Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[mista_maggoo]

ok thats cool .now iv got a anotheranother question.how differant are the civs?how differant are there play stiles?are they as differant as the ones in aom?it would be awesome if there was 6 differant civs all as differant as in aom.is there anything new or any details you can tell me about each civ?how do they play differant?

[Paal_101]

It must also be said that a Roman legion travelled with no less than one ballista per century and one onager per cohort. This means that any legion in the Roman army had at its disposal 10 onagers and 59 ballista. That is a massive amount of firepower to bring to bear against any city. Multiply that by 28 legions and that brings the total paper strength of stone throwers in the field available for immediate use by local commanders across the Empire to 280 onagers and 1652 ballista at any one time.

.......Not to mention backups taken along on campaign to supplement those in the legions. Or those kept in storage at armories or fortresses for use when needed. These boys were no strangers on how to beef up their projectile's damage, increase the weapon's range, or looking for ways to make the crew more efficient.

For supplemental discussion, take a look at this topic on Roman Army Talk: http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=7160

The discussion revolves around one of the very few uses of large stone throwing siege engines in combat against infantry. Notice that only one siege engine in particular makes any sort of serious impact on the charge and that they were being used from a heavily fortified position. Ironically, it was a Roman on Roman fight, the Second Battle of Cremona.

[mista_maggoo]

ok,what about the civs?

[Mythos_Ruler]

There will be a "standard" theme to the way the civ play, however, all of them will have a distinctive style of play. Civs will be somewhere bwteen AOK and AOM in distinctiveness (kinda like AOE3, if you've played that).

[FirePowa8]

Is it too much to ask of who will have the strongest heavy infantry? I'm guessing either the Hellenes or Romans, but I'm still curious.

[Paal_101]

Technically it is the hoplites who are the strongest in terms of armor, ranking over the various legionnaires. Its a small concession for the sack of balance.

But that said, legionnaires, hoplites, and phalangites are all incredibly strong troop types, regardless of side

[mista_maggoo]

I think it's realy good that all the civs are going to be very differant.but how will they?This is what i'm asking . How do the norse play differant from the egyptions?well the norse are more of a early military civ while the egys are the boom and make a good econamy then attack civ.i know that was weird but could you do for 0ad what I just did for aom for me?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Civs won't be as different as AOM. What i mean by that is, there will be the same standard buildings, way to gather resources, same standard units, etc., however, civs won't all have the same units. Look at it this way, there is a list of standard unit types... but civs get units from this list based upon history (and balanced gameplay), so that no single civ has all of the unit types available. This will make each civ play differently militarily and is, we hope, pretty representative of each civ historically. For instance, you won't see the Hellenes commanding troops of Cavalry Archers, while you will most likely see a civ like the Persians doing so! Each civ will also have unique units ( like AOM ) that we call Super Units. These will be the uber expensive and uber strong military units of the game. Each civ will also have its own unique tech tree as well. I think you will be pleased with the differentiation we will provide, while at the same time maintaining a uniquely "0 A.D." style of play across civ profiles.

[Caesar]

Technically it is the hoplites who are the strongest in terms of armor, ranking over the various legionnaires. Its a small concession for the sack of balance.

But that said, legionnaires, hoplites, and phalangites are all incredibly strong troop types, regardless of side

The Roman Legionary was a mediocre by himself, but their real strength came from numbers- the Roman Army was built on formations and teamwork that just didnt exist in many other civs of the time, like the Celts, where everyman fights for himself.

So if theres a fight between a single Hoplite and a single Legionary, the Hoplite is gonna win (although the Hoplite's long spear will be useless if the Legionary gets close enough- then a quick thrust of his gladius can end the battle)

[Paal_101]

Definately, the Romans will be the master of one-shot-kill. Needed only 2 inches of gladius in you to kill you.

Must be mentined that hoplites were not built for one-on-one combat either, particularly their shield. The arm brace and hand grip setup made it a bad choice as a fencing shield, designed form the getgo to be used in a phalanx.

The ultimate one-on-one fighters in the ancient world had to be Iberian caetrati, Celtic swordsman, and well-equipped Germans.

[Caesar]

The theologian in me has come out again...

So, any plans to incorporate religion into 0ad? I mean, religious beliefs played a very important part in ancient civilization (well, civilization in general) and often governed the decisions and actions of military comanders.

