Champion cavalry improvements

[chrstgtr]

On 24/09/2025 at 11:36 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

 (possibly also nerf the +100 hp tech for them too).

I don't like this tech. It lacks originality and is OP. I would prefer it to be replaced with something entirely different. 

3 minutes ago, Atrik said:

• Your armor and HP changes barely change cav HP equivalent, but lowered it's speed, so they'll be worse at chasing other cavs but as good against infantry. A bit less map control too.

I don't get this either. Basically the nerf is to make them slower and lower their special health tech? That's fine, i guess, relative to other cav. But all melee champ cav remains OP vs inf. 

Edited September 26, 2025 by chrstgtr

[real_tabasco_sauce]

13 minutes ago, Atrik said:

Bactrians Chavs are have the same stats as Cataphract in a27, they are used more often for champ cav because of the Persian pop bonus. So they'll be nerfed more then Catapharct, intentionally?

bactrian cav also get the 'cataphract mixin'. So they are currently receiving the same nerf. Do you think they should be nerfed extra? If so, I'd probably disqualify them from getting the nisean war horse tech, making that tech unique to sele.

15 minutes ago, Atrik said:

Your armor and HP changes barely change cav HP equivalent, but lowered it's speed, so they'll be worse at chasing other cavs but as good against infantry. A bit less map control too.

yeah that's the idea. It creates a more noticeable difference between cataphract units and regular champ cav.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

15 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

It lacks originality and is OP. I would prefer it to be replaced with something entirely different. 

me too, but I don't have an idea to replace it. So since we are talking about nerfs, better to just nerf it for now. (+100 hp is crazy)

[Atrik]

25 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

bactrian cav also get the 'cataphract mixin'. So they are currently receiving the same nerf. Do you think they should be nerfed extra?

I got confused by the template name "cataphract mixin", thinking it was applying only to cataphract. No I don't think they need additional nerf, the speed debuff might already remove too much of there utility and still have them as strong as frontliner. I guess we'll see, if the counter damage increase for spears have been dismissed already.

46 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

Basically the nerf is to make them slower and lower their special health tech? That's fine, i guess, relative to other cav. But all melee champ cav remains OP vs inf. 

Yes but actually 'normal' champ cav only get HP debuff, so net nerf, against all including against inf there (If I'm not mistaken again).

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Yes that’s right @Atrik. Although both those cataphracts also access the tech I nerfed by about 50%.

so through that tech they get another nerf.

i think it will be interesting to see how speed vs hp nerfs play out. But ultimately we just need to get some nerf out there.