oshron

hey, someone took one of my suggestions!

well good to hear that it will still be an RTS personally, though, i like the "progression" method of the AOE games and Empire Earth however, i must ask: would it be possible to have fanmade "progression" campaigns as well?

but...i thought 0 A.D. was gonna be real-time strategy, not real-time tactics

the Phoenicians/Carthaginians are, indeed, planned for inclusion as part of the Semitic civilization, along with the Hebrews and the Canaanites

they need to finish the darn game first but i've had some thoughts myself, namely that there should be one official campaign for every civilization, sometimes based (at least in part) on campaigns from other games; in the vein of Age of Kings, these campaigns could be named after the main figure of each one, such as: Carthaginian campaign: Hannibal Gaulish campaign: Vercingetorix (?) Macedonian campaign: Alexander Persian campaign: Cyrus Roman campaign: Caesar there could also be a "Battle of the Conquerors"-like campaign. for those who don't know or don't remember, "Battle of the Conquerors" was a "campaign" from Age of Kings that could be played out of order and focused on singular battles or events from a civilizations' history, such as the Battle of Hastings for the Franks (representing the Normans), the settlement of Vinland for the Vikings, and the Battle of Agincourt for the Britons (representing the English). one of these could be the Battle of Thermopylae and the Battle of Salamis: you play as the Athenians but have control of a bunch of Spartan units (including Leonidas) who must hold their position at the Hot Gates while your workers in towns south of there collect resources to build ships during and after Thermopylae; after a set amount of time, a cinematic shows the classical death of the Spartans (though this counts as victory for this part of it) and then you have to win the Battle of Salamis against the Persian navy.

exactly the same argument i made for the Library *rolls eyes*

i decided to take a look at Wonders from the Age of Empires series and from Rise of Nations, so here's some ideas based on that: Flavian Ampitheater (hypothetical Western Romans; Part 2) Hagia Sophia (hypothetical Eastern Romans; Part 2) *this would be a bit of a stretch since the Hagia Sophia was built starting in 532, just barely past the cutoff date for a hypothetical Part 2 Mauseoleum of Theodoric (hypothetical Goths; Part 2) *another stretch since it was built in 520 AD "conquered monument" (hypothetical Huns; Part 2) *another stretch, more because it would be fictional rather than historical Tikal Temple (hypothetical Mayans) *this would, of course, assume that Mayans are ever included; unlike the preceding civilizations ive mentioned, Mayans have never been seriously considered by the design team as far as i know Statue/Temple of Zeus (one of the Greek civilizations) Theater of Dionysus (one of the Greek civilizations) Mausoleum of Halicarnassos (one of the Greek civilizations) Colossus of Rhodes (one of the Greek civilizations; again, i'd recommend giving it to the Spartans) Terracotta Army (hypothetical Chinese) Hanging Gardens of Babylon (possibly the Persians; Part 1)

personally, i think the Library is more representative: because it was the greatest store of knowledge in the Ancient World it's more awe-inspiring than a lighthouse (it may have been huge, but thats really all that the Pharos Lighthouse definitively was) it's named after the most famous Macedonian in history (technically, it's for the city named after Alexander, but same difference ) in the context of the game and random maps, you could reason that "Alexandria" is anywhere and not necessarily in Egypt, thus whatever city you build the Library in can be considered "Alexandria" while it's not one of the Wonders of the Ancient World, it's more evocative of the Ancient World than the Lighthouse is (it would largely be important that alot of the actual Wonders of the World not be included because alot of them either don't fall into the timeframe of 0 AD or the civilizations which built them are not playable, like the Egyptians or Babylonians)

btw, if you haven't decided on one yet (and decide to include such buildings), i'd like to recommend the Library of Alexandria as the unique Macedonian Wonder

while, theoretically, you would be able to make a tunnel as long as you wanted it to be in real life, for the purposes of gameplay i think that it should be limited to a set distance with very high costs at greater distances. maybe it could be one in-game mile at most. the reason i think it should be limited is because, realistically, you wouldnt want your soldiers in an exceptionally long tunnel far away from any exit in case it collapses, which would become riskier and riskier the longer the tunnel is. for scenario design, though, special tunnels that can cross water and have indefinite range would be useful, much like the Underworld Passage in Age of Mythology the tunnel collapsing, i'd think, would just overcomplicate things even IF its more realistic that way. just destroy the entrances and you'll entomb them before they can escape anyway. another possibility arises, though, that you could use tunnels just to transport your units between your own territory, such as across otherwise impassable mountains or forest so that they don't have to walk all the way around. as for sapping, i would personally suggest actual sapper units as a different siege weapon that civilizations that aren't known to use "traditional" siege engines could have. for exampe, for my mythology mod idea's Egyptians, i decided to give them some sappers as their one and only basic siege unit, functionally identical to a Ram even though they aren't ACTUALLY rams

inaccuracies aside, it kinda broke preconceived notions that the Aztecs and Mayans were stone age savages and cemented them as much more interesting cultures that used obsidian like how the Europeans and Asians used metal. again, the point of inclusion for the the Mayans would simply be that they be included for fun rather than the fact that they encountered the other civilizations. after all, the Iberians never fought the Indians or the Persians, but no one's complaining about that.

now, what do we have for Wonders (or Wonder ideas) so far? the Hanging Gardens of Babylon (?) (Achaemenid Persians) the