Match recordings request

[Relish]

Developing my AI bot I've come up with the problem that I'm still bad at playing this game and I don't know if any of the tactics I use are any good.

I've looked at how the other bots play but I would like to see some strategy from a good player.

There is a thread about 0ad videos sticked but the matches are using an outdated version or are just too short to have an idea about how to play.

If anyone, who reputes himself to be a good player, could record a video of a match, where the actions he takes are clear and the camera is not too zoomed in, it would help me a lot.

I know that different civilizations have different playstyles and I will make my bot act differently based on the civ it is assigned to in the future, but a match with any civ you want would be good to me to at least get the basics.

Thanks!

[Afronaut]

So just record a match vs qbot and link you too the recorded video on youtube?

[feneur]

A pretty recent game:

(if I recall correctly it's recorded by Michael aka Mythos_Ruler, who probably is the best 0 A.D. player at the moment, mostly because he knows the game like no one else ). It's not a 100% standard game as there are some additional buildings at the start of the game, but overall it should be the same, also it's sped up a bit to work as a promotional video, but it's at least better than nothing while you wait for others to record their games

[Pureon]

An Alpha 9 singleplayer game against two AI bots:

[Relish]

So just record a match vs qbot and link you too the recorded video on youtube?

exactly!

A pretty recent game: (if I recall correctly it's recorded by Michael aka Mythos_Ruler, who probably is the best 0 A.D. player at the moment, mostly because he knows the game like no one else ). It's not a 100% standard game as there are some additional buildings at the start of the game, but overall it should be the same, also it's sped up a bit to work as a promotional video, but it's at least better than nothing while you wait for others to record their games

An Alpha 9 singleplayer game against two AI bots:

Thanks Feneur and Pureon, these are precisely the kind of videos I am looking for.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Here is a 1X speed video:

[quantumstate]

hmm a table of Unit Attributes get more info about each Unit in 0 AD

That is an AoE 1 rise of rome unit table. It won't be too much help for 0 A.D. http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Unit_Summary_Table is more useful but is a bit out of date and we have unit attack bonuses now which aren't shown in that table.

Relish, I think that looking for AoE2 strategy articles would be helpful, 0 A.D. is pretty similar in style, citizen soldiers are the biggest strategic change in my view, plus the lack of implemented technologies (though this will change).

[feneur]

Just a hint: It will be easier to know what you are saying if you don't put your own text into the part that's quoted from another post

And as Jonathan's reply hinted at: as the game is still being developed (and the unit stats are likely to change even more frequently once we get into beta and do some more serious testing) it's probably not too likely that any such table created right now will be accurate for very long. If it's automatically updated from the games resources it would work, but there might still be e.g. new stat types added as new features are added, so to have any kind of certain list you will have to wait until the game reaches 1.0.

[feneur]

sorry i can't delete it. but the table don't have Roman units info.

That's not what I said I said to put your reply outside the comment, and that's what you did here so that's fine If you don't want to include the quote at all in the first place you can click the "Add reply" button at the bottom of the topic page instead of the "reply" button directly underneath an individual post

[Mythos_Ruler]

We should probably make a script that regularly (Once a week?) compiles and parses the relevant info from the entity templates and outputs it to a page with a nice chart layout.

[fabio]

We should probably make a script that regularly (Once a week?) compiles and parses the relevant info from the entity templates and outputs it to a page with a nice chart layout.

There is already that script at the end of the page http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Unit_Summary_Table

[feneur]

but where are the Romans, and im interesting in see a Units relationship Diagram .

The script hasn't been run since the Romans were included, and before the changes in Alpha 9 there really wasn't much of unit relationships (indirectly of course it was, but not any direct "this units is set to be good at fighting that unit").

[quantumstate]

but the system are like rock, paper and scissors?

Archers beats infantry spear and spear Cavalry etc...

Yes, read the unit template xml files (public/simulation/template/...) for more details .

[Mythos_Ruler]

Each unit type has a primary counter and a secondary counter (and some have further tertiary counters). What units they are good against can be seen in their tooltips.

I'll give a good rundown here for everybody:

Infantry Spearman

• 2x vs. All Cavalry

Infantry Swordsman

• 2x vs. Infantry Spearman
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Skirmisher
• 1.5x vs. Elephant

Infantry Archer

• 2x vs. Infantry Swordsman
• 1.5x vs. Cavalry Spearman

Infantry Skirmisher

• 1.5x vs. Infantry Spearman
• 1.5 x vs. Cavalry Archer
• 1.5x vs. Elephant
• 1.5x vs. Chariot

Infantry Slinger

• 2x vs. Infantry

Cavalry Spearman

• 2x vs. Infantry Swordsman
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Skirmisher
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Elephant
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Camel
• 2x vs. Siege

Cavalry Swordsman

• 2x vs. Support Unit (Traders, Healers, Female Citizens)
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Archer
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Elephant
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Camel
• 2x vs. Siege

Cavalry Skirmisher

• 2x vs. Infantry Archer
• 1.5x vs. Cavalry Swordsman

Cavalry Archer

• 2x vs. Infantry Spearman
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Swordsman

Champions and Heroes of the same above types generally have the same bonuses, but with better base stats (attack, armour).
Siege Rock (Rock Throwers)

• 2x vs. All Structures

Siege Bolt (Bolt shooters)

• 2x vs. Organic units (anything with a mouth and two eyes)

Siege Ram

• 2x vs. All Structures
• 3x vs. Wall Gate

Siege Tower

• No bonuses

Most of the above information can be seen in tooltips in the game.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

By the way, which of the civilizations would you say is the toughest to play against?

