Unit And Building Names

[Argantonius]

About the Caballero Turdetano thing: It was me who made these units for personal use, and they were orignially not be intended to be used in the official version. They got included in the latest Alpha by courtesy of the devs, and the name (of whom I know was not accurate, but didn't bother to research, since I wasn't aware that anyone else would see this) got carried with the unit template. But they were inspired by an image of Cantabrian Cavalry (I think from a TW mod), which is why I gave them that generic name. I am glad this error is corrected.

Thanks for the reply. I would refrain in general from using "geographic" names for the Iberians though. After all the Romans, Carthaginians, Persians etc had access to vast empires and could permit themselves the luxury of hiring X units from Y ethnic group/region in particular. The Iberians (and I suppose the Celts) could count at best on tribal alliances/confederations so they would have to train everything "at home", so to speak.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I'm a native Spanish speaker and I also find the use of faux-Spanish names for the Iberians bothersome. So let's see how it could look in faux-Basque (even though the discussion on wether Iberian and Basque are related languages will probably never end). I'm no Basque speaker so I used the online dictionary of the Basque Government as a guide (and I ware you, the placement of adjectives is confusing as hell and seems to be as much in front of nouns as after them, so there are probably grammatical mistakes). Also, when confronted with multiple options I took the ones that looked less likely to be Romance loanwords/derivations)

//UNITS//

INFANTRY

Caetrati -> Falkatari (Falcata Bearer) - I admit I made this up. But I think the weapon is more distinctive than the shield.

Scutari -> Ezkutari (Shield Bearer)

Caetrati Lusitano -> Azkonari (Javelinist) - It's confusing to have both a swordsman and a ranged unit named Caetrati right now, by the way

Karsken -> Habailari (Slinger) - Uh, where does the name "Karsken" come from?

CAVALRY

Caballero Turdetano -> Azkonari Zaldiko (Mounted Javelinist) - This one needs a name change ASAP. The Spanish says "Turdetanian (i.e. Andalusian) Knight" and the English Cantabrian Cavalry!

Epones -> Lantzari (Lancer), Zalditeria (Cavalry), Zaldun (Knight)

SUPPORT UNITS

Ciudadana -> Emakume (Woman)

Sacerdotisa de Ataekina -> Emakume Apaiz (lit. "Woman Priest"), Ataekina Apaiza (Priest of Ataekina). Also checked Petrikilo (Medicine Woman) and Sorgin (Witch)

Comerciante -> Dendari (Trader)

NAVY

Unnamed Fishing Boat -> Arrantza-ontzi (Fishing Boat)

Barco -> Merkantzia-ontzia (Merchant Ship) - Wonder if "Dendari Ontzi" could be possible. Also Itsasontzi (lit. "Sea Ship") is used for bigger boats.

SIEGE

Ariete -> Ariete (Battering Ram, no other word available)

CHAMPION UNITS

Devotio -> Jaierazko (Devoted), Falkatari Jaierazko (Devoted Falcata Bearer)

Epones Devotio -> Zalditeria Jaierazko (Devoted Cavalry), Zalditeria Su-eragilea (Incendiary Cavalry, on account of the flamming javelins)

//BONUSES & SPECIAL TECHNOLOGIES//

Manadas de Caballos -> Zaldi-taldeak (Horse Herds)

El Pedregal -> Harritza (Rocky Country), Harrobi-obia (Quarry Pit) - this wouldn't be unique to the Iberians, but I find the name "Rocky Country" strange for a technology

Mercenario -> Mertzenarioak (Mercenaries) - couldn't think of another word

Falarica del Fuego -> Azkon Su-eragilea (Incendiary Javelin)

Maestros Herreros -> Errementari Maisuak (Master Smiths), Iberiako Altzairu (Iberian Steel), Altzairu Berezi (Alloy Steel)

Tactica Guerrilla -> G(u)errilla is the only option. Well, even though Spanish and modern the term can be considered universal nowadays, no? (BTW, the proper Spanish grammar of the original would be Táctica Guerrillera or Guerra de Guerrillas, or just Guerrilla)

//STRUCTURES//

Oppidum -> Hiri (City)

Casa -> Etxe (House)

