Ways to differentiate gameplay for each faction

[Mythos_Ruler]

With Alpha 15 nearly upon us, I started to think recently about ways to differentiate the gameplay for each faction. Not to just give bonuses and techs (although those are important), but to really change how each one plays compared to the others. I have a few ideas I would like to share (and a couple I have already implemented on my local copy of the developers version of the game). During our discussion here, I can add the more interesting and feasible and sensible ideas to the list.

Athenians

Technologies: Let's really leverage their Gymnasion. I'd like to give them a whole new interesting tech tree just there at the Gymnasion. I start to detail some cool stuff here, and continue adding ideas in this thread: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16631&p=273189

Ditto goes for their navy. I was thinking of giving their Docks a tech that unlocks ship repair when the ship is near the dock (basically right next to it). That's detailed in the link above as well.

Britons

War Dogs: I think it would be neat to have 2 different breeds of War Dogs available at the Kennel, Mastiff and Wolfhound. Each one would have different bonuses. Maybe you have to unlock one or the other. And perhaps the Britons start each match with a free Kennel.

Carthaginians

I think Carthage plays uniquely already, with their ethnic Embassies and their Naval Shipyard. How can we make the Naval Shipyard more interesting?

Gauls

Ideas?

Iberians

Implementing some kind of "Ambush" ability is key for these guys. They already get the free set of circuit walls at the start of the match. I think an Ambush ability would round them out nicely. The problem is making it useful and easy to use and not overcomplicating its use. The easiest way would be to just give Iberian units a large attack bonus vs. enemy units in column formation, so that when an enemy column is marching by, the Iberian player can attack its flanks and induce a lot of casualties.

Harder would be to give a "real" ambush ability where the Iberian units become invisible to enemy players somehow until the trap is sprung. The key here would be to make it worthwhile for the Iberian player to use this ability at all, because while they are lying in wait for the enemy, they're not doing anything else useful.

Also, flaming munitions, like javelins. Would be nice to be able unlock this and have enemy units or structures become engulfed in flames and steadily lose health for a period of time.

Macedonians

Macedonians could be our "baseline" civ where they're just a pretty good example of default gameplay. Except for the fact that they should get a Siege Workshop for all of their siege engines.

Mauryans

I think the Mauryans play uniquely already, with their large number of champions and abundance of elephant units, especially the Worker Elephant. Adding the "animal capture" feature as planned will really make these guys interesting (capturing Elephants and Horses to give training bonuses to elephant units and cavalry).

Another idea is we can somehow include their caste system in the game.

Persians

These guys play differently already, with their Stables and Palace. Could maybe reduce their infantry health further and consequently add some more training speed techs to really turn them into the Zerglings originally envisioned.

Ptolemies

Military Settlements. In my local copy of the game I've made the Ptolemies start with a Civic Center as normal, but instead of building additional Civic Centers to expand, they build their Military Settlements instead. Military Settlements are then the Ptolemies' chief method of expansion. They are weaker than the main Civic Center and cast a smaller territory influence, but are cheaper and build faster. It means they can expand quicker, but their expansions are also more vulnerable.

I also moved the Lighthouse to Town Phase to really make its desired bonus (lifting black map off all water) have an impact for the Ptolemy player.

Romans

They have the Army Camp, which is an interesting structure, as it can be built within enemy territory. Same goes for their Siege Walls. So, how can we make these things more useful and used more by good players?

Marian Reforms: Can we include this somehow? Becomes available in City Phase and once researched all infantry turn into Marian Legionnaires (champion infantry)?

Could we have the Romans start each map with a free Temple of Vesta and then give it some kind of bonus (like greatly increased unit and building stats around it)? Maybe then it is a game-loser for the Roman player if it is destroyed.

Seleucids

Hellenistic Reforms: I was thinking of giving the Seleucids a choice once they reach City Phase of unlocking a "Traditional Army" or "Reform Army." Each one would unlock different champions and techs. For instance:

Traditional Army

• Agema Phalangite
• Scythe Chariot

Reform Army

• Romanized Swordsman
• Greek Cataphract

They also have Stables, like the Persians. So, overall, I think they'll be a nice unique faction.

