Fanatics Are Broken Beyond Repair — The Real Spam Nightmare After Champ Cavs

[king reza the great]

8 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Adding a metal cost would be lame. A small adjustment to armor values or hp or speed or a combination would be all that’s needed if anything at all.

Why adding metal is lame?

Just add low metal like 50

Then the player in p2 has to send men to metal before spamming them. It make them slow. More ever he has to spend metal for fanas which means he cant upgrade them easily. It causes he not able to make mass fanas

[king reza the great]

11 hours ago, Seleucids said:

When there is champion spear cav, the naked fanatics are an effective counter. 

But now the champion spear cav is banned, the power of the naked fanatics begin to show in TGs. Their problem is speed, damage and decent durability combined together. Although less unbeatable than champion cavs, they have no particular weaknesses and are cheap to make. There are no parallel units for any other civs in phase 2, which makes them OP. 

In the past, they were truly fragile and costed metal, so they weren't great as late game units / meatshields. But now, it's too easy to spam them and Gauls just got a hypercharged spearman unit that nobody has. This breaks the inter-civ balance. 

Suggestion: 

1. Fanatics cost metal. 

2. Fanatics get no shield, or at least are not affected by shield upgrades.

The problem in this forum is that we have to argue with three group of people

1 people who never player multiplayer games

2 people who rarely play multiplayer games

3 people who play multiplayer games, but not op games. Only noob games

What we say is based on experience and observations and what they say is based on their dreams

[Servo]

2 hours ago, king reza the great said:

The problem in this forum is that we have to argue with three group of people

1 people who never player multiplayer games

2 people who rarely play multiplayer games

3 people who play multiplayer games, but not op games. Only noob games

What we say is based on experience and observations and what they say is based on their dreams

But players on OP team laugh at you! One host even threatened to ban you on his game if fanatics get nerfed. They think it’s your antidote of your cavalry. 
The champ really looks good with its attributes no need to nerf, I’ll second on just requiring them metal as probably in previous alpha. I only played this game up to A24 and really did not see much of fanatics being used too often. 
Now it’s really OP.

[king reza the great]

31 minutes ago, Servo said:

But players on OP team laugh at you! One host even threatened to ban you on his game if fanatics get nerfed. They think it’s your antidote of your cavalry. 
The champ really looks good with its attributes no need to nerf, I’ll second on just requiring them metal as probably in previous alpha. I only played this game up to A24 and really did not see much of fanatics being used too often. 
Now it’s really OP.

The guy who threatened me is a 1100 player, probablly your lvl too. and nobody laugh at me, as you see some are with me in this post.

[guerringuerrin]

It's a counter cav specialist unit. It should be fast and dangerous for cavs. 
It's too strong against infantry.

If you truly feel that something needs to be done about it, I'd slighty nerf it's damage against infantry and maybe make a slight adjustment on their resistance and will stil be a very strong unit and useful to counter cavs, which is their main purpose.

[TheCJ]

6 hours ago, king reza the great said:

The problem in this forum is that we have to argue with three group of people

1 people who never player multiplayer games

2 people who rarely play multiplayer games

3 people who play multiplayer games, but not op games. Only noob games

What we say is based on experience and observations and what they say is based on their dreams

The problem with you is that we have to argue with someone that doesnt understand that

1 singleplayer is an entirely valid way to play the game if they're having fun

2 people that dont play often still have a brain and can compare unit stats and costs

3 the game should be fun for everyone, not just ValihrAnt and borg

 

6 hours ago, king reza the great said:

Why adding metal is lame?

Just add low metal like 50

Sure, why not make it more expensive than any normal champion, after all its already weaker. Very logical... And then you would have the same problem with athenian marines and spartan hoplites, as after that change they would be cheaper and more powerful than fanatics.

 

4 hours ago, Dakara said:

gauls were famous for iron and forge ,rome learnt from us

Iberians were famous for metalworking aswell, one of the most prominent roman sword designs was inspired by them.

[king reza the great]

1 hour ago, TheCJ said:

The problem with you is that we have to argue with someone that doesnt understand that

1 singleplayer is an entirely valid way to play the game if they're having fun

2 people that dont play often still have a brain and can compare unit stats and costs

3 the game should be fun for everyone, not just ValihrAnt and borg

 

Sure, why not make it more expensive than any normal champion, after all its already weaker. Very logical... And then you would have the same problem with athenian marines and spartan hoplites, as after that change they would be cheaper and more powerful than fanatics.

 

Iberians were famous for metalworking aswell, one of the most prominent roman sword designs was inspired by them.

