Ideas from veteran RTS player

[Herrhals]

This game looks really neat, and I look forward to playing it. It really brings back the nostalgia of AOE2. I just have a few suggestions/comments. My favorite parts I have seen are the formations, and the warrior gathering resources. I'm assuming everything has a hotkey, right. Like the different formations, buildings, orders, etc?

Resource gathering:

My biggest vice with AOE2 was the resource collection. You had limited wood, stone, food, and gold sources, and had to constantly micro-manage citizens around to find new sources (especially for wood).

-Empire earth had a nice system of unlimited resources at each point, but limited number of citizens could work it.

-Rise of Nations had an even better, and less micro-managing gather system, where additional citizens would increase the collection rate which would be displayed as a number ("+45/90" gathering +45 food every 30 seconds, out of a max gathering rate of 90), and technology and ideas would increase the maximum collection rate of different resource types. Rise of Nations had the best system of any RTS, and 0 AD should definitely implement it. It allows for more concentration on military strategy and gameplay.

Trade routes:

I haven't seen any mention, but having caravans going between cities/ civic buildings would generate gold/metal income depending on distance between the points.

Territory:

Should be more beneficial to gain. In RoN, there was the concept of attrition for unsupplied armies in foreign territory. Civ traits and technologies would increase or decrease the rate. You also can not build buildings in territory not your own.

These are just a few suggestions I have. I will leave them here for discussion.

Herrhals

Edited December 16, 2013 by Herrhals

[niektb]

Trade caravans in RoN travelled between cities, but in RoN you manage a whole empire. In 0 A.D. you manage a city, so in my opinion I wouldn't fit in the game's style. But it would be an idea to implement trade routes like in AoE3.

[Herrhals]

Trade caravans in RoN travelled between cities, but in RoN you manage a whole empire. In 0 A.D. you manage a city, so in my opinion I wouldn't fit in the game's style. But it would be an idea to implement trade routes like in AoE3.

Makes sense. I just don't like the prospect of a map eventually being void of resources. At least with gold/metal, you can buy stuff at the market. Also, from the reviews, it looks like the prices change too violently from purchasing other materials.

[hollth]

In this game you can trade between two markets or a market and dock

[Lion.Kanzen]

Trade caravans in RoN travelled between cities, but in RoN you manage a whole empire. In 0 A.D. you manage a city, so in my opinion I wouldn't fit in the game's style. But it would be an idea to implement trade routes like in AoE3.

I never try to use trade feature in AOE 3, what is new?

[Andrettin]

I never try to use trade feature in AOE 3, what is new?

If I remember right, there would be preset trade routes in the map (that would begin and end in its edges), and you could build trading posts in certain spots along the trade route, gaining benefits from that (gold/coin I think).

[Lion.Kanzen]

If I remember right, there would be preset trade routes in the map (that would begin and end in its edges), and you could build trading posts in certain spots along the trade route, gaining benefits from that (gold/coin I think).

The trading post idea, I love that one, is one my favorites because you can train mercenaries and special techs.

[Mythos_Ruler]

The trading post idea, I love that one, is one my favorites because you can train mercenaries and special techs.

That's actually a little different than what he's talking about. You're talking about native tribes, while he's talking about the fixed trade route in AOE3.

[Lion.Kanzen]

That's actually a little different than what he's talking about. You're talking about native tribes, while he's talking about the fixed trade route in AOE3.

The train rail? Don't? Yeah I remember, but that feature was for Xp points and rare resources?

[niektb]

The train rail? Don't? Yeah I remember, but that feature was for Xp points and rare resources?

Normally XP, but after upgrading the route you could choose the resources you wanted.

[Herrhals]

Hmm I'm more interested in seeing the resource gathering suggestion I gave being implemented.

I gave the game a run, and the resources are way too hectic to micro, especially the trees. I'm clearing and chopping trees faster than I can find new tree stands, and I find my citiZens walking far and wide to chop indefensible wood. And yes, I really am using all that wood

I like to be able to focus on military combat and strategies.

[LordGood]

This isn't a total war game, it draws equally from economic and military maintenance

I'm less inclined to expand militarily and focus on economic expansion and city building. I like those kinds of games.

It gives a human limit to the amount of involvement in either field, and makes each game new and interesting.

rather than the unlimited resource stalemate that would usually occur if allowed. (ie. american conquest, stronghold series)

don't get me wrong; I love those games, but this isn't one of them.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Hmm I'm more interested in seeing the resource gathering suggestion I gave being implemented.

I gave the game a run, and the resources are way too hectic to micro, especially the trees. I'm clearing and chopping trees faster than I can find new tree stands, and I find my citiZens walking far and wide to chop indefensible wood. And yes, I really am using all that wood

I like to be able to focus on military combat and strategies.

example of that? I'm very experienced too.

[Herrhals]

This isn't a total war game, it draws equally from economic and military maintenance

I'm less inclined to expand militarily and focus on economic expansion and city building. I like those kinds of games.