Spartans

I think we should keep it simple with the Spartans. But maybe leverage their 3-tier cultural hierarchy (Peers -> Perioikoi -> Helots) somehow.

[wraitii]

Interesting ideas generally. I fear the iberian ambush would make the AI weaker, but well we'd have to live with that.

One general thing we could do to differentiate the civs more is change how they gather resources. Mauryans have the elephant, which is fairly nice. Perhaps we could make some civs more herding/corraling oriented and others more farming oriented (which would make those options actually different, too). I feel like fish could play a greater role too, but naval combat isn't perfect anyhow.

This could be a way to differentiate britons/gauls from the others (or just the gauls), for example. It wouldn't be 100% realistic, but interesting enough.

The roman army fort could perhaps give a very small territory radius, so very aggressive players might try to plot others things along when they've succeeded?

I like the ptolemies differentiation. Perhaps they could be built in village phase (but cost more)? Dunno, might be too much of a gamebreaker.

As per Carthage, making naval shipyard more interesting means making ships less useless, imo.

[Lion.Kanzen]

We can start to implement unique tech tree in their special buildings.

Yesterday I was read an article in AEO heaven site, be can get bonus for tech example a tech for naval speed 33% (AOE I )

This for Atenians and Carthaginians.

For Romans can have auxiliar tech and if the army Camp have garrison units inside don't lose points. But can be more weak.

For Britons can have Druids that use attacks to defend their people. Gauls can have better metalworking tech even more cheap.

Iberian can ambush in forest or in high grass.

Ptolemies are fine may be camel rider more cheaper or farmland more cheaper but slow

Persian have an other building with some extra units, be can force to choose beteween the sb1 and sb2.

Seleucid can be like the Macedonians in AOE ( powerful army but gold depended)

Spartans I don't like play with them but can be have more group fighting bonus or some special auras effects:

If are in a group have more defense stats, and may be a flautist unit or tech to increases this stats.

Mauryan can capture elephants and have a ability to killer shoot for archer, you know like a ghost in SC2. Or Sniper in AOE 3. A shoot that down a lot of HP.

And Poison maiden ability.

Basically we can have our factions for Deathmatch ( expensive units and building) and other for normal maps ( fast gaming rush with chequera units.)

[ProvencalLeGaullois]

for Gaul I would like something more focused on economy and farming. They invented woodden barrel (they were very good woodworkers and blacksmiths), very good farmers, got a big livestock.

Their mothers were well know to be good nurses (some kind of baby-sitter, I'm not sure about how to translate...). They shouldn't have to much technologies because they could not write.

maybe reducing the price of food, wood and iron would be interresting (not for stone). It would be maybe interesting to let the choice (like a technology) for the player to have a bonus for the trade at the market or a bonus for trade between two markets.

Another thing, they used guerrilla too, because iberians do guerrilla, may be it would be interesting to have some traps to build to wound and to slow enemies

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ok here is the link.

http://aoe.heavengames.com/academy/civs/CivilisationsIndex.shtml#links

Is there are ideas in this case civ a guide, they propuse ideas how play with AOE I Civs, and its not bad idea how the players uses bonus to play Deathmatch and normal maps , in single or multiplayer.

For those don't get the idea, it's simple read some bonus from AOE I based in the weak or strong stats and bonus from some civilization, example :

"The strongest units are the (slow) Academy units and Elephants with 25 % more hitpoints and the super Fire Galleys with 25 % more attack strength. "

We can give to cavalry units 25% more attack , academy units is the equivalent to champion spearman we can do it 25%.

And they talk about what civs are strong in early ages ( phases in our context) .

And how you can do a team with other civ. In other words all an strategy.

The players are looking for that, the the weak from a faction, the the strong and when and how counterattack.

[Prodigal Son]

With Alpha 15 nearly upon us, I started to think recently about ways to differentiate the gameplay for each faction. Not to just give bonuses and techs (although those are important), but to really change how each one plays compared to the others. I have a few ideas I would like to share (and a couple I have already implemented on my local copy of the developers version of the game). During our discussion here, I can add the more interesting and feasible and sensible ideas to the list.

