Classical Warfare AEA

[Grautvornix]

@Emacz You are right - I only play SP (both vanilla and Wow's Delenda Est).

I have to admit, I never tried your mod so far, but it is on my must-do-next list.

Love to try it out and will be happy to let you know my feedback. As for all modders - thank you for taking this effort to introduce so many useful features/try out adaptations of the game mechanics. This is definitiely advancing the game!

[Thalatta]

3 hours ago, Emacz said:

Hahha I like it, although Ironically one of the ideas behind this project was to speed up eco a little to put more of a focus on the "war" and "strategies"

Well, a big part of "war" and "strategies" is logistics, and defending supply lines gives a depth beyond smashing against towers and fortresses. Funnily enough yesterday I was thinking about dropsites having a resource count and maximum capacity. You would indeed need to think how to automatise stuff to reduce micro as much as possible.

For more economic buildings, just go more realistic: a mine could be built on some mineral resources (like in Rise of Nations), what you extract is ores, then a smelter or foundry would give you the metals, which can be sent to the blacksmith, or others. Maybe that's too much, but games like Caesar III work like that. For example, the idea was that wood can be stored in some warehouse, from there it can be sent to construction, or exported, or if you build a woodshop it can make furniture, which can be exported for more money, or sent to the market, which your population acquires, again maybe a bit too much, but that's the idea. Check that game maybe.

Edited Saturday at 23:35 by Thalatta

[Asher]

11 hours ago, Thalatta said:

For more economic buildings, just go more realistic: a mine could be built on some mineral resources (like in Rise of Nations), what you extract is ores, then a smelter or foundry would give you the metals, which can be sent to the blacksmith, or others. Maybe that's too much, but games like Caesar III work like that. For example, the idea was that wood can be stored in some warehouse, from there it can be sent to construction, or exported, or if you build a woodshop it can make furniture, which can be exported for more money, or sent to the market, which your population acquires, again maybe a bit too much, but that's the idea. Check that game maybe.

That may be a little too complicated, maybe the raw metal that you have to refine, that might work, you could have your transporters go to a forge, it goes from raw to cooked metal, then it goes to your civic center. But that might make it hard though, even wagon trains or transporters would be hard to manage. It might be better to add in 1 smaller change, then add in 2 changes, instead of doing them at the same time, then you can get used to the one, then lean how to do the other one

Edited Sunday at 11:16 by Asher

[Emacz]

Again I love all these ideas, but yeah some of the "bigger" ones my be a little too difficult to implement right now.  And we still have a lot of little stuff we can do to touch it up and hopefully make it more enjoyable for more peopel too experenice!

[Thalatta]

2 hours ago, Asher said:

even wagon trains or transporters would be hard to manage.

I always say, refer to Earth 2150 for a great example of automatic supply lines. In it, units need ammunition, and there’s an ammunition building that produces a unit that automatically goes between that building and units that need ammo. The only thing one does is decide how many of these suppliers one wants, and the army should defend the supply lines. This is a great example of adding realism and novel game mechanics without additional micro. In 0 A.D., it would be similar to the Traders, but if possible even more automatic (a smelter could go to get the ores, a blacksmith could go to get the metal, this maybe going along with buildings having to have some base garrison to be functional). I would have these types of automatic units (Traders included) as a different kind of unit that cannot be selected unless some button is pressed (they are an annoyance most of the time).

[Asher]

Another idea is that you have to have a generating structure, let's say barracks, in side of a range of the dropsite, so the barracks can get the resources from the dropsite, to generate units. Then you may have to transport to the dropsite. But, like the other ones, this may be hard to implement. It also would be hard if we don't really have a coder. And like Emacz was saying: 

3 hours ago, Emacz said:

And we still have a lot of little stuff we can do to touch it up and hopefully make it more enjoyable for more peopel too experenice!