Hacienda -> Baserri (Farm, Farmstead)

Huerta -> Baratze (Orchard)

Corral -> Eskorta (Corral)

Centro de Recursos -> Biltegi (Warehouse)

Torre Iberica -> Dorre Biribil (Round Tower), Zaitze-dorrea (Watch Tower)

Puerto -> Kai (Dock)

Templo -> Jainkotegi (Temple, Sanctuary - lit. "God(s) Place")

Cuartel -> Kaserna (Barracks)

Mercado -> Azoka (Market)

Muro Ancho -> Horma (Wall), Horma Zabala (Wide Wall), Harresi (Stonewall, as in castles and such)

Puerta Mortal -> Ate (Gate), Ate Hilgarria (Deadly Gate), Ate Mingarria (Killing Gate), Ate Bikoitza (Double Gate)

Castro -> Gotorleku (Fortress)

Monumento Venerado -> Oroigarri (Monument), Oroigarri Jauresle (Worshipped Monument), Hilobi-oroigarri (Funerary Monument), Errege-hilobi (Royal Tomb), Asaben Hilobia (Ancestors Tomb), Asaben Oroigarria (Ancestors Monument)

EDIT: Forgot this:

Torre -> Harresi Dorrea (Wall Tower), Dorre Karratua (Square Tower)

I wouldn't mind use "faux-Basque," but I'll leave it up to Joshua, aka 'Shogun', our chief historian dude, to decide on that.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Need some input on some Roman building names. Someone mentioned that some of the building names should be looked at.

Outpost

Currently no name

Suggestion: Speculum or Vigilarium

Barracks

Current Name: Castra

Suggestions: Armamentarium or Striga

Fortress

Current Name: Fortis (an adjective meaning "Strong")

Suggestion: Castellum

Entrenched Army Camp

Current Name: Castra Vallum

Suggection: Castra (itself literally means Army Camp in Latin)

Thoughts?

[ribez]

Need some input on some Roman building names. Someone mentioned that some of the building names should be looked at.

Outpost

Currently no name

Suggestion: Speculum or Vigilarium

Barracks

Current Name: Castra

Suggestions: Armamentarium or Striga

Fortress

Current Name: Fortis (an adjective meaning "Strong")

Suggestion: Castellum

Entrenched Army Camp

Current Name: Castra Vallum

Suggection: Castra (itself literally means Army Camp in Latin)

Thoughts?

Outpost

Turris or Statio (plural Stationes)

http://it.wikipedia....io_%28guerra%29

another roman structure was Burgus (plural Burgi), bigger than a Statio, but smaller than a fortress

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgus

(but the article says that it is a late imperial structure, used along the limes)

Castella were forts of auxiliary units, while legions were in castra (http://it.wikipedia...._(storia_romana) ), but i think we can use your suggestions

maybe we can distinguish between castra and castra hiberna; the least were a semi-permanent Army Camp, used during a war in occupied territory.

More difficult is to find a name for barracks, since castra were also barracks. Maybe we can use the name of a building that was in castra, fabrica (plural fabricae), tha weapons factory

Edited January 25, 2012 by ribez

[Mythos_Ruler]

Here is where I'm getting most of my info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castra

"Striga" were the buildings that housed soldiers within the Castra. "Armamentarium" seems to be where the weapons and siege equipment were stored. "Speculum" or "Vigilarium" are mentioned in the watchtower caption. "Burgus" is also mentioned.

[ribez]

why not call barracks as praesidium (plural praesidia)?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16755660/Praesidium-social-military-and-logistical-aspects-of-the-Roman-armys-provincial-distribution-during-the-early-principate

[Pedro Falcão]

why not call barracks as praesidium (plural praesidia)?

http://www.scribd.co...arly-principate

"praesidium/presidium" are the latin words for a defensive building, but i can't take away the thought that in portuguese it is more to Jail than to Barracks...

The english word "barracks" itself born from the spanish "barraca" that means "temporary shelter", but more commonly used as "tent".

[Spartan347]

Hello and congratulations for the quick respone of the developers .

After i played the Hellenes (Hellines) i noticed that some buildings and units are not named correctly. For example:

1) Pule is wrong it should be Pili or Thira.

2) Gyne is correct.