Athenians

Technologies: Let's really leverage their Gymnasion. I'd like to give them a whole new interesting tech tree just there at the Gymnasion. I start to detail some cool stuff here, and continue adding ideas in this thread: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16631&p=273189

Ditto goes for their navy. I was thinking of giving their Docks a tech that unlocks ship repair when the ship is near the dock (basically right next to it). That's detailed in the link above as well.

• How about an Iphicratian Reform buffing peltasts and marines and maybe unlocking the city guard (under a new name?)

Britons

War Dogs: I think it would be neat to have 2 different breeds of War Dogs available at the Kennel, Mastiff and Wolfhound. Each one would have different bonuses. Maybe you have to unlock one or the other. And perhaps the Britons start each match with a free Kennel.

• I've had the idea of dogs as zerglings, weak, cheap and fast, but a mass army of dogs might look weird.

Carthaginians

I think Carthage plays uniquely already, with their ethnic Embassies and their Naval Shipyard. How can we make the Naval Shipyard more interesting?

• The naval shipyard could be given an attack, extra hit points and the ability to garrison a number of ships. Maybe it could be limited to one and give the dock the ability to train warships as well.
• They already have too many units, but maybe Mauritanian Archers and Numidian Cavalry could be replaced by some Lybian skirmisher and Levy Cavalry in the civ center and moved to the barracks only, for more realism (Towns training native units).

Gauls

Ideas?

• A Pillage ability to gain resources by attacking structures. Do they have it already?
• Did you add the trimarcisia tech? It could be extended to more cavalry units than just the champion and coupled with the pillage ability make a rapid raiding force that strikes, generates resources (or just raids workers), retreats nearby to take advantage of the superior regeneration rate and strikes again.

Iberians

Implementing some kind of "Ambush" ability is key for these guys. They already get the free set of circuit walls at the start of the match. I think an Ambush ability would round them out nicely. The problem is making it useful and easy to use and not overcomplicating its use. The easiest way would be to just give Iberian units a large attack bonus vs. enemy units in column formation, so that when an enemy column is marching by, the Iberian player can attack its flanks and induce a lot of casualties.

Harder would be to give a "real" ambush ability where the Iberian units become invisible to enemy players somehow until the trap is sprung. The key here would be to make it worthwhile for the Iberian player to use this ability at all, because while they are lying in wait for the enemy, they're not doing anything else useful.

Also, flaming munitions, like javelins. Would be nice to be able unlock this and have enemy units or structures become engulfed in flames and steadily lose health for a period of time.

• Ambush could be an ability making them invisible near trees and even behind low hills that normally wouldn't block LOS.
• Could allow them to move while on ambush, but have it available only for some light troops for balance.

Macedonians

Macedonians could be our "baseline" civ where they're just a pretty good example of default gameplay. Except for the fact that they should get a Siege Workshop for all of their siege engines.

• A "Perseus Reform" could arm pikemen with chainmail giving them extra armor or hitpoints
• A Royal Peltasts tech could rearm hypaspists with javelin and sword giving macedonians a missing unit class
• They made much use of Thracians, especially later on. Could give them the Blackcloak unit or a tech for phalanx train speed representing incorporation of Thracians in the phalanx.

Mauryans

I think the Mauryans play uniquely already, with their large number of champions and abundance of elephant units, especially the Worker Elephant. Adding the "animal capture" feature as planned will really make these guys interesting (capturing Elephants and Horses to give training bonuses to elephant units and cavalry).

Another idea is we can somehow include their caste system in the game.

• I'm in favor of chariots as non-Champions. (for other civs as well). Maybe a scyrite-like one-rank unit. And make both elephants champions.

Persians

These guys play differently already, with their Stables and Palace. Could maybe reduce their infantry health further and consequently add some more training speed techs to really turn them into the Zerglings originally envisioned.

