oshron

on the whole converting units thing, i think if nothing else the basic mechanic should be in-game for reference, but only in an editor-only unit for non-modified versions of the game. of course, said unit would be a high-definition 3D model of the original Priests from AOE complete with the wololo sound if nothing else, it would make a decent jumping-off point for modders and designers to make different units that can convert enemies (say, a crusader knight, for instance*) there could also be a cheat called "wololo" that instantly converts whatever's highlighted to your side *before anyone says anything, yes i know the crusaders weren't around in 0ad's timeframe; it's just an example

i'd argue against that; it's micromanaging (even if you only have to do one thing) and would take away a basic feature of RTS games that anyone who will want to play 0ad is already intimately familiar with. the idea behind the fog of war is that you know that region exists but just have no current knowledge about it, e.g. that the non-current knowledge stems from the oral tradition. "Oh, there are vast forests in this area, and endless herds!" "Huh? Where are all the trees, and the deer? My great-grandpa lied to me!"

i'd say it should be 5 additional towers for each civic center or fortress, with some other buildings also providing one or two more towers (like barracks, for instance), with a total cap at 25 or maybe 30 (actually, maybe a cap of 30 could be reserved as a unique trait of a certain faction whereby only they are allowed to build those 5 extra towers)

in fact, it may be useful to include some objects specifically for use in conjuction with natural disasters in-game, such as piles of rocks that would tumble over following an earthquake and block the main path of a mountain pass, forcing the players to either find another way around or dig their way through

sounds interesting. i'll have to look at yours and compare with mine Godstorm is supposed to be a spirtual successor to AOM, hence the good-neutral-evil setup even though almost all of the gods presented are most certainly not like that. i mean, all of the Greek gods--and i mean almost literally ALL OF THEM--are pricks anyway. the designation of good-neutral-evil is partly for campaigns and scenarios, giving a designated stereotypical good, neutral, and evil subfaction within each civilization. when you get right down to it, though, those definitions are left up to one's own opinion and someone who consistently plays as Hades, for instance, will definitely see him as the good guy in-context with Zeus, Poseidon, and whoever else being the bad guys (and as a note, in the original AOM campaign, the major god of the bad guy was "neutral" Poseidon, not "evil" Hades) one thing i plan to do is pretty much completely revise the Aztec pantheon when it gets to that (i just felt like posting about the Hindu revisions because we've started covering them in my World Religions class and it gave me some ideas). for instance, Quetzalcoatl will get his legitimate treatment as a culture hero rather than as a monster; if he's still a major god, he may have a special thing where he doesn't require sacrifices to get favor for the player (rather than having a bonus that makes sacrificing easier) as well as being the designated "good" major god (iirc, i had him as "evil" before)

natural disasters would be useful for scenarios, especially if a natural disaster had some historical significance in a period (especially if it affected a military campaign), but they shouldn't be part of regular gameplay because they'd be game-breakers even if the players can't choose when to activate them like with God Powers in AOM

this is partly just to bump the thread in the hope of getting more input, but an idea also occurred to me recently pertaining to the Hindus. perhaps the archaic Indian caste system could be simulated with the Hindus by making each basic unit available to them more economically-specialized (e.g., perhaps infantry swordsmen could only farm) but they would be exceptionally good at that one task (aside from fighting). another is that their Major Gods could be redefined as bieng Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva; going on the "good-neutral-evil" setup for every other civilization, this means that Shiva would technically be the "evil" Hindu god and i don't like this definition, but it fits him better than the other two because he's the Destroyer in Hindu cosmology (Brahma is the Creator and Vishnu is the Preserver, to put this in context)

basically, i was just asking if it would be possible for one to place multiple waterfalls and then move them around so that it LOOKS like one single waterfall running from the top of a high cliff to the bottom another idea occurred to me earlier. i know that there's a specific water plane, but what if--for appearances--you could place physical water tiles on the map to make what appears to be an elevated pool (this would probably work well with the waterfalls)

well what about a possible variation in which the waterfall doesn't have a rock on top of it so that, if the scenario designer wants to, they can place multiple waterfalls in a row to make one that LOOKS like its a single continuous waterfall without actually making it so? i remember in Age of Mythology it was possible to arrange waterfalls like that, not only to make singular long waterfalls but also to make very wide ones out of several individual objects (and, with some modding tools, rotate those waterfalls to simulate raging rivers)

personally, i'd recommend making some additional waterfalls of varying height and width to line up with higher clifffaces

i have a few suggestions. namely, some eyecandy items that could be included are ones based on various clearly manmade or geologically unique features found in the world of Shadow of the Colossus. admittedly, this is just because i watched a Let's Play of it recently and i've thought that it would be cool if that world could be recreated as a gigantic scenario map in 0ad

