Stan_> So... we need a special two donkey animation ?

I'm not sure about this.

If you put in an extra bone for parenting the prop point (empty/object) to. Then there is nothing that speaks against animating that extra bone. Of course if the bone count still is okay for the engine.

[Stan`]

Nobody took time to answer So I guess I'll wait until wijitmaker comes back. Or until someone helps me. Those comments should be in the rotary mill though./

[Enrique]

About the rotary mill donkeys animation:

There's a way to animate the rotary mill (although this is not the thread to discuss it) and avoid making the full 360 circle animation which would be a very big animation data file. It should be as follows:

- The actual part of the mill that rotates should be a prop attached to the main structure.

- This Mill rotating thing should have two prop-bones where the donkeys will be, these prop bones must be parented to the bones that makes the thing rotate.

- Make a small looping walk animation for the donkey.

- Apply the donkeys where the prop-bones should be and give them the walk animation loop, so they will play the walk animation while the rotation of the parent will make the illusion that they're walking. Of course the speeds will need to be tuned so there's no slide-effect going on.

The problem I was talking about in the IRC is that prop-bones do not record animation . This means that you can animate them in the armature, but the engine will not read its movements. The only way to make them move is parenting them to "normal bones" or "deformation bones" and they will follow its parents movements/rotations.

About the actual zebu rig in this thread:

- Not enough bones for decent animation.

- The mesh is symmetrical, but the armature is not.

- Envelope weighting is not suitalbe for accurate deformation. It needs vertex groups for each bone in order to have better control over deformations.

- Inverse Kinematics for the legs and tail would make animations much more real and easier to do.

[Radagast.]

Thanks for clarifying. Sounds good.

Does it mean a DEFORM bone without influencing vertices is no deform bone anymore and not translated into the PSA file by pyrogenesis? Loosing overview myself .

Sorry for the wrong forum post. Can move it?

Good idea with the rotatory mill. I think we could simply attach the horse as a prop to the rotating rotary mill prop (like Enrique mentioned). Once we have a speed ratio fine-tuned for the main bone (rotatory) and the walking animation of each unit (via setting the animation speed in the xml ... oh, that might not be possible as it would change globally then? => so only change the rotary speed to fit the already existing horse, elephant, .. walking speed).

If we put the building into walking state (the animation needs not necessarily exist, does it? or simply use the idle one then for walking). Then the props also play the walk animation, so the ox, horse or whatever attached to the rotatory. The center bone animation also has to be the walking animation then.

Should work out of the box according to: (follow the image gate)

We could then later make the run animation play instead of the walk animation for the building (perhaps per toggle button, should have some cost or only available if alarm raised). Then the rotary mill output production would be quicker .. at least visually.

On toggle event then also the output had to be adapted.

About the actual zebu rig in this thread:

- Not enough bones for decent animation.

- The mesh is symmetrical, but the armature is not.

- Envelope weighting is not suitalbe for accurate deformation. It needs vertex groups for each bone in order to have better control over deformations.

- Inverse Kinematics for the legs and tail would make animations much more real and easier to do.

I think Stan will be happy about that. Anyone knows how many bones we should use?

[Lion.Kanzen]

I new form of camouflage? Or a kind of punish?

[Enrique]

Thanks for clarifying. Sounds good.

Does it mean a DEFORM bone without influencing vertices is no deform bone anymore and not translated into the PSA file by pyrogenesis? Loosing overview myself .

Good idea with the rotatory mill. I think we could simply attach the horse as a prop to the rotating rotary mill prop (like Enrique mentioned). Once we have a speed ratio fine-tuned for the main bone (rotatory) and the walking animation of each unit (via setting the animation speed in the xml ... oh, that might not be possible as it would change globally then? => so only change the rotary speed to fit the already existing horse, elephant, .. walking speed).

If we put the building into walking state (the animation needs not necessarily exist, does it? or simply use the idle one then for walking). Then the props also play the walk animation, so the ox, horse or whatever attached to the rotatory. The center bone animation also has to be the walking animation then.

Should work out of the box according to: (follow the image gate)

From my experience, a deform bone (a bone that the name doesn't start with "prop-" prefix) without influencing any vertices throws an error in atlas.

Animation states (walk, run, death, etc) are inherited by the childs (props), but not the speed of the animation. The speed is the constant that the animation loop plays when the unit enters that animation state, so the "structural" mill animation can be tuned to conform the walking donkeys separately.

[Stan`]

About the actual zebu rig in this thread:

- Not enough bones for decent animation.

- The mesh is symmetrical, but the armature is not.

- Envelope weighting is not suitalbe for accurate deformation. It needs vertex groups for each bone in order to have better control over deformations.

- Inverse Kinematics for the legs and tail would make animations much more real and easier to do.