Well i believe only active op players who play or spec op games, able to balance the units not people who play vs bots and noobs Or people who are not in the op games.

People who have experiences and talk based on observation not people who talk based on their imagination!

Have you ever seen a noob abuse broken units? Of course not. because they have not the knowledge. Its the op players who abuse the broken units and we are here to report and lead the game to a balanced version.

Edited August 20, 2025 by king reza the great

[king reza the great]

2 hours ago, TheCJ said:

change

I cant underestand how we make fanas more expensive. Just decrease wood and food and add metal.

We just want to stop players to abuse fanas.

Edited August 20, 2025 by king reza the great

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Well they are not intended to be as expensive as champcav, plus re-introducing metal cost will make them just like a lot of the other champs, something we want to avoid. Diverse and unique units makes for a more enjoyable game.

With that said, one thing to consider would be to reign in the gaul eco a little bit, perhaps by removing the additional farm technology.

About the unit itself, I think the general speed balance complicates things. On the one hand, they need to be fast to act like a cavalry counter because cav are so fast, and on the other, they currently retain quite a lot of strength vs infantry.

In general, super fast units should not get high damage and high armor, and melee champcav are the prime example of this. By banning champcav, players will understandably go for the next fastest (and strongest) unit.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, king reza the great said:

Well i believe only active op players who play or spec op games, able to balance the units not people who play vs bots and noobs Or people who are not in the op games.

I actually fully agree with you there. 

That's why I love that this game is open-source. If you don't like some unit, you're free to balance it however you wish.

You're also free to convince your friends that your balance is good and you should all play together with your fair rules.

EDIT:

You just have to change this one file.

Edited August 20, 2025 by Deicide4u

[Seleucids]

Let me remind you, fanatics were designed to be a unit specifically for rushing enemy fields in phase 2. They were a funny rush unit to play with but had to be trained from the tavern. At some point, they were placed into temples and players discovered their anti Cav usage. Gaul temples are cheap and much more useful than taverns. These changes made them op.

[TheCJ]

3 hours ago, king reza the great said:

Well i believe only active op players who play or spec op games, able to balance the units not people who play vs bots and noobs Or people who are not in the op games.

Well, I believe you are wrong. For the following reasons:

1. Just because you're better at the game (supposedly), you aren't necessarily smarter or better at balancing. Even a complete noob that uses their brain can understand why champion cavalry are too strong at the moment, no matter if they ever built some themselves.

2. If you're actively playing the game and investing a lot of time into it (which you need to reach a highly skilled level of gameplay), chances are that your opinion on a good balance is biased. Because you want your favourite strategy to be viable (or perhaps even the best), while you want strategies that you struggle against to be reduced in effectiveness, even if they may not actually need any balancing. 

3. Concerning yourself only with the opinions of pro players inadvertently leads to a worse experience for less skilled players. This can be seen in almost all teamgames that have an E-sport scene; some tactics only become very good with communication and teamplay, but nerfing the tactic itself will make it unusable in casual play.

 

3 hours ago, king reza the great said:

I cant underestand how we make fanas more expensive. Just decrease wood and food and add metal.

Well, either you make fanatics more expensive to reduce their cost-effectiveness or you aren't actually making them more expensive, in which case such a change would be useless. A good player can balance his eco (as you should know if you're playing in "op games"), so it doesnt actually matter to him whether its a metal or food cost.

The only exception being that metal has a ceiling of how many gatherers it can have and a ceiling of how much metal you can mine. Both of which are pretty much irrelevant in early p2.

Edited August 20, 2025 by TheCJ

[Seleucids]

Besides cost effectiveness, you must consider the activation cost. Champs are much more cost effective than citizens but they have such a large initial investment that blocks players out from making them. Fanatics are the champs with a low activation cost, because food and wood are gathered en mass and the 100 each is nothing for a P2 player. You can put 70 units at one forest and station 55 womens to farm, but the metal mines and stone mines allow up to 24 units only

 

@TheCJ raised a good point about viability. Fanatics are only available for Gauls and other civs Dont have effective counters

[king reza the great]

1 hour ago, TheCJ said:

Well, I believe you are wrong. For the following reasons:

1. Just because you're better at the game (supposedly), you aren't necessarily smarter or better at balancing. Even a complete noob that uses their brain can understand why champion cavalry are too strong at the moment, no matter if they ever built some themselves.

2. If you're actively playing the game and investing a lot of time into it (which you need to reach a highly skilled level of gameplay), chances are that your opinion on a good balance is biased. Because you want your favourite strategy to be viable (or perhaps even the best), while you want strategies that you struggle against to be reduced in effectiveness, even if they may not actually need any balancing. 