• Could do with Sparabara, maybe reducing their cost as well. Then on phase II or III could give them the Kardakes or a hoplite mercenary as a non-champion, but more reliable line infantry.
• See Mauryan chariot idea.
• I'd give them the elephant as champion as well, even if rarely used. And/Or a scythian horse archer, which was more commonly used.
• Maybe we could have a large empires trait for some civs: Persian, Seleucid, Mauryan (and maybe Egypt?) which would give all of them more champions than normal.

Ptolemies

Military Settlements. In my local copy of the game I've made the Ptolemies start with a Civic Center as normal, but instead of building additional Civic Centers to expand, they build their Military Settlements instead. Military Settlements are then the Ptolemies' chief method of expansion. They are weaker than the main Civic Center and cast a smaller territory influence, but are cheaper and build faster. It means they can expand quicker, but their expansions are also more vulnerable.

I also moved the Lighthouse to Town Phase to really make its desired bonus (lifting black map off all water) have an impact for the Ptolemy player.

• Could use a non-native phalanx unit instead. And have machimoi pikemen as a cheaper and faster trained alternative on phase II or III, appearing later on as in history.
• Can military settlements deposit resources?
• How about an auxilary/mercenary camp with the nabataean camels and nubian archers, replacing those with some skirmisher and levy cavalry for the civ center. Seems more realistic to me. (Towns training native units).
• Could use a Thracian Unit.

Romans

They have the Army Camp, which is an interesting structure, as it can be built within enemy territory. Same goes for their Siege Walls. So, how can we make these things more useful and used more by good players?

Marian Reforms: Can we include this somehow? Becomes available in City Phase and once researched all infantry turn into Marian Legionnaires (champion infantry)?

Could we have the Romans start each map with a free Temple of Vesta and then give it some kind of bonus (like greatly increased unit and building stats around it)? Maybe then it is a game-loser for the Roman player if it is destroyed.

• Army camp and siege walls could be made cheaper or faster to build if they're not currently used I guess. (Btw I've read that romans took the fortified army camp idea from Pyrrhus, so I guess Hellenistic kingdoms often used those as well).
• Marian reforms could be a major change: Hastatii/Princeps, Triarii and Extraordinarii turned into Marian Legionaries, trained at barracks, fort and army camp from now on. Could also replace all of the cavalry arm with gallic/numidian (even germanic) auxiliaries, which were the backbone of roman cavalry in the later times BC. Lastly Velites could turn to auxiliary skirmishers while some auxiliary light spearmen (weaker than triarii) and auxiliary cretan/syrian archers are added. It should be an expensive tech, strengthening sword and missile troops while weakening spearmen and improving citizen cavalry while losing the champion cavalry.
• I'm strongly in favor of a logistics tech either giving a reduced train time bonus to infantry or reducing their population cost (to half or something). Romans should have a way of fielding or replacing heavy infantry easier/faster than other factions.

Seleucids

Hellenistic Reforms: I was thinking of giving the Seleucids a choice once they reach City Phase of unlocking a "Traditional Army" or "Reform Army." Each one would unlock different champions and techs. For instance:

Traditional Army

• Agema Phalangite
• Scythe Chariot

Reform Army

• Romanized Swordsman
• Greek Cataphract

They also have Stables, like the Persians. So, overall, I think they'll be a nice unique faction.

• Again, I'm in favor of chariots as non champions.
• Companion/Agema Cavalry should be a champion instead, maybe replaced as a normal unit by Thessialian/Macedonian/Galatian or some eastern cavalry. They could be in the traditional reform army, backing the slower elite phalanx (should be silvershields imo, agema pikes should be macedonian late era/ptolemaic), while the thorakite/romanized swords form a more average speed army together with the slower than companions but better armored cataphracts.
• Or could overall go with my large empires idea and add them all.
• Or Cataphracts could be a tech upgrade for Companions sacrificing speed for armor.
• Could use a Galatian unit.

Spartans

I think we should keep it simple with the Spartans. But maybe leverage their 3-tier cultural hierarchy (Peers -> Perioikoi -> Helots) somehow.

