Non-random BuildingAI

[real_tabasco_sauce]

10 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

1 and 3 if non-random

so like +25 wood or stone, and reduce garrisoned damage?

based off of this:

24 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

What do u all think should be done with sentry towers? Slight bump in cost? Increase build time? change arrows counts/fire rate?

 

[chrstgtr]

6 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

so like +25 wood or stone, and reduce garrisoned damage?

 

I would prob do 50w and moderate reduction of garrison dmg.

Not stone because that is unfair to p1 slinger civs. 

1 and 3 because:

• Cost because it is used as a way to circumvent unit production chokepoints (number of unit producing buildings and unit production time).
• Dmg because it is hard to stand under it and fight for more than a few seconds. 

Wouldn't do 2 because time hurts eco too much when you build the tower prophylactically. 

Open to other suggestions, the ^^^ isn't a strong opinion.  

[real_tabasco_sauce]

ok, I just figured out how to allow siege towers to benefit from targeting (with queueing and pushing to front of queue).

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4964

All thanks to the glorious @Isam f

Edited March 13 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Ok, so it is pretty clear to me that questions 2,3, and 4 are problematic at the moment. Would you all say these issues are only problematic when the CCs and towers are garrisoned? Or are they problematic regardless of the soldiers inside contributing additional arrows?

I don't think the "Make buildings shoot at random unless targeted" solution will work very well, but I can certainly do it if thats what ppl want.

Edited March 19 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

17 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

don't think the "Make buildings shoot at random unless targeted" solution will work very well, but I can certainly do it if thats what ppl want.

Now you understand the anguish of design by vote. :* 

[ShadowOfHassen]

17 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Ok, so it is pretty clear to me that questions 2,3, and 4 are problematic at the moment. Would you all say these issues are only problematic when the CCs and towers are garrisoned? Or are they problematic regardless of the soldiers inside contributing additional arrows?

I don't think the "Make buildings shoot at random unless targeted" solution will work very well, but I can certainly do it if thats what ppl want.

Do what you think is best, and if people grouch about it, ignore them. I for one, trust you with game balance. :-)

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Yeah, really the fundamental issue with the approach is that problems 2,3, and 4 will still exist, just only when ppl are targeting.

It seems that 2, 3, and 4 are really more about the arrow counts when garrisoned, so I am keen to let the poll go on a little longer.

Ultimately though, it wouldn't be too hard to go between closest and random default behavior. So if ppl eventually want to go back to the current behavior it wouldn't be much wasted time.

Edited March 19 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

k i spent a solid couple of hours trying to make random arrows by default to work, and its definitely not as easy as I thought it would be. Unfortunately it kind of balloons the amount of code needed and the complexity.

I could still do it but it would take me a lot longer than just adjusting the problematic arrow counts, so I could get ready for a new CM release very soon.

[chrstgtr]

4 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

k i spent a solid couple of hours trying to make random arrows by default to work, and its definitely not as easy as I thought it would be. Unfortunately it kind of balloons the amount of code needed and the complexity.

What do you mean? Wouldn't it just be a total revert?

On 19/03/2024 at 4:53 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Yeah, really the fundamental issue with the approach is that problems 2,3, and 4 will still exist, just only when ppl are targeting.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. At least not for early game. It is really hard to target arrows during rushes, especially when you are also trying to hide women/bring men by CC. Meanwhile, players don't like to stay under CCs for long so the defending player has to act really fast. To the extent people can do this, I don't think it's bad to reward them for their micro skills. 

To your point, late game it might be a problem still. But to the extent it is a problem, it would be similar to the impact of sniping, which isn't done a ton nowadays. 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

7 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

18 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

k i spent a solid couple of hours trying to make random arrows by default to work, and its definitely not as easy as I thought it would be. Unfortunately it kind of balloons the amount of code needed and the complexity.

What do you mean? Wouldn't it just be a total revert?

The targeting queue is inside buildingAI and the function that fires arrows handles both default behavior arrows and targeted arrows.

[chrstgtr]

2 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

The targeting queue is inside buildingAI and the function that fires arrows handles both default behavior arrows and targeted arrows.

So it is a problem with doing random arrows and manually targeted arrows at the same time ("Make buildings shoot at random unless targeted")? I didn't realize it was built directly within buildingAI. 

Your choice if you want to try to pursue it. To your point above, the "Make buildings shoot at random unless targeted" might be still be problematic, so it might not be worth you spending time on it instead of just doing a total revert. 

 

[alre]

On 19/03/2024 at 9:47 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Now you understand the anguish of design by vote. :* 

On 19/03/2024 at 10:19 PM, ShadowOfHassen said:

Do what you think is best, and if people grouch about it, ignore them. I for one, trust you with game balance. :-)

it is the community mod.