3. Concerning yourself only with the opinions of pro players inadvertently leads to a worse experience for less skilled players. This can be seen in almost all teamgames that have an E-sport scene; some tactics only become very good with communication and teamplay, but nerfing the tactic itself will make it unusable in casual play.

 

Well, either you make fanatics more expensive to reduce their cost-effectiveness or you aren't actually making them more expensive, in which case such a change would be useless. A good player can balance his eco (as you should know if you're playing in "op games"), so it doesnt actually matter to him whether its a metal or food cost.

The only exception being that metal has a ceiling of how many gatherers it can have and a ceiling of how much metal you can mine. Both of which are pretty much irrelevant in early p2.

I never said i want to balance the game. Im here to report the issues. And i say my suggestions, may sb find them useful.

[king reza the great]

1 hour ago, TheCJ said:

would

Yes an op player can balance his eco to abuse fanas. Ask your self now why they didnt do that in last alphas when they needed metal for fanas?

Anyway i think metal is good solution because an op player although still can make fanas but he cant make mass fanas because he needs lot of metal.

Here Aslan sometimes sucide his fanas easily! But his sucide still works. U know why? Because wasting wood and food is nothing compared to wasting metal when u can slow down your opponent.

Edited August 20, 2025 by king reza the great

[guerringuerrin]

Posting some videos

 

Marine vs Fanatic

Temple:
300 wood
160s buildtime
Gymnasium:
150 Stone 100 metal.
200s buildtime
Marine wins by tiny margin.
Fanatic can choose the fight bc movement speed.

 

 

Spartan Spartiates vs Fanatic
Syssytion:
150 stone 150 Metal
200s buildtime
Spartiates wins with 1/4 HP left

Edited August 20, 2025 by guerringuerrin

[guerringuerrin]

Is this thread went restricted? Aprove my post plss

[TheCJ]

4 hours ago, Seleucids said:

You can put 70 units at one forest and station 55 womens to farm, but the metal mines and stone mines allow up to 24 units only

So if you replace the 100 food cost with 50 food and 50 metal, instead of 55 farmers, youd need 27.5 farmers and 27.5 metal miners. You can always have 24 metal miners, but you might want more for upgrades... which would mean you can not do the tactic exactly as before, so long as you dont have any extra metal. But with just one extra metal deposit, you can easily put the 28 citizen soldiers on metal that you need to have the exact same output of fanatics.

 

3 hours ago, king reza the great said:

Ask your self now why they didnt do that in last alphas when they needed metal for fanas?

Ask yourself why the market abuse possibility went unnoticed for 3 (?) years. Sometimes it just takes time to come up with a tactic.
But in this case, there are other factors aswell; the relative strength of melee compared to ranged units, the superiority of cavalry to infantry, etc. which werent the case 3 years ago.

[Seleucids]

10 hours ago, TheCJ said:

Ask yourself why the market abuse possibility went unnoticed for 3 (?) years. Sometimes it just takes time to come up with a tactic.

Actually weirdJokes discovered the market bug 4 years ago but he didn't abuse it and the few people who heard about it just ignored it. This was because of the unit cost and the lower floats at the time. Karim and Cube demo it in a few TGs in front of many people and it became viral.  

[TheCJ]

1 hour ago, Seleucids said:

Actually weirdJokes discovered the market bug 4 years ago but he didn't abuse it and the few people who heard about it just ignored it.

ah so it were at least 4 years. Maybe someone also used fanatics 4 years ago, but didnt "abuse" them and now the tactic is reappearing. Which is why rezas argument is not an argument at all.

[Darkcity]

NGL, I played my first 1v7 againt very hard ai in this alpha with gauls and it felt very easy with fanatics spam. It usually takes atlest 3 tries before i win any 1v7 very hard ai but with fanatcis it happend without any effort lol. 

We should balance them out a little. 

 

[Guest]

@Darkcity

The USA would go crazy seeing all that oil on the map. Get ready to receive some unwanted "freedom". 

[Darkcity]

3 minutes ago, Deicide4u said:

The USA would go crazy seeing all that oil on the map. Get ready to receive some unwanted "freedom". 

Didn't notice xd, water does look like oil. 

[Guest]

Keep in mind that Fanatics were originally meme units trainable from a special building (the Tavern) available only in some scenarios.

They had like 1 Hack and 1 Pierce armor and were glass cannons. More glass, than cannons.

[Classic-Burger]

<Class> Meme <\Class>