• I think Pikemen should come as a "Cleomenian Reform" of the Spartan Hoplites not together with them (or maybe the perioikoi hoplites as well). Skyrites then could be made a full champion unit.
• What I use (or plan to) in my warcraft mod is Spartan Hoplites, while elite, being available from phase I. As the limited landowning class though, they are limited to 1 per farm (could also make them 1 per farm + house if needed to limit them even more). So the Spartan player can choose to have a very small elite army early on. In my mod they'll also have an aura increasing allied attack/attack speed a little and maybe one doing the opposite to enemy units, representing them being valued/feared (btw I do the later with elephants as well). That could also be an effect of the agoge tech.
• Then later on phase III, the pike reform allows for a slightly weaker (without the aura bonuses) but "unlimited" heavy infantry, representing the incorporation of perioikoi and even helots in the phalanx.
• A triple tech could distinguish the 3 classes. One traditionalist buffing Spartan units, one "rights/land reform" buffing the perioikoi and one "release of some slaves/apeleutheroi" buffing helot units.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Lion.Kanzen]

With Gauls. History (Wikipedia) says: about Chainmal / Lorica Hamata

The earliest example of mail was found in a Celtic chieftain's burial located in Ciumeşti, Romania.[1] Its invention is commonly credited to the Celts,[2] but there are examples of Etruscan pattern mail predating from at least the 4th century BC.[3][4][5] Mail may have been inspired by the much earlier scale armour.[6][7] Mail spread to North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, India, Tibet, Korea and Japan.

The use of mail as battlefield armour was common during the Iron Age and the Middle Ages, becoming less common over the course of the 16th and 17th centuries. It is believed that the Roman Republic first came into contact with mail fighting the Gauls in Cisalpine Gaul, now Northern Italy,[13] but even earlier in time, different pattern of chain mail was already in use among the Etruscans. The Roman army adopted the technology for their troops in the form of the lorica hamata which was used as a primary form of armour through the Imperial period.

[nylki]

I kinda like this idea from Prodigal Son, regarding Spartan Hoplites. Making a limited amount available from the beginning. -> Limited by house size for example.

Spartans

• What I use (or plan to) in my warcraft mod is Spartan Hoplites, while elite, being available from phase I. As the limited landowning class though, they are limited to 1 per farm (could also make them 1 per farm + house if needed to limit them even more). So the Spartan player can choose to have a very small elite army early on. In my mod they'll also have an aura increasing allied attack/attack speed a little and maybe one doing the opposite to enemy units, representing them being valued/feared (btw I do the later with elephants as well). That could also be an effect of the agoge tech.

Besides that, the Iberian Ambush ideas of mythos and the others (being able to stay invisible near trees, or staying invisible, when not moving, until an opponent unit is eg. only 5 meters away from them), sounds like a quite interesting addition.

Edited December 21, 2013 by nylki

[ProvencalLeGaullois]

With Gauls. History (Wikipedia) says: about Chainmal / Lorica Hamata

The earliest example of mail was found in a Celtic chieftain's burial located in Ciumeşti, Romania.[1] Its invention is commonly credited to the Celts,[2] but there are examples of Etruscan pattern mail predating from at least the 4th century BC.[3][4][5] Mail may have been inspired by the much earlier scale armour.[6][7] Mail spread to North Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, India, Tibet, Korea and Japan.

The use of mail as battlefield armour was common during the Iron Age and the Middle Ages, becoming less common over the course of the 16th and 17th centuries. It is believed that the Roman Republic first came into contact with mail fighting the Gauls in Cisalpine Gaul, now Northern Italy,[13] but even earlier in time, different pattern of chain mail was already in use among the Etruscans. The Roman army adopted the technology for their troops in the form of the lorica hamata which was used as a primary form of armour through the Imperial period.

iirc the roman helmet is (or partially) celt.

[Mythos_Ruler]

What if the Spartan player receives 1 free Spartiate per house built (houses can be slightly more expensive)? Something like that.

[Prodigal Son]

Could work this way yes. However limiting them instead would include a training phase which is quite a must for Spartans.

