Akira Kurosawa Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 Hello! Could the developers slightly rethink the system of national borders and make them "incompressible"? The problem is that when an ally reaches a new stage of the city, it captures the territory that was previously under my control with its borders. So, I want to suggest that you consider the border system from Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars and make the borders overlap each other. Then these strange "loops" on the ground will not form and my buildings will no longer create "bubbles", falling under the expansion of the allied border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 Borders have weights, so the stronger the adversary, the more it gains on your territory, which I think makes sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Stan` said: Borders have weights, so the stronger the adversary, the more it gains on your territory, which I think makes sense. I did not mean the ban on the expansion of borders. The boundaries continue to expand as the city develops. I would like that when expanding the boundaries could freely pass one through the other, and not crowd out one another. This means that I could build on someone else's territory within my border and another player could build their buildings on the part of my territory intersected by his building area. You can finally make the borders around the main buildings perfectly round. Edited February 27, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan` Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 Well the point of territory is that you are not able to do that, else it's not your territory ^^ and there is no point in expanding yours. There was some work towards this however here https://code.wildfiregames.com/D840 but the person who worked on it is long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stan` said: Well the point of territory is that you are not able to do that, else it's not your territory ^^ and there is no point in expanding yours. There was some work towards this however here https://code.wildfiregames.com/D840 but the person who worked on it is long gone. Why doesn't it make sense? In StarCraft, taking territory with pylons made sense. At the same time, the Terran could build its own building next to the pylon. In Tiberium Wars, the capture was made in order to have land for construction, because secondary buildings could not be built on uncaptured land. In Tiberium Wars, it was generally possible to build your turrets on an allied territory and without imposing your territory on an allied one. Therefore, I think that for 0 A.D. has the same meaning as for Tiberium Wars - territories for buildings. If someone climbs into your territory, demolish his city center. Do you have Tiberium Wars on PC? You just have to play around and think about the border system there. Spoiler But, most importantly, I could strengthen the allied territory with my towers. And if the developers allowed building on allied land at all, it would be possible to make a denser line of my and allied towers without breaking the distance limit between their own towers. Edited February 27, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakfastBurrito_007 Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 The game plays differently to starcraft and C and C in a variety of ways. One of these is that land can't be shared by allies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrstgtr Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said: One of these is that land can't be shared by allies. I always thought overriding this for a civ bonus would be fun and unique. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 14 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said: The game plays differently to starcraft and C and C in a variety of ways. One of these is that land can't be shared by allies. If it doesn't break the AI too much, I think the developers should make a test mod and give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sternstaub Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 It is more plain as it is now tho... Overlaps can cause problem-prone situations which we do not have to take into account with exclusive borders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 22 hours ago, chrstgtr said: I always thought overriding this for a civ bonus would be fun and unique. Carthaginian Embassies buildable in allied territory? (Possible in Delenda Est already) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Akira Kurosava said: If it doesn't break the AI too much, I think the developers should make a test mod and give it a try. I share your frustration with a lot of the territory bugs. I hate the weird loops and bubbles too. Also, allies taking over your terrain is annoying. This is especially prevalent from AI allies who love to do this for some reason. What I think needs done though is that allied borders should have stronger weight against each other so that they resist each others expansion more. Couple that with some border calculation fixes to get rid of the weird loops and bubbles and I think we got a winner. Edited February 28, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrstgtr Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Carthaginian Embassies buildable in allied territory? (Possible in Delenda Est already) Yeah, there are a bunch of variations in what we could do. We could do just mercs like you suggest. Could do all military. Could do just eco buildings. Could do all buildings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, sternstaub said: It is more plain as it is now tho... Overlaps can cause problem-prone situations which we do not have to take into account with exclusive borders. But in the long term, this can once and for all put an end to the border looping and calculating strange octagonal figures in order to fit into the occupied area. 20 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Couple that with some border calculation fixes to get rid of the weird loops and bubbles and I think we got a winner. And yet, it seems to me that it will be easier to get rid of the calculations altogether and make static circles around the main buildings, which will expand three times, while giving the secondary buildings their small circular area according to the Tiberium Wars model. At the same time, it is possible to maintain a distance restriction between the city centers of the allied nations, while allowing forts and towers to be placed side by side. As for the minimum distance between the player's city center and the city center of his enemy, a distance of one or two "ring" radii seems optimal. It's just that one of the developers still needs to play Tiberium Wars at a low level and evaluate in detail how C&C solves this problem. Spoiler Spoiler Can you imagine what would happen in the C&C if there was such a loop and the capture of your turrets by an enemy border? Spoiler Edited February 28, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) As for layering an allied zone on an enemy one, buildings at the intersection of zones could retain their ownership as long as their under zone exists. At the same time, the troops could still capture them. If two or more opponents claim neutral buildings, the buildings could go to a closer source of territory rooting. Edited February 28, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakfastBurrito_007 Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 The non-circular shapes have a lot to do with capturing buildings. Perfect circles would stop working when buildings get captured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said: The non-circular shapes have a lot to do with capturing buildings. Perfect circles would stop working when buildings get captured. Didn't understand. It's just that buildings such as Theatron or Coton will generate their own circles of medium radius and capture everything that falls within their radius of action. The essence will remain the same, only the form will change to a simpler one. At the same time, the Wonder can simply add its own percentage of bonus expansion to existing circles. I think it couldn't be easier! It seems to me that this is much easier than loading the system with calculations of all this "lace". Spoiler Edited February 28, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreakfastBurrito_007 Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Barracks, houses, and every other building also has its own territory influence, but not a territory root. I don't see how territories can remain circular when civic centers from different players are close together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) On 28/02/2023 at 8:16 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said: Barracks, houses, and every other building also has its own territory influence, but not a territory root. I don't see how territories can remain circular when civic centers from different players are close together. I am writing that the territories overlap and the allies have a common territory at the intersection. In the case of the enemy - the same, but until someone's city center is demolished and the buildings begin to move under the remaining zone. On 28/02/2023 at 8:16 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said: Barracks, houses, and every other building also has its own territory influence, but not a territory root. Exactly the same influence as the Tech center in Tiberium Wars, which adds its own small circle to the current circle from the city center. Spoiler Simple houses or sawmills can have zero impact, just like simple turrets or power plants. Spoiler In the long term, the developers could decide for themselves which building will create a circle of influence, and which one - a percentage increase to the expansion of all existing circles. And what kind of buildings should not "make the weather" at all and just stand in the area of the city center. Spoiler Edited March 14, 2023 by Akira Kurosawa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Kurosawa Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 You do not even want to try this innovation in test mode, which can become revolutionary, but have already refused. Spoiler Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted March 2, 2023 Report Share Posted March 2, 2023 Unless someone is a true believer in a concept, it's difficult to put in the effort to make a mod for it. Not that making mods is difficult, but the motivation isn't there. You're better off taking some time learning how to mod, then make a mod to show off your concept. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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