3)Hoplites Hellenikos it should be Hellinas Oplitis.

4)Emporion(Market) should be an a adjuscent to Agora(HQ).

5)Ekdromos Athenaikos it should be Athenaikos Ekdromos.

6)Spartiate it should be Spartiatis.

7)Oikos is correct.

8)Pezetairos is correct although is not a foot companion, Pezetairos is another name that was given by the other greeks for Macedonian Phalanx because of its unique formation the Pezetairoi used.

9)Hetairos is correct.

10) Teikhos is correct.

11) Pyrgos is correct.

12) The wall tower you have it should be Pyrgion Teikhous.

13) Strateigeion (barracks) it should be Stratopedon.

14) Teikhisma(fortress) ancient greeks didnt have castles or fortess till the Byzantine era and you can use on this building the name from barracks(Strateigeion).

15) Gymnasion is correct.

16) Sitobolion is correct.

17) Apothike should change to Apothiki.

18) Agros is correct.

19) Prytaneion is correct although it can be an adjuscent building to Agora(HQ)

20)Limin is correct or if you used Limenas is also correct.

21)Theatron should be changed to Amphitheatron.

22) Hippeus it should be Ippeus and a should have a shield in his left arm and move a bit faster when alone or with other units of the same kind.

23) Peltastis Thrax it should be Thrakas Peltastis.

24) Toxotes Kretikos it should be Kretis Toxotis.

25) Sphendonetes Rhodikos it should be Rhodian Sphendonetes.

26) Prodromos is correct all light cavalry in greece called that after Alexander the Great these units and where a mix of a scout and light skirmishers and assisted the heavy cavalry in their charge.

27) Ploion Halieutikon should be Naus alieutikon.

28) Ploion Phortegikon should be Naus Fortigon.

29) Pentekoteros is correct Pentekoteros whas a light attack ship for charging into enemy ships for boarding action.

30) Triires should be Triiris.

31) Epaulos should be Staulos.

And i notice some missing motions from the Gyne when the kill an animal they just stand there and look it to death

i hope i helped a bit

[Pedro Falcão]

Hey, spartan, could you please list your sources or something to base your corrections on and thus making it more credible? Not that i'm doubting your knowledge at all (i'm just a community fan, and don't know nothing at all about these greek names), but i'm sure the team has spent quite some time reasearching to come to these names and change them based on what some "newcomer" (not meaning to offend at all) says doesn't seem the way a serious game development should go for. Are you greek or something like that?

[Mythos_Ruler]

In fact, didn't we have a back n' forth in this very thread between some Greek speakers on this very subject? Whom are we to trust on this?

[Spartan347]

Hey, spartan, could you please list your sources or something to base your corrections on and thus making it more credible? Not that i'm doubting your knowledge at all (i'm just a community fan, and don't know nothing at all about these greek names), but i'm sure the team has spent quite some time reasearching to come to these names and change them based on what some "newcomer" (not meaning to offend at all) says doesn't seem the way a serious game development should go for. Are you greek or something like that?

Well since you ask my knowledge comes for been a Greek and study Ancient Greek history hard and i have many books about ancient greek strategies and warfare and ancient greek sound a bit off when writen with english characters and although my ancient greek are a little rusty i had a friend of mine to check these before i post them just in case

[MishFTW]

Minor suggestion. For the Roman walls, I think murus would be better suited. Moenia strictly refers to city walls whereas murus can be any wall outside a building.

Sources: Latin book

[Mythos_Ruler]

Minor suggestion. For the Roman walls, I think murus would be better suited. Moenia strictly refers to city walls whereas murus can be any wall outside a building.

Sources: Latin book

Right, but the moenia are city walls. The siege walls, which aren't city walls, are called murus. It works.

[historic_bruno]

We need native word(s) for the Celtic gates. A quick search uncovered the terms "duro(n)" (Celtic/Gaulish?) and "dor" (Welsh/Breton?) for door/gate apparently related to the word "hard". From this Wikipedia artcle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux#Etymology

I'm not sure about the terms of the other gates and walls. Maybe we need to revisit them now that a wall system is implemented and people will be using walls more often.