yes they are. i was just listing the AOE civs from the first and second game and their expansions. that's also why i only listed an idea for the Mayans, which were at the height of their power or approaching it during 0 A.D.'s timeframeand, as stated in a Q&A about the inclusion of the Aztecs and Mayans to AOK, the creators of that game clarified that they weren't savages with stone weapons and incapable of fighting off metal-using invaders (Spanish conquistadors with firearms and a few thousand native allies notwithstanding). their weapons were made of obsidian, which is many times sharper than steel when properly crafted. i even devised a basic setup of what Aztec units would be included for a separate project, reasoning that because horses were not native to their lands, they would get every infantry unit and a fast runner who is functionally a cavalryman to compensate but that's beside the point. if any Amerindian civilization were to be included, i would recommend the Mayans rather than the Aztecs or Inca. i think the only reason that the Mayans aren't as well known as the other two (and that's saying something, because the Mayans are really famous) is because their civilization had collapsed long before the Spanish arrived in Central America (ironically, they actually lasted longer than the Aztecs and Inca is resisting annexation into New Spain) true, but still, one of the ground rules about 0 A.D., iirc, is that a civilization must have been at about the height of its power between 500 BC and 500 AD in order to be included (hence dating the Romans to Caesar's time and the Spartans to Leonidas'), which is why i didn't mark down a Viking civilization in my earlier post: the Viking Age began after 500 AD, and why the Egyptians are of the Ptolemaic dynasties rather than the independent ones, because the Egyptians were not independent following 402 BC and were arguably more distinct under Greek rule than under Persian (at least, i assume)

coincidentally, i came up with an idea for how to set up the criteria of further civ additions. stay with me on this, because it might be a little confusing. 0 A.D. is basically a spiritual successor to Age of Empires, right? every single one of the civilizations in the game (broadly) has been represented somewhere in the AOE series. now, perhaps future civilizations could be decided upon based on other civs that have been in the AOE series (namely AOE and AOK). this could even include civs that could have been included but weren't for whatever reason. okay, so here's my new proposals for future 0ad civs based on the first and second AOE games and their respective expansions (i'm just listing them; some of these obviously wouldn't fit into the game's timeframe; ones that are already represented are crossed out): Assyrians Austrians Aztecs Babylonians Britons (Anglo-Saxons in part2) Carthaginians (Carthaginians) Celts (Brythonic Celts) Choson>Koreans Egyptians (Ptolemaic Egyptians) Franks (Gaulish Celts) Goths Greeks>Byzantines (Athenians, Spartans) (Eastern Romans in part2) Hittites>Turks Huns (Huns in part2) Inca Indians (Mauryan Indians) Italians Khmer Macedonians (Macedonians) Magyars/Hungarians Mayans (Mayans in part2) Minoans Mongols Palmyrans Persians (Achaemenid Persians) (Sassanid Persians in part2) Phoenicians Poles/Polish Romans (Republican Romans) (Western Romans in part2) Russians Saracens* (Himyar Arabs) Shang>Chinese (Han Chinese) Spanish (Iberians) Sumerians Swiss Teutons ("Germanics") Tibetans Vikings Yamato>Japanese (Yamato Japanese) *i decided to mark Saracens by themselves because it's a rather collective term for Arabs again, these are just a few suggestions and ideas

true, but Thermopylae is still one of the most famous battles of the Ancient Worldjumping off my earlier suggestions, a thought occurs to me. perhaps, instead of focusing on everyone civilization at a given point, each of the six original civs is represented instead: just one of the Hellenic factions, just one of the Celtic ones, the Iberians, the Romans, the Persians, and the Carthaginians in various settings from their most famous historical events: again, the Greek representative could be Thermopylae (or, to give focus only to the Hellenes, it could be the aforementioned Mantineia), the one for Carthage could be Hannibal crossing the Alps, the Celts have Boudicca's rebellions, and--for a bit of drama--the final one shown could be for the Romans and depict Caesar's assassination, with the camera flying into Caesar's eye as the fade to black (or perhaps moving up and out of the building to show a night sky0 and then the title comes up

what i'd personally recommend, when it comes to a "frozen time" cinematic, is perhaps using a public-domain downloadable CG image generator. you see this kind of thing all over the place, its sometimes used to show comics but i'm sure you could make an entire three-dimensional environment with it and have the camera move through that. it wouldn't even need to look any different, as you could potentially import models from 0ad to the software and position them appropriately as for content, i'd recommend picking out some key battles and other major events and recreating them with 0ad models to show off the variety of civilizations, units, and so on within the game as well as what could happen in the game by switching around the participants of some famous battles. for instance, it could show the Spartans fighting the Persians at Thermopylae, Alexander invading India, Caesar in Gaul, and then--to throw them for a loop--some Iberians throwing boulders down on Carthaginian elephants as they cross the mountains, Brythonic warriors stalking Ptolemaic gatherers, and maybe a council of the most famous leaders of every civilization meeting in Athens, which then fades to black and the title comes up

in my opinion, the best way for them to work would be to make them like the relics in AOM: there are no positive or negative effects to not having them, and collecting one and depositing it in a temple (or maybe civic center) only give you a benefit unless its specifically programmed otherwise (these would be edtior-only relics)