Look at the Battle of Marathon for example- the Spartans were unable to come to the aid of the Athenians because of a religious festival. And there are many instances of rampaging armies being stopped only by an elcipse of the Sun or Moon.

So, in 0ad differant civs could have differant religions and these religions can give bonuses. Or maybe another system, but I was just wondering what part the ancient religions can play in 0ad

[Belisarivs]

The Roman Legionary was a mediocre by himself, but their real strength came from numbers- the Roman Army was built on formations and teamwork that just didnt exist in many other civs of the time, like the Celts, where everyman fights for himself.

So if theres a fight between a single Hoplite and a single Legionary, the Hoplite is gonna win (although the Hoplite's long spear will be useless if the Legionary gets close enough- then a quick thrust of his gladius can end the battle)

Well, Roman Legionary was rather strong. Romans won Punnic wars by their soldiers, not ships. And onboard they couldn't use their formations.

Hoplite would loose in fight with Legionary for sure as i was already explained.

I had an idea, but none seemed to be interested. What if Hoplites (and other pikemen) had also minimal range with their primary weapon. If Hoplites were in deeper formations, they would be very strong when facing enemy from front, but if attacked from more directions, they would loose. Also one to one wouldn't be good to use them.

This is IMHO very close to reality, because Alexander introduced cavalry to protect rear and flanks. When other generals later concentrated only in Phalanx formation and ceased to use cavalry they were often deffeated.

What do you think?

[Paal_101]

That may be very possible ingame, we will have to see how the code works out ingame. We don't have that specifically coded in as far as I know, but for sure it could be experimented with if it doesn't already occur from the programming that already exists.

As for Roman legionnaires, for sure. Definately better soldier for soldier than any other in the ancient world. My point was that a lone Roman solider versus a lighter and faster opponent would have some serious problems in terms of manueverability. He is wearing 30 pounds of chainmail and carrying a 20 pound shield. The people I've talked to on Roman Army Talk, many of them reenactors, all say that the scutum is not the ideal fencing shield and (in Roman form) is made for formation fighting. Likewise for the hoplon.

[FirePowa8]

Technically it is the hoplites who are the strongest in terms of armor, ranking over the various legionnaires. Its a small concession for the sack of balance.

But that said, legionnaires, hoplites, and phalangites are all incredibly strong troop types, regardless of side

Thanks for answering.

This doesn't necessarily apply to the game, but I'm having trouble finding the answers to. What are the traditional Carthaginian names used for their units? Such as their spearmen, swordsmen, etc (for example the terms hoplite/phalangite and ekdromos for the Hellenes). Normally I'd check the concept art of the units, yet it only reads the actual type of unit they are, rather than their names.

Also, will all the units have different stats, or say, two civilizations with unremarkable archers have the same stats as each other for those units, and will merely have different art?

[Paal_101]

Carthaginian names are in place, unfortunately I cannot spell them Aviv set us up with some amazing stuff. He could tell you more but I believe he is serving his stint in the Israeli Army atm if I am not mistaken.

As for units, each civ has its own basic stats which are somewhat standard among all the units. I.E. Celts are faster than Romans, Romans are tougher than Celts, etc. That should cut down on clone units, but obviously testing will tell.

[Caesar]

Most of the modern names for ancient soldiers, and even the ancient civilizations themselves, are their Latin names, or names derived from Latin.

If you were to apply their native names;

Persia- Aryanam (old Persian for "Land of the Aryans"- root of the word Iran)

Greeks (from the Latin Graecus)- Graikos BUT in ancient Greece they were known as Hellenes

Celts (the the Latin Celtus/Keltus although there is no record of the term being used until the 19th century, rather the Romans differantiated between the Britons, Gauls and other "Celtic" tribes)- The Celts didnt generalize their various tribes and groupings into a single race

ect.

[Caesar]

I'm curious to see how 0ad will portray elephants for the Carthaginians and Persians.

[FirePowa8]

Will the Hellenes get mahouts as well, what with the Macedonians using Indian elephants during and after Alexander's conquest?

Shouldn't the Spartiate have a bronze cuirass? They rarely wore linothorax, it's a common misconception but they preferred to wear bronze - even into the Persian wars. It was partly to prove how much tougher they were than the other city states, not to mention their tradition. Every soldier statue discovered near or in Sparta made before 450 depicts them with a bronze cuirass and the bottom 'skirt' of their tunics. This is one of the best preserved statues, dating early 5th century, so it's not 'archaic' so to speak. Also notice the locks of hair going over both sides of the shoulder.