Edit: Also tying them to one per farm (or one per farm + house) would work as a risky/limiting factor for the early game. You'll have the options to:

• Go for a classic playstyle, without phase I champions.
• Risking your economy by going full on early farming and abusing your wood production to field the biggest Spartan hoplite force possible.
• Try to find a balance between the two.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[newcivs]

i have an idea to carthage, Carthage on 2nd punic war controled 65% of iberian peninsula,i think that on barracks we can put a technology for train iberian units on barracks

and garrison soldiers on embassies

[Lion.Kanzen]

iirc the roman helmet is (or partially) celt.

Yes, they can be have a big advantage in early phase with the armor.

The gauls must be the. Best factions to start , i mean in early stage as I say before they can be the best or one the best in early stages.

.

[Lion.Kanzen]

What if the Spartan player receives 1 free Spartiate per house built (houses can be slightly more expensive)? Something like that.

it's close... A Spartites per house vs aura effect by musicians?

i have an idea to carthage, Carthage on 2nd punic war controled 65% of iberian peninsula,i think that on barracks we can put a technology for train iberian units on barracks

and garrison soldiers on embassies

65% are you sure?

[LordGood]

having Celtic and Iberian armies walk in rigid, structured formation seems just silly to me. Breaks immersion. I'd like the civilizations to 'feel' more different

It would be nice to throw these out before formations are really worked on. Perhaps giving citizen soldiers and champion celt-iberian units the option, but have the default set to no formation (perhaps with the exception of the Greeks, Romans, and Carthaginians) and have their formations be a little sloppy.

like unstructured vs disciplined formations in American conquest

[Mythos_Ruler]

having Celtic and Iberian armies walk in rigid, structured formation seems just silly to me. Breaks immersion. I'd like the civilizations to 'feel' more different

It would be nice to throw these out before formations are really worked on. Perhaps giving citizen soldiers and champion celt-iberian units the option, but have the default set to no formation (perhaps with the exception of the Greeks, Romans, and Carthaginians) and have their formations be a little sloppy.

like unstructured vs disciplined formations in American conquest

Better yet would be to have a "discipline" element in the unit XML templates. The more discipline they have, the more organized they are in formation. Maybe 0.1 - 1.0.

[sanderd17]

Having their formations a little sloppy won't be that easy to do in the code (though still possible, but it might make the code a bit more ugly). It might be better to do it in the art. If you give the units some different shields, and longer and shorter spears and stuff, the formation will look sloppier by itself.

But I think we should consider having them fight absolutely without formations. I plan to add a "no formation" option anyway, so we can add things to formations, even break gameplay a bit, but not be too annoying as you can still play without formations.

[LordGood]

varying equipment will not compensate for soldiers standing in perfect rows, most formations will have varied soldier types anyway.

maybe less responsive soldiers, be annoying but possibly easier to code

[sanderd17]

maybe less responsive soldiers, be annoying but possibly easier to code

These are the sort of things that happen by accident

[Mythos_Ruler]

Fighting outside of formation in this time period meant certain death. It meant you had lost cohesion and hence the battle. It's one thing to lose cohesion in the middle of a charge, but it's another thing to have your dudes just mobbing everywhere out of formation. It really shouldn't be that hard to implement a "discipline" factor that makes a formation look a little sloppy. Rome:Total War had it 8 years ago. I believe RTW did it with grayscale PNGs (black specs being slots where soldiers stand in), so it's a bit different than what I propose. I remember talking about this kind of thing with Philip more than once and he always acted like it was reasonable.

If anything, soldiers should be using formations even more than they do now. Let's not strip out formations just to solve some buggy behavior. Let's fix the buggy behavior.

[Mythos_Ruler]

maybe less responsive soldiers, be annoying but possibly easier to code

Having some units only able to use the "aggressive" stance could simulate this. For instance, Thracian Swordsmen and other undisciplined, eager troops could default exclusively to Aggressive, while most other soldiers default to Defensive.