[Zeta1127]

It looks like there is something weird going on with both the Athenian and Spartan support ships, the fishing boat and the trading ship, are named the same, the trading ship with diacritics and the fishing boat without.

Is the Celtic Cavalry Skirmisher/Raiding Cavalry supposed to be named Gaisaredos, from Alpha 10, or Marcos, from the Celtic civ profiles?

Is the Cantabrian Cavalry intentionally missing from the Iberian civ profile?

Several Persian specific names are missing from their civ profile, does that have something to do with borrowed words mentioned recently?

For the Roman Barracks and Fortress on the Romans (Republican) civ profile, the specific names, Castra and Fortis, should be changed to Armamentarium and Castellum, unless I am mistaken?

I assume the Macedonian civ profile is only temporarily using some Mauryan information?

Edited August 25, 2012 by Zeta1127

[Spahbod]

I felt it like a waste to open a new thread for it, but it is better to change the name of Persian spearman to simply "Sparabara". Firstly because they were recruited from both Medians and Persians, because we have two other Median units (cavalry jav and healer), and because there are no "Persian" units in the faction except Anushiya.

[Spahbod]

Bump for mythos to see the above post ^^^

[Lion.Kanzen]

We need native word(s) for the Celtic gates. A quick search uncovered the terms "duro(n)" (Celtic/Gaulish?) and "dor" (Welsh/Breton?) for door/gate apparently related to the word "hard". From this Wikipedia artcle: http://en.wikipedia....ayeux#Etymology

I'm not sure about the terms of the other gates and walls. Maybe we need to revisit them now that a wall system is implemented and people will be using walls more often.

mi Second namee is Duron XD always know are come France, now i know why and what means.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I felt it like a waste to open a new thread for it, but it is better to change the name of Persian spearman to simply "Sparabara". Firstly because they were recruited from both Medians and Persians, because we have two other Median units (cavalry jav and healer), and because there are no "Persian" units in the faction except Anushiya.

Changed their name to "Sparabara" and amended their "History" description:

Median and Persian infantry armed with short spears and 2 meter-tall shields comprised the main infantry regiment of the Persians during this period, especially in the reign of Xerxes. First under the Medes and later the Achaemenid Persians, these soldiers were the bread and butter infantry for hand-to-hand engagement. Within the Satabam, the basic tactical unit of the Achamenid army, the shieldbearers formed the first two ranks, protecting the arhcers and also serving as a way to keep the enemy pinned down until the cavalry could act. While well known for tenacity the shieldbearers were not equipped to last long in an extended melee with heavy infantry, like hoplites.

Also updated Macedonian and Athenian profiles.

[Robbob]

Hello, this is my first post, so I would like to thank you all for the amazing work done for this game.

In any case, I've found some mistakes in the Roman names:

Wrong name ----> Correct name

Triarus ----> Triarius http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarii

Princips ----> Princeps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principes

Pontifex Minoris ----> Pontifex Minor http://latindictiona...adjective:minor (as you can see minoris is the genitive form)

Aedes Iupiter Optimo Maximo ----> Aedes Iovis Optimi Maximi http://en.wikipedia....Optimus_Maximus

Porta Circummunitio ----> Porta Circummunitionis http://latindictiona....com/noun:ratio Ratio is declinated in the same way of circummunitio, so Porta Circummunitionis is correct because it means "Gate of the surrounding fortification" while Porta Circummunitio can be rendered in english as "Gate, surrounding fortification" (in latin there were no commas)

Turris Circummunitio ----> Turris Circummunitionis the same

Eques Consulares ----> Eques Consularis http://en.wiktionary...wiki/consularis

Liburnus ----> Liburna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liburna

Triremis Romanum ----> Triremis Romana as you can see here http://www.dicolatin...REMIS/index.htm the second table (the first one deals with the adjective) shows that the noun Triremis is a female noun (TRIREMIS-IS, f )

so you should use the female adjective Romana (as you did with the Matrona Romana).

Edited September 12, 2013 by Robbob

[Mythos_Ruler]

Hello, this is my first post, so I would like to thank you all for the amazing work done for this game.