[FeXoR]

Each unit type has a primary counter and a secondary counter (and some have further tertiary counters). What units they are good against can be seen in their tooltips.

I'll give a good rundown here for everybody:

Infantry Spearman

• 2x vs. All Cavalry

Infantry Swordsman

• 2x vs. Infantry Spearman
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Skirmisher
• 1.5x vs. Elephant

Infantry Archer

• 2x vs. Infantry Swordsman
• 1.5x vs. Cavalry Spearman

Infantry Skirmisher

• 1.5x vs. Infantry Spearman
• 1.5 x vs. Cavalry Archer
• 1.5x vs. Elephant
• 1.5x vs. Chariot

Infantry Slinger

• 2x vs. Infantry

Cavalry Spearman

• 2x vs. Infantry Swordsman
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Skirmisher
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Elephant
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Camel
• 2x vs. Siege

Cavalry Swordsman

• 2x vs. Support Unit (Traders, Healers, Female Citizens)
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Archer
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Elephant
• 0.5x (attack reduced by 50%) vs. Camel
• 2x vs. Siege

Cavalry Skirmisher

• 2x vs. Infantry Archer
• 1.5x vs. Cavalry Swordsman

Cavalry Archer

• 2x vs. Infantry Spearman
• 1.5x vs. Infantry Swordsman

Champions and Heroes of the same above types generally have the same bonuses, but with better base stats (attack, armour).
Siege Rock (Rock Throwers)

• 2x vs. All Structures

Siege Bolt (Bolt shooters)

• 2x vs. Organic units (anything with a mouth and two eyes)

Siege Ram

• 2x vs. All Structures
• 3x vs. Wall Gate

Siege Tower

• No bonuses

Most of the above information can be seen in tooltips in the game.

Hm... cavalry skirmisher does not only have a very nice resource cost ratio of 2 food, 1 wood 0 metal, they also got no units with dammage bonus against them, are fast and ranged. Only disadvantage: Cannot damage siege weapons well.

Even worse: Iberians ranged mounted units deal crush damage so they rape sige units as well! And Iberians are not rushable because of there walls so it's quite likely for them to get a fortress to produce these...

[hhyloc]

Hm... cavalry skirmisher does not only have a very nice resource cost ratio of 2 food, 1 wood 0 metal, they also got no units with dammage bonus against them, are fast and ranged. Only disadvantage: Cannot damage siege weapons well.

Even worse: Iberians ranged mounted units deal crush damage so they rape sige units as well! And Iberians are not rushable because of there walls so it's quite likely for them to get a fortress to produce these...

Maybe for skirmishers and archers (both infantry and cavalry), we should give them a penalty (reduced damage) against siege units and reduce Crush damage of ranged cavalry since it's not a good practice for ranged cavalry to ram their opponents?

[FeXoR]

Maybe for skirmishers and archers (both infantry and cavalry), we should give them a penalty (reduced damage) against siege units and reduce Crush damage of ranged cavalry since it's not a good practice for ranged cavalry to ram their opponents?

If they deal piercing damage they already deal very little damage to siege engines because of high piercing armor of siege engines. Ranged units have less armor and health compared to melee units but I don't know if that makes up for the range (didn't check the attack speed yet). So it might be OK in the end.

It's mostly the Iberian ranged mounted elite unit with crush damage that seams a bit strange to me. It's more like a siege weapon but still effective to units due to their low crush armor. I think units in general should have higher crush armor and perhaps the Iberian elite mounted ranged should have a piercing attack and attack bonus against buildings. Tweaking the piercing armor of buildings should be possible so that the 'fire arrows' deal enough damage but normal piercing units don't. Still the higher crush armor for non-siege units would be good because until now 'catapults' can take about 5 times the numbers of melee citizen soldiers, which seams quite unrealistic to me and means they are more cost efficient than normal units and have range and can attack everything. 

Edited May 7, 2012 by FeXoR

[Mythos_Ruler]

It's mostly the Iberian ranged mounted elite unit with crush damage that seams a bit strange to me. It's more like a siege weapon but still effective to units due to their low crush armor.

Exactly how I designed it. No anomaly there.

[Pureon]

why is that?

Because that's the way it's meant to be. It's a bonus.

[Mythos_Ruler]

my defensewill be destroy

LOL, well, I just did that because the Iberian ram is rather weak. Plus they throw flaming javelins, so it makes sense from a visual standpoint too. None of this is by any means "final."