Achaemenid Persians Athenians Brythonic Celts Carthaginians Gaulish Celts Iberians Macedonians Mauryan Indians Republican Romans Spartans and possibly the Ptolemaic Egyptians since the Ptolemies seem to be upcoming, i would personally recommend the addition of one more civ for an even twelve (personally, my vote is for the Syracusans)

only if they're designed like this: XDDDDD

i was about to recommend that any unit could pickthem up, but it occurs to me how unbalanced that would be. depending on when they become available, i say either hero units OR priests/healers. if someone finds an exceptionally valuable relic near their territory, that would give them incentive to build up their economy and advance as quickly as possible so that they can send out one of their heroes to recover it and give 'em a boost"Egg of Leda" would actually make a much better representative relic for the Spartans than Achilles' armor. perhaps it could give a health bonus to citizen-soldiers? even if its bunk, it's just for a game

there should probably be one or two relics for each civ. i would personally recommend using (arguably) historical ones as much as possible, but mythological or outright fictional ones if there's no other choice or if a relic for one civ would just be a repeat of another. the good thing about relics is that we'd be able to look at pre-500bc ones instead of necessarily having to go for the regular timeframe. i presume these relics would function similarly to the relics in AOM? here's some suggestions of my own: Śarīra (Mauryan Indians): this fits into the general timeframe of the game and to the area, though it's a generic term for Buddhist relics. it usually refers to a pearl- or crystal-like bead found among the cremated remains of Buddhist spiritual masters and is believed to ward off evil. perhaps its bonus would be to boost morale in the surrounding area? Gáe Bulg (Brythonic Celts): a mythological item, this was the spear of the legendary Irish warrior Cú Chulainn and made from the bone of a sea monster. i'd say the uses of it would be to increase the strength and power of all of the holding player's units that use spears (perhaps extending to javelin-throwers to make it more useful and desirable among players) much like several different relics in AOM Armor of Achilles (Spartans): another mythological item, i decided to mark it down as the Spartan relic because of Achilles' reputation as a warrior and the largely warrior-associated culture of the Spartans. the effects would probably be to make your hero units virtually indestructible, making it really useful only in the later stages of the game.

as long as some editor-only units and buildings for the Ancient Egyptians are included, it'll be fine

that would work best with a nomadic horseman culture like the Huns

it's always been my understanding that the focus of 0ad was originally Rome and civilizations that they encountered, which is why i've suggested time and again that the original pack focus on exactly that (with the exception of the Mauryans, which the Romans didn't encounter but the Greeks did), the second pack have a similar focus but in the 1-500ad period, and then two other packs for each respective period for the "non-Roman" world, which would be where alot of Asian cultures come up, not only the Chinese but also the Japanese and Koreans as well as some from other continents, like the Aksumites of eastern Africa and the Mayans of Mesoamerica (whose civilization was at its height or approaching it during the 1-500ad period)

so the Macedonian lighthouses would be like the lighthouse buildings in Empire Earth, then?as a note, there was also a lighthouse building in AOM (buildable only by the Egyptians, no less) which served a double function of just revealing a large potion of the map, water and land alike. i suggest that, if specifying that the lighthouses reveal only water turns out to be too difficult to program (or just not worth the effort) then they could conceivably reveal both land and water but are only buildable along shorelines the Temple of Edfu definitely looks more like an iconic Egyptian wonder than the Library of Alexandria since its not only Ptolemaic but also has more distinctly Egyptian architecture and is dedicated to an Egyptian god, not to mention that it has classic Egyptian artwork on it out of curiosity, would any heiroglyphic representations be in color? it's my understanding that the hieroglyphics that adorn tomb walls in the pyramids, at least, were at one time vibrantly colored but faded until they matched the stonework underneath. if any such representations are in color, they would definitely make the Ptolemaic buildings alot more interesting to look at

i think the most efficient way of making slavery a gameplay feature would be to do what Empire Earth's expansion pack did: make it something that can be researched by applicable civilizations (the Persians, notably, would not be allowed to have slaves in-game because the practice was abolished by Cyrus the Great in the 6th century BC), and those civilizations gain slaves by killing enemy units (simulating prisoners of war) so instead of having to physically Capture a citizen-soldier or female citizen, you just kill them and there's a chance that a free Slave unit will appear at your civic center aesthetically, the slaves for each civilization could be styled to resemble peasants/commoners of every other playable civ. so, for example, the Celts could kill enemy units and they would get slaves which, though functioning exactly the same as each other and the same as those of other civs, would resemble Persians, Indians, Greeks, Iberians, and so on