JagSUSsian Reforms

[Arup]

I have played so much 0ad this update to the point I can be pretty confident I've played the most games in the lobby. I have QUITE the list of balance changes/ general changes I want to suggest! and I'll do it all here. before that, could I get a list of balance changes that are already being done for R28?

[Atrik]

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/wiki/Release28#gameplay

[Arup]

Here are some changes I could think off the top of my head:

1.Hero bonuses should apply to the hero itself as well

2.The Kushite eco pyramids should have 75 metal and stone cost in p1, 10-15% less build time but reduced 10% bonus. in p2 the pyramids should be 100 stone and metal and give 15% bonus and the build time in A27. alongside this, the range of the pyramids should increase from 40 in p1 to 55 in p2 (an option to upgrade the p1 pyramid should be provided same way sentry towers become stone towers)

3.return archers to a26 state for testing right now, and see what changes are needed after that

4.make the Ostracism tech cost 200 metal

5.Reduced time for construction of Gymnasium in p3 compared to p2 (15%)

6.Increase required exp for City Guards by 15%

[Arup]

7. Reduce Alexander's health by 15% on account of literally being the strongest hero in game right now

8. Make Phillip of Macedon's bonus related to phalanx formation/pikemen for historical accuracy

9. Make all elephants 10% more metal than they do rn in A27

 

10. Reduce size of all elephant stables (Currently feel too big for medium map size bases let alone normal) and added reduction size of Kushite, Carthaginian, Ptolemic Elephant Stables (smaller elephants, why same size ele stable?)

Edited 21 hours ago by Arup

[Deicide4u]

22 minutes ago, Arup said:

7. Reduce Alexander's health by 15% on account of literally being the strongest hero in game right now

Why is Alexander being the strongest hero a problem? It's just one unit you're never gonna make again.

22 minutes ago, Arup said:

8. Make Phillip of Macedon's bonus related to phalanx formation/pikemen for historical accuracy

Why are we hating on Greece so much? Also, this will make his bonus useless if he's trained by an AI, as the AI can't use formations right now.

Don't take this the wrong way, the game definitely needs some changes. It's just that the changes you're promoting here are infinitesimal when compared to the actual problems plaguing it for years.

Edited 21 hours ago by Deicide4u
Added a greater picture-like comment

[diagonalo]

Please make Maury Palace back to how it was in A26. I'm not sure if the new one is supposed to be historically more accurate but I liked the version better.

It's just harder to place and only available in P3 so nobody uses maiden guards much. Gymnasium might be similar in size I liked the old ones better.

[Arup]

4 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

Why is Alexander being the strongest hero a problem? It's just one unit you're never gonna make again

because he's a bit too OP. the entire civ shouldn't revolve around one hero.

 

4 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

Why are we hating on Greece so much? Also, this will make his bonus useless if he's trained by an AI, as the AI can't use formations right now.

Balance changes' should not worry about whether AI can use the changes or not, and besides, using your own argument, "it's just one unit you're never gonna make again" what's the harm?

 

4 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

It's just that the changes you're promoting here are infinitesimal when compared to the actual problems plaguing it for years

I'm here suggesting things I see fit for more varied and balanced multiplayer games,since that's what actually decides meta in most games. sure,there are bigger problems plaguing it for years, but why should that stop us from making better balance. no offense but this just sounds stupid to me

[Arup]

2 hours ago, diagonalo said:

Please make Maury Palace back to how it was in A26. I'm not sure if the new one is supposed to be historically more accurate but I liked the version better

I'm not sure why they changed it, maybe @wowgetoffyourcellphone can tell you. I think it's a good addition because it should be atleast that big for a territory root. such a small territory root as in a26 is weird

[Deicide4u]

9 hours ago, Arup said:

the entire civ shouldn't revolve around one hero.

It needs to revolve around something. Macedonians have good unit roster, especially champions.

9 hours ago, Arup said:

Balance changes' should not worry about whether AI can use the changes or not

I'm not sure why you think having gameplay broken for the AI justifies these changes. This game should not revolve around multiplayer and its whims. Those RTS games that do, are quickly called out as failures. Just see the couple of recent RTS games that put the focus on MP first. 

I'll re-iterate my previous point. If you want balanced multiplayer, make a mod and promote that mod as a semi-official "balanced" game.

See how TAG_Venom did it with ProTA for Total Annihilation:

https://prota.tauniverse.com/

Edited 7 hours ago by Deicide4u