It gives a human limit to the amount of involvement in either field, and makes each game new and interesting.

rather than the unlimited resource stalemate that would usually occur if allowed. (ie. american conquest, stronghold series)

don't get me wrong; I love those games, but this isn't one of them.

The resource gathering from RoN was not stale at all despite being "unlimited". Each resource could only be gathered by a finite number of citizens, and one would have to expand, sometimes a lot, in order to find new sources to gather from. One couldn't max out resource gathering in the first age, because of the gathering maximum. This maximum is increased as you increase commerce tech. All of the sudden now, there is a need to refocus on economy, even in the middle and late game.

Correct me if I am wrong, but early rushes with most civilizations (I haven't explored them all), is not feasible. The optimal strategy now is to early game pump out 60 citizens before anything else, and let them loose, and then focus on military and age expansion. My gripe is more with having to micromanage citizens gathering, because stone, and wood resources are depleted incredible quickly, and you find citizens walking to obscure places to get the resources.

My suggestions:

-unlimited mining of stone, wood and metal resources, but limit number of citizens able to work, and cut gathering rate. That way, there is still an incentive to explore and fight for new resources without having to micro-manage citizens. You have done this already with the farming, and I like that!

With the above, you can place fewer resources on the map, and make it fun to fight over the resources, instead of only fighting each other's bases.

-More options to increase territory, not just cc's.

Thank you.

example of that? I'm very experienced too.

Example of which, specifically?

[Lion.Kanzen]

The resource gathering from RoN was not stale at all despite being "unlimited". Each resource could only be gathered by a finite number of citizens, and one would have to expand, sometimes a lot, in order to find new sources to gather from. One couldn't max out resource gathering in the first age, because of the gathering maximum. This maximum is increased as you increase commerce tech. All of the sudden now, there is a need to refocus on economy, even in the middle and late game.

Correct me if I am wrong, but early rushes with most civilizations (I haven't explored them all), is not feasible. The optimal strategy now is to early game pump out 60 citizens before anything else, and let them loose, and then focus on military and age expansion. My gripe is more with having to micromanage citizens gathering, because stone, and wood resources are depleted incredible quickly, and you find citizens walking to obscure places to get the resources.

My suggestions:

-unlimited mining of stone, wood and metal resources, but limit number of citizens able to work, and cut gathering rate. That way, there is still an incentive to explore and fight for new resources without having to micro-manage citizens. You have done this already with the farming, and I like that!

With the above, you can place fewer resources on the map, and make it fun to fight over the resources, instead of only fighting each other's bases.

-More options to increase territory, not just cc's.

Thank you.

Example of which, specifically?

Ok now you answer, RON mechanic, huh? But you now units in RON the cost of each units for example swordman increase for each units pursached, example 12 to 14 charged to next. This the main reason you can't train more units faster. But this hold the game balance.

If you put infinite resources here, you never stop to fight, this game have walls and very powerful defenses, it's hard defeat a AI when have enough resources to survive long gameplay. Try to fight more resourceful maps against Aegis in Hard or more.

And tech didn't work similar, RON provably is the most unique RTS that I was played before.

The most relevant for me was the special units, general, spies, government center. And Campaing map.

And the units can be set to work very automatic, you can set in that game a AI to make desitions.

And have best diplomatic AI gameplay. And best game modes. Was a masterpiece.

[Herrhals]

Ok now you answer, RON mechanic, huh? But you now units in RON the cost of each units for example swordman increase for each units pursached, example 12 to 14 charged to next. This the main reason you can't train more units faster. But this hold the game balance.

If you put infinite resources here, you never stop to fight, this game have walls and very powerful defenses, it's hard defeat a AI when have enough resources to survive long gameplay. Try to fight more resourceful maps against Aegis in Hard or more.

RoN was a masterpiece! I think this game as well has potential to be a masterpiece as well.

With infinite resources, I disagree, there would be a lot more fighting going on. More of the player's time could be spent fighting rather than shuttling citizens around to different trees. Instead of increasing unit costs, just decrease gather rates to keep balance with the use of walls and towers. I have noticed that there is a 300 population cap. If you had 200 cap, then each citizen has a much higher opportunity cost by decreasing room for more military unit.

I just like to focus on military, rather than always worry about where my citizens are wandering off to.

[burzum2]

Okay I am also an RTS vetran.

First of all... RTS is niether total war nor unlimited gungho RoN style ... 0AD is exactly like AOE and an RTS... A TRUE RTS is supposed to be, economy and military managment.

Where's strategy involved in a game with unlimited resources???

It becomes boring.

RoN and Empire Earth II are poor examples of an RTS. Unrelistic, lack of features and totally lost all perspectic and notion of what an RTS is.

What I will agree on is the introduction of caravans. But from market to market. NOT like aoe 3 that's stupip.

I end this comment by thanking the 0 AD team for coding the spirit of beloved AOE in this game andfor staying true RTS fans

[Sighvatr]

0 A.D. is already too far developed to play like Age of Empires.