Genedered Civilians

[Emacz]

So this is something that has been bothering me since a28 was released.  What was the point of gendered civilians?   I like to think I'm about as PC/liberal as they come but I have several issues with them.

First off historically most human societies were men driven, where women had little to no power or rights.  Aren't we trying to represent 500 BCE to 500 CE or there abouts?

Secondly why would a civilian male who is wearing no armor be slower both in movement speed and in gathering resources?  In fact, even women might be able to gather as fast or at least have more carrying capacity since again in a lot of societies that was one of their prominent roles.

So was the decision to just be PC? to somehow improve the game play? 

[Deicide4u]

17 minutes ago, Emacz said:

So was the decision to just be PC? to somehow improve the game play? 

So that you don't have 50 females and 5 males in the first 5 minutes of the game. Among other things. Read the official announcement of R28. 

Someone else already created a similar thread.

[guerringuerrin]

Hi, @Emacz 
The reason is historical consistency. You can check the release annauncement for more information, there is an specific title explaining this here:

https://play0ad.itch.io/0ad/devlog/1399284/new-release-0-ad-release-28-boiorix

 

22 minutes ago, Emacz said:

First off historically most human societies were men driven, where women had little to no power or rights. 

AFAIK, agriculture was a family and community activity, in which men, women, and children participated, although with a division of tasks. And this change aims to represent that. 
To be more specific, someone with historical expertise could provide a better explanation.That said, the lack of distinct male audio feedback separate from the citizen-soldiers is a regression in the UX that will need to be addressed in the future.

Also, there's a already a mod if you want to go back with this.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by guerringuerrin
typo

[Emacz]

1 minute ago, Deicide4u said:

So that you don't have 50 females and 5 males in the first 5 minutes of the game. Among other things. Read the official announcement of R28. 

Someone else already created a similar thread.

OK but if "women/civilians" are eco units, why are they slower at eco?

can you link me to the other thread?

[Emacz]

3 minutes ago, guerringuerrin said:

Hi, @Emacz 
The reason is historical consistency. You can check the release annauncement for more information:

https://play0ad.itch.io/0ad/devlog/1399284/new-release-0-ad-release-28-boiorix

 

AFAIK, agriculture was a family and community activity, in which men, women, and children participated, although with a division of tasks. And this change aims to represent that. 
To be more specific, someone with historical expertise could provide a better explanation.That said, the lack of distinct male audio feedback separate from the citizen-soldiers is a regression in the UX that will need to be addressed in the future.

Also, there's a already a mod if you want to go back with this.

 

But "you" aren't being consistent in game IMO.  Why is a citizen soldier who is carrying armor and weapons FASTER at gather than a male civilian who's task it is to gather?  That throws me off more than adding gendered civillians.  Like why can some men fight and gather resources faster than other men? 

 

"In an effort to improve historical consistency, we have replaced the visual appearance of civilian units. Previously described as a "female citizen", the basic economic unit is now called the "civilian" and has male and female models."\

While they are more economical to train... they still aren't really eco units in my mind when "cs soldiers" gather 3 out of the 4 resrouces faster.... its why you see very few pros if any using all "civilians" or "women" to gather stone, metal.

Edited 59 minutes ago by Emacz

[guerringuerrin]

2 minutes ago, Emacz said:

But "you" aren't being consistent in game IMO.  Why is a citizen soldier who is carrying armor and weapons FASTER at gather than a male civilian who's task it is to gather?  That throws me off more than adding gendered civillians.  Like why can some men fight and gather resources faster than other men? 

Is obvious! they are so used to carry heavy equipment that become stronger. ( joking xD )

I can't anwer that, i'm sorry 

here's the audio/fullwomen mod. there two options you can chose:

 

 

Edited 58 minutes ago by guerringuerrin

[Emacz]

1 minute ago, guerringuerrin said:

Is obvious! they are so used to carry heavy equipment that become stronger. ( joking xD )

I can't anwer that, i'm sorry 

here's the audio/fullwomen mod. there two options you can chose:

 

 

Im fine with thee idea of gendered civilians, in fact I kinda of like it if its more historically accurate which I agree to some degree it is.  I guess we will just have to change the gathering rates a little in Classical Warfare AEA

[guerringuerrin]

3 minutes ago, Emacz said:

But "you" aren't being consistent in game IMO.  Why is a citizen soldier who is carrying armor and weapons FASTER at gather than a male civilian who's task it is to gather?  That throws me off more than adding gendered civillians.  Like why can some men fight and gather resources faster than other men? 

 

"In an effort to improve historical consistency, we have replaced the visual appearance of civilian units. Previously described as a "female citizen", the basic economic unit is now called the "civilian" and has male and female models."\

While they are more economical to train... they still aren't really eco units in my mind when "cs soldiers" gather 3 out of the 4 resrouces faster.... its why you see very few pros if any using all "civilians" or "women" to gather stone, metal.

As I said in the first place. It's a way to represent the family and community activity in agricultural tasks.
You will find contradictions if you want, this is a game. Men didnt carry big perfect square iron block into fight and magically makes them disappear when engaging into battle.

1 minute ago, Emacz said:

Im fine with thee idea of gendered civilians, in fact I kinda of like it if its more historically accurate which I agree to some degree it is.  I guess we will just have to change the gathering rates a little in Classical Warfare AEA

Yeah. And it will be good to have specific voices in the future for answers and spaw of these units bc right now it creates confusion.

[Emacz]

Just now, guerringuerrin said:

As I said in the first place. It's a way to represent the family and community activity in agricultural tasks.
You will find contradictions if you want, this is a game. Men didnt carry big perfect square iron block into fight and magically makes them disappear when engaging into battle.

hehe true, yes some things can never be truly indicative of what life really was like, and who did what and how, where and when

[Arup]

use pyrogenesis to make an new entire game "AHA" i.e. as historical as possible, that should fix all these disputes

[Emacz]

13 minutes ago, Arup said:

use pyrogenesis to make an new entire game "AHA" i.e. as historical as possible, that should fix all these disputes

Have already done that... Thats what Classical Warfare AEA is, but using the same engine etc as 0ad.  Just supposed to replace a lot of the historical inaccuracies.