I'll try to fix those. Unless you want to take care of it. I need to find a tutorial on Ik's.

Should I split the body in vertex groups ?

Edit : Missing two vertexes group (Left thigh rear) (right thigh rear)

- Fixed unwelded vertices (Called duplicates in blender. which leaded to holes.)

Edited April 7, 2014 by stanislas69

[Stan`]

Is that a better number @Enrique ?

I also need to know why the positions of the bone are not given relative to (0,0,0), because this is really annoying for the symmetry Issue

[Enrique]

Neck is unconnected to the spine, missing ear bones, the spine bones should not get into the hump... just follow the real skeleton of the zebu. It was you who linked me to this image?

There you have some good guidelines for the bones.

[Stan`]

Okay i lll add all of them. They wont´ be Symmetrical because blender cańt just write bone is at -1 so the other should be at +1 it says bone is at -1 and the other -0,5 while its opposite.

[Enrique]

You can do anything symmetrical in a 3D program.

[Radagast.]

Mirror depends on the origin or the mirror object you set. Though I have no idea if this works for bones too .. Edited April 8, 2014 by Hephaestion

[xrg]

It's usually easiest to use the 3D Cursor to mirror bones.

- Position 3D Cursor at the center (Shift+S -> Cursor to Center)

- Switch Pivot Point to 3D Cursor (Period Key, or the drop down on the header)

- Select the bones that need to be symmetrical

- Duplicate (Shift+D) and Cancel (Esc) so bones duplicate but aren't moved

- Mirror (Ctrl+M -> choose appropriate constraint: X, Y, or Z, click to confirm) it should use the 3D Cursor as the pivot point.

If you name things using .L or .R you can use the Flip Names option in the Armature Menu. It'll change Arm.L to Arm.R for you, but only works with that exact naming syntax.

[Stan`]

It's usually easiest to use the 3D Cursor to mirror bones.

- Position 3D Cursor at the center (Shift+S -> Cursor to Center)

- Switch Pivot Point to 3D Cursor (Period Key, or the drop down on the header)

- Select the bones that need to be symmetrical

- Duplicate (Shift+D) and Cancel (Esc) so bones duplicate but aren't moved

- Mirror (Ctrl+M -> choose appropriate constraint: X, Y, or Z, click to confirm) it should use the 3D Cursor as the pivot point.

If you name things using .L or .R you can use the Flip Names option in the Armature Menu. It'll change Arm.L to Arm.R for you, but only works with that exact naming syntax.

Thanks XRG

[Stan`]

Some progress Hope I'm not doing wrong been doing bad stuff lately. (Locked vertex groups are done). I need help on the upperbody I don't know what should affect what...

Some stuff I used for learning : Last may help for the animation.

Zebu RiggedBoner.7z

Edited April 9, 2014 by stanislas69

[Strannik]

Salute.

Stanislas69. Did you ask for help with this? If so then what do you have difficulty with?

[Stan`]

Vertex groups Could you film your rigging process on this model ? I'll need to do the same with the donkeys.

[Enrique]

Vertex groups Could you film your rigging process on this model ? I'll need to do the same with the donkeys.

Minute 13 :

[Stan`]

Thanks Enrique I need to find time to watch it.

I was wondering if he could give us the secret of the awesome animation he did for the wolf

[Enrique]

Thanks Enrique I need to find time to watch it.

I was wondering if he could give us the secret of the awesome animation he did for the wolf

My bet goes to hard work and practice... there's no secret.

[Stan`]

My bet goes to hard work and practice... there's no secret.

*Stan says no, and thinks yes*

Too bad he isn't more active, we would have all the animals in game

[Radagast.]

I think he is already quite active. You forgot the even more active? (for animation work is might be offline though )

Also I wonder when Andrew PPrice will finally help us out. Just kidding.

Btw awesome Syntagma, Enrique & Mythos. I can't help but this all 0AD development feels epic.

So active, all the devs .. and art .. plenty of new art .. UI modern .. Multiplayer, even local. The new release must feel like craziness if one doesn't use the SVN.

I have to say 0AD is the best game I have ever seen. There may be graphically better ones .. but all those license hassles and Multiplayer only online-connection <-- this being required even to use the software. Really, 0AD heightens the horizon.

Back to Zebu. Hephaestion

Edited April 24, 2014 by Hephaestion

[Strannik]

Salute.

I apologize for my very late response.

I hope that Lee's tutorial (already mentioned by Enrique) will be useful. If you have questions I'll do my best to answer.

There is no secret, magic or conspiracy. If you take a closer look at those animations you'll see that they are far from being that good.

[Stan`]

Strannik could you do the donkey animations ? Or the Zebu as you wish I'm not working on it ATM.