In any case, I've found some mistakes in the Roman names:

Wrong name ----> Correct name

Triarus ----> Triarius http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarii

Princips ----> Princeps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principes

Pontifex Minoris ----> Pontifex Minor http://latindictiona...adjective:minor (as you can see minoris is the genitive form)

Aedes Iupiter Optimo Maximo ----> Aedes Iovis Optimi Maximi http://en.wikipedia....Optimus_Maximus

Porta Circummunitio ----> Porta Circummunitionis http://latindictiona....com/noun:ratio Ratio is declinated in the same way of circummunitio, so Porta Circummunitionis is correct because it means "Gate of the surrounding fortification" while Porta Circummunitio can be rendered in english as "Gate, surrounding fortification" (in latin there were no commas)

Turris Circummunitio ----> Turris Circummunitionis the same

Eques Consulares ----> Eques Consularis http://en.wiktionary...wiki/consularis

Liburnus ----> Liburna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liburna

Triremis Romanum ----> Triremis Romana as you can see here http://www.dicolatin...REMIS/index.htm the second table (the first one deals with the adjective) shows that the noun Triremis is a female noun (TRIREMIS-IS, f )

so you should use the female adjective Romana (as you did with the Matrona Romana).

Great first post! I'll see about amending these names in the game.

[Robbob]

Thanks for the appreciation!

I have some doubts concerning the "Castra Vellum". There may be a mistake there, too, because there isn't the word vellum in latin, there is vellus, but it means sheep hide. Maybe you meant "Bellum", war, or "Vallum", a type of wall.

Looking at this

http://en.wikipedia....Types_of_castra

This problem could be solved renaming it "Castra Aestiva", summer camp or marching camp.

You may also rename the barracks to "Castra Hiberna", winter camp which were not really camps as according to what you can read above they were similar to what barracks are in game.

Another doubt is concerning the "Murus Latericius". It means "Brick wall" but I don't see any bricks there. (see: http://en.wikipedia....Opus_latericium)

I've got two ideas about the renaming: you may rename it "Murus circummunitionis" according to what you did with the other parts, or "Vallum" which matches perfectly the description of the Roman siege walls in the game. (see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallum)

Edited September 12, 2013 by Robbob

[Zeta1127]

I posted this in suggestions when it probably would have been better served to post it here.

My suggestion was actually about ship names in general, specifically warship names. The Carthaginians were just one example, because most civilizations, with the exception of the Persians, Athenians, Mauryans (Light and Medium Warship works for them since their ships don't have unique translations akin to Bireme or Trireme), and Iberians (since we don't know what to call their fire ship), currently have their civilian ships are named according to the design document while their warships generally aren't.

Of course, the design document doesn't actually reflect everything I have stated about ships names and other things are also a little bit of a mess. The Hellenic civs in the design document. with the exception of the Athenians and Ptolemies, are a little messy when it comes to how the Fishing Boat and Trade Ship are named and the specific name for the Hellenic Battering Ram is often a little bit of a mess as well. Also, the Penteconter for the various Hellenic civs should probably use that for its generic name instead of Light Warship, oddly enough the Spartans have the generic name as such in the design document.

[Lion.Kanzen]

And Bellum if you read is Bellum and Vellum if you read it is Wellum. V in Latin sounds to W. thst why the wololo in AOE Volo . Wine in English and Vino in Spanish and other Latin languages.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Thanks for the appreciation!

I have some doubts concerning the "Castra Vellum". There may be a mistake there, too, because there isn't the word vellum in latin, there is vellus, but it means sheep hide. Maybe you meant "Bellum", war, or "Vallum", a type of wall.

Looking at this

http://en.wikipedia....Types_of_castra

This problem could be solved renaming it "Castra Aestiva", summer camp or marching camp.

You may also rename the barracks to "Castra Hiberna", winter camp which were not really camps as according to what you can read above they were similar to what barracks are in game.

Another doubt is concerning the "Murus Latericius". It means "Brick wall" but I don't see any bricks there. (see: http://en.wikipedia....Opus_latericium)

I've got two ideas about the renaming: you may rename it "Murus circummunitionis" according to what you did with the other parts, or "Vallum" which matches perfectly the description of the Roman siege walls in the game. (see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallum)

Thanks again for the input. Check out the Republican Roman civ profile here: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Civ%3A_Romans_Republican