I like the current model, just think it'd be more accurate if you made a new skin for the torso - hope that's not a hassle.

Lastly, how different are the Phalangites and Hoplites ingame? Since you said they're both very strong units, do they counter different units so as to make them both useful ingame?

By the way, great video on the main page, just what I wanted to see.

[Caesar]

I'll post this again since nobody seemed to notice it the first time

The theologian in me has come out again...

So, any plans to incorporate religion into 0ad? I mean, religious beliefs played a very important part in ancient civilization (well, civilization in general) and often governed the decisions and actions of military comanders.

Look at the Battle of Marathon for example- the Spartans were unable to come to the aid of the Athenians because of a religious festival. And there are many instances of rampaging armies being stopped only by an elcipse of the Sun or Moon.

So, in 0ad differant civs could have differant religions and these religions can give bonuses. Or maybe another system, but I was just wondering what part the ancient religions can play in 0ad

[Mythos_Ruler]

Religion will only be available in the form of priests that act like healers (AOK-style). There might also be religious technologies, but those are civ-specific.

[FirePowa8]

From the main page:

revision: 3817

author: michael

date: 2006-04-25

Committed an edit of the Spartan Super Unit actor to take advantage of the new Spartiate texture by Brownboot.

Does this mean my suggestion got across?

[Paal_101]

In a way yes, it was becoming hard to tell Spartiates from standard hoplites, hence the change.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Absolutely. Actually, I might have brought up the bronze cuirass thing before you did, FirePowa8, but you couldn't have known that since it was on the private staff forums. Like what Paul said, the Spartiate and Elite Hoplite just looked too similar. The Spartiate definately does look more "badass" now with the muscled cuirass. Sometime this summer we might start some "unit showcases" - a kind of "show and tell" about specific units we want to show off to you guys. The Spartiate is definately one I'd like to showcase.

[FirePowa8]

Excellent. Yes, I agree that the hoplite and Spartiate looked too similar in the screenshots they both appear on, the only big difference was the lamtha on their aspis, which can only be really only be seen about 50% of the time.

Glad the change got across. Can't wait for these showcases, assuming they'll happen.

[Zeeky_Bombard]

My lords,

I'd like to have shallows in the game, not the AOK version but more like the rivers in RON. Just give it cool graphics in which all the units wade through with small splashes, move slower, and take 2x damage.

Also, there is a chance that (15% maybe), when a shallow crosser is attacked, it takes 3x damage and is knocked down, causing it to take 3x damage, removes all attack and movement, and takes about 5 seconds to get up. This would not apply to seige and maybe heavy cavalry.

Then, you can also place cointaners of buring pitch on top of walls/towers and have a chance to ignite enemy units. Attacked could climb onto the wall/tower and use the pitch to their advantage. Some seige weapons would also be able to use it (remember the awesome alchemy catapults in the AOE 1 intro)?

Then, you can maybe have a blacksmith/armory upgrade building like in AOK/AOM for researching upgrades, as well as creating personalized weapons. You can bring a soldier to your blacksmith and pay a certain amount of ore (can't we call it metal ) and the smith will create a custom weapon for that specific soldier, taking, say, 45 seconds. The soldier can later pich up the weapon for x1.5 attack. If the soldier is killed before he picks up the weapon, it goes to waste. It wouldn't be too effective for citizen soldiers and the such, but great for heroes.

Then, you can have a plow or something (I'm not too great with history of the time period) that you use to sow salt in fields, effectively destroying and ruining the terrain so that a new farm cannot be built on that location.

And, um...

Make the walls big. And cool. And have stone walls only able to be attacked by seige (like in RAF).

Can't think of anything else...

Oh! Make a "home guard" type of building that makes free (weak) militia when enemies go near it. Maybe make it unique to the Spartans (are they even in the game?) because the had the *insert big word I forgot here* (slaves) that fought too (I think).

Um...

Do you know if nvdia gforce 6800 supports the OpenGL thing, cause I never heard of it before?

BTW CheeZy, your AOM stuff owns. Everyone, go buy AOM and play his stuff to pass the time

Edited May 6, 2006 by Zeeky_Bombard