Carthaginians in A26

[Yekaterina]

Some people think that Carthage is a weak civ in A26. If you play them with the correct strategy, they are not bad at all. These two replays might be helpful:

carthaginians.zip

Loadouts:

• 90 archers + 40 spearman + 10 cav 
• Jav cav spam + spearman or champion cav
• Elephants + archers
• 40 archers + 40 cav + 50 spearman

It's also a good idea to make a bit of everything with the Carthaginians. They are the most diverse civ so they do have the best potential to play any strategy you want. They are totally flexible and the mercenary units can save you in dire situations. The key to playing Carthaginians is always keep about 9 units on metal, as there are many opportunities to spend metal in late game. 

 

Archer spam with the Carthaginians is quite powerful. Try to get your enemy in front of some building or some obstacle then shower then with arrows. If they approach you, retreat immediately. The Carthaginian spearman has identical shape to a hoplite so you can do the trick of shrinking 50 spearman into one tiny unbeatable singularity, using formations. 

Enemy pikes are countered by your elephants and hero dancing, meanwhile your archers snipe enemy ranged. 

One thing that can be improved is to give Carthaginian archers the additional range tech. They are an archer civ after all so they do deserve this tech like any other archer civ. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

Carthage functions somewhat like the Kushites.

It would be interesting to have more diversity with this faction.

 

It's not bad but the other Africans outclass them.

[Yekaterina]

9 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Africans outclass them.

Ptolemies. They can beat the Kushites in 0AD, because of slinger + pike combinations. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

29 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Ptolemies. They can beat the Kushites in 0AD, because of slinger + pike combinations. 

And the Camels

[Lion.Kanzen]

30 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Ptolemies. They can beat the Kushites in 0AD, because of slinger + pike combinations. 

That's why I said Africans since Kushites and Ptolemies can crush them.

[Yekaterina]

Just now, Lion.Kanzen said:

And the Camels

Camels not so effective against Kush, as the Kush arches do have ranged upgrade and all sorts of other bonuses. Camels don't. So camels will be outranged and lose to the Kush infantry (assuming some melee is involved)

[Lion.Kanzen]

Just now, Yekaterina said:

Camels not so effective against Kush, as the Kush arches do have ranged upgrade and all sorts of other bonuses. Camels don't. So camels will be outranged and lose to the Kush infantry (assuming some melee is involved)

How could we make archer civs unique from each other?

 

How could we make the Kushites the best archer spam?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

By virtue of simply having access to archers, Carthage is an "archer civ" sure, but that doesn't mean their archers have to be particularly good. In fact, I'm not aware of a single recorded historical incident of Carthage using archers to effectiveness. 

Elephants, mercenaries, and skirmish cavalry should be their trifecta.

[Lion.Kanzen]

31 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

By virtue of simply having access to archers, Carthage is an "archer civ" sure, but that doesn't mean their archers have to be particularly good. In fact, I'm not aware of a single recorded historical incident of Carthage using archers to effectiveness. 

Elephants, mercenaries, and skirmish cavalry should be their trifecta.

That's the problem with the Kushites, their archers,They simply do not stand out from the rest of the army.

While Carthage is doable.

[Yekaterina]

11 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

How could we make the Kushites the best archer spam?

Mauryas and Persians have the best archer spam, because of the additional pop space. Archer spam is all about numbers, so the additional 20 units is extremely important. 

If you want Kushites to have the best archer spam, give them additional pop allowance. 

 

11 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

How could we make archer civs unique from each other?

 

Difficult question. We can make them have access to different kinds of melees and other units. I think the archer civs are already quite different from each other. 

 

[Yekaterina]

7 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

That's the problem with the Kushites, their archers,They simply do not stand out from the rest of the army.

While Carthage is doable.

The issue with both of these civs is that they can't play archer spam, even though they are archer civs. You are better off doing cavalry or mercenary, especially in the case of Carthage who only has one type of citizen melee unit. 

Archer civs really need additional numbers or some alternative citizen ranged unit. The biggest difference between archer and skirmisher is that 150 skirmishers is not significantly better than 120 skirmishers in battle, because the short range means many of them spend time pathfinding around each other before reaching the front line. However, 150 archers can just stand still in one crowd and continuously shower the enemies with arrows in all directions without stop. There is little pathfinding around needed. 

[Yekaterina]

The more archers in a crowd the more deadly, because they become simple unapproachable. I saw a player called Kafkas who made 180 archers with the Persians, and nothing else. It took two 1600 players to hold against the crowd. Eventually a third player came and they were able to crush him 3v1. Melee units die before they can reach the crowd, and at that number, you lose very little so it's easy to reinforce with more. 

Only Persians and Mauryas can do this, Kush and Carthage have the low populationn limit so they can't play the strategy. 

I still think Carthaginian archers deserve a range tech, because they do have the perfect setup for archer play. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Yekaterina said:

Difficult question. We can make them have access to different kinds of melees and other units. I think the archer civs are already quite different from each other. 

 

May be some of these archers can have armor stats bonuses, others range bonuses and others rate of fire? Have any difference between them?

[Yekaterina]

5 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

armor stats bonuses, others range bonuses and others rate of fire?

one has to be very careful with playing with these values, as they can easily tip the balance

what we can do is to have the same overall dps, but some civs' archers shoot at higher rate with lower damager per arrow. Other civs have very hurtful arrows but shoot slowly. 

Armour stats are in the forge already. But we can give someone and additional tech. For example, we can claim: "the kush archers look pretty muscular, so they should have 60  health instead of 50". 

Maybe we can make the Carthaginian archers walk super quickly (same speed as javs) so that they can retreat in time. Excuse: Hannibal and the other Carthaginian commanders were very vigilant; they always order their troops to retreat in time. 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

15 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

one has to be very careful with playing with these values, as they can easily tip the balance

That's why I ask.

The archer Civs in Age of Empires do this with their archers, be they Mayan, Vietnamese or English.

 

English higher range of fire.

Mayans more piercing.

And Vietnamese more pierce armor.

[LetswaveaBook]

On 17/05/2023 at 2:31 PM, Yekaterina said:

Maybe we can make the Carthaginian archers walk super quickly (same speed as javs) so that they can retreat in time. Excuse: Hannibal and the other Carthaginian commanders were very vigilant; they always order their troops to retreat in time. 

I oppose the idea of giving an archer bonus for Carthaginians. In the wikipedia page about the military of Carthage, archers aren't mentioned once. Carthage should have other qualities than buffed archers.

Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Carthage

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I oppose the idea of giving an archer bonus for Carthaginians. In the wikipedia page about the military of Carthage, archers aren't mentioned once. Carthage should have other qualities than buffed archers

As I thought.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

If anything defining features should be slingers or more importantly their javelin cavalry.  Those were perhaps one of the most decisive factors in Carthaginian success in the Second Punic War.