[sanderd17]

Fighting outside of formation in this time period meant certain death. It meant you had lost cohesion and hence the battle. It's one thing to lose cohesion in the middle of a charge, but it's another thing to have your dudes just mobbing everywhere out of formation. It really shouldn't be that hard to implement a "discipline" factor that makes a formation look a little sloppy. Rome:Total War had it 8 years ago. I believe RTW did it with grayscale PNGs (black specs being slots where soldiers stand in), so it's a bit different than what I propose. I remember talking about this kind of thing with Philip more than once and he always acted like it was reasonable.

If anything, soldiers should be using formations even more than they do now. Let's not strip out formations just to solve some buggy behavior. Let's fix the buggy behavior.

I want to use formations more. Like attack with the entire formation. I'd like to see two phalanx formations fighting each other. But that will cause some problems. So first adding an option to disable formations in the game could help.

[Zeta1127]

Athenians

I like Mythos_Ruler's suggestions, though of course all of the Hellenic factions need a functional Phalanx Formation.

Britons

I like the idea of two types of War Dogs and the free Kennel.

Carthaginians

I believe the Naval Shipyard should also get the tech pair suggested for the Athenians and/or the ability to garrison ships in the Naval Shipyard for repair, something to make them the naval power they were demonstrated to be throughout history. Also, I would like them to be able to garrison 10 troops in their wall towers as I believe it was planned. The animal capture feature is of course needed.

Gauls

Since they recently received the Tavern and Naked Fanatics, I think something could be done with them, though I don't really have any ideas since I haven't got to use them yet.

Iberians

Tactical Guerrilla aura and Flaming Javelins are definitely needed, basically what is already planned for them.

Macedonians

I really like them as they are, since they basically have everything except a Cavalry Archer and Syntagma Formation not functioning yet. And somebody needs to get the Thracian Black Cloak, if not the Macedonians then someone else.

Mauryans

They really just need what is already planned for them.

Persians

I like Mythos_Ruler's suggestions. I also like the idea of giving them a Champion Elephant and the Scythian Cavalry Archer.

Ptolemies

Can they also build more Civic Centers in addition to the Military Settlements?

Romans

A functional Testudo Formation and possibly the Marian Reforms is all they need, though I don't like the idea of the Entrenched Army Camp and Siege Walls being completely temporary.

Seleucids

I like Mythos_Ruler's suggestions for the Hellenic Reforms.

Spartans

I like the suggestion of a free Spartan Hoplite for each House built, though I also like the old idea for The Agoge of the Barracks and Military Mess Halls providing a population bonus.

Thebans

I still say the Thebans could be interesting, especially since they are the other major Hellenic power during the City-States period, so it seems like it would be a disservice to the time period not to include them eventually. Though this isn't the place for such discussion.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Zeta1127

[newcivs]

the britons should be very bad on open terrainsd but powerful on forests!, such as the gauls, but with moderated efffects

britons on open terrain:

britons: open lan =-5 armor

gauls: open land =-2 armor

[hollth]

I personally think it would be better to explore differentiating them through leveraging mechanics other than tech buildings and units. That more than anything else would change the feel of the civilisation. I think this would also be a good opportunity to work in some of the mechanics that are a little lacking if it can be done. Having only Celts utilise the loot mechanic or something like that, for example, alters the feel more.

There's only so many differences in (sub)type from you can add from the the same group before they feel like differences in size. Eventually you need a different, different type.

I don't know enough about the history of these civilisations to know what is quintessential about each one so I don't actually have anything to offer beyond that advice.

Edit: I should've explained what I mean by difference in type and size. Difference in size is when something gets bigger/stronger or more numerous etc. E.g an arcade game has more monster to kill with each level. Differences in type is just that. Something new. A new monster to kill. Unique techs buildings units etc are all differences in type. However, when you put so many in they become closer to the feel of a difference in size because they ARE, just of a higher up type. They're still differences in type but of a more subtle flavour.

I'm saying define what is characteristic of each civilisation in a few words and try to bring it alive through other avenues than units etc. What makes Sparta ? Elite warriors? Make Sparta the only ones to gain xp. What about Persia? Trade? Give them a trading system that nobody else has.

Edited December 22, 2013 by hollth