Maybe we should focus on what we have, make sure it is working properly, then we can add in new bigger ideas

Edited Sunday at 17:12 by Asher

[Grautvornix]

@Asher Most likely you  are right - realisitically we should aim at the next step with highter priority, but it is often useful to have a strategic goal as well to work towards.

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, Asher said:

Another idea is that you have to have a generating structure, let's say barracks, in side of a range of the dropsite, so the barracks can get the resources from the dropsite, to generate units. Then you may have to transport to the dropsite.

I see it as either you implement it with ranges (a simplification), or you consider the transport (more realism). Using both at the same time seems adding conditions over conditions. Only ranges would cause clustered buildings. Besides the reasons already given, I favor (automatic) transport because it implies the need to lay out buildings in a realistic way (to have paths to go between them).

[Grautvornix]

Indeed this would have quite a few implications on settlement layout:

Distanced dropsites would need longer to deliver their goods to the CC while currently distance is not relevant at all.

Therefore, it might be advantageous to build another CC or camp or fortress or whatever is defined as a potential converter building (converting collected goods to goods inventorized to the player's account). Currently the converter building is the dropsite itself. If we now re-allocate that conversion function to the CC, camp, fortress or whatever, this could have implications.

Question: would such constraint (distance to converter building) also affect Petra AI?

We need to be careful suggesting these things as gameplay might become much more complex.

[Asher]

Maybe we should start basic, like just having to transport the resources to a civc center, then we could go from there. Also, would it be possible to add second monitor support. The second one could be another camera, extend your main camera, or show stats (maybe like when you do quit and view summary) 

[Asher]

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

I see it as either you implement it with ranges (a simplification), or you consider the transport (more realism).

The transportation would probably be better, but maybe just transportation for now, so it is not too hard, or too much of a change

[Thalatta]

1 hour ago, Grautvornix said:

Question: would such constraint (distance to converter building) also affect Petra AI?

This is indeed a good question, and one I’m thoroughly unqualified to answer. I’d suspect Petra would be unable to deal with any of this and would need to also be modified, but this was just some brainstorming, @Asher is right on starting basic.

[Asher]

How many resource could the wagon/transporter unit take. Maybe 100 base, but there are upgrades that can get it up to 300? Also, I think there should be some changes to the AI, because they build some of their structures at the edge of their territory, and they usually don't have them well defended at the start of the game at least

Edited Sunday at 23:30 by Asher

[Grautvornix]

From my point of view 100 seems a good start. This is about bulk transport, possibly adding another dimension to the game. What happens if a storehouse is full. The worker would walk to the next nearest dropsite? 

Question: IN an alarm situation, would we allow garrisoning of transporter units into houses/barracks/stables etc. or only into storehouses/fortresses/camps and CC?

[Asher]

5 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

What happens if a storehouse is full. The worker would walk to the next nearest dropsite? 

 

That makes sense to me

6 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

Question: IN an alarm situation, would we allow garrisoning of transporter units into houses/barracks/stables etc. or only into storehouses/fortresses/camps and CC?

Maybe the nearest structure? That would be nice at least, because they are pretty vital and carry a lot of resources, and I wouldn't want to loose them 

[Asher]

This is with the latest update

[Emacz]

do you know how to go to your logs? then you can copy and paste in a message.  I cant quite see that.  But i have been tweaking a few things.  Let me see what happens when I push through and restart.

[Emacz]

It should be good now

[Asher]

crashlog.txt I tried it again, it crashed, could it have corrupted it somehow?

[Asher]

I tried other maps, and they loaded, I think I played them in an older version of the mod, I also tried creating a map, and it worked, so maybe it was something with that map?  Also, I remember there was an error when saving a map one time (it was after I had won), and it wouldn't save

Edited 30 minutes ago by Asher

[Emacz]

did you update from git? that was an issue a little while ago. But should have been fixed, I don't have the issue anymore.

Also I usually use the "interestinglog.html" file to figure it out.

[Asher]

interestinglog.html

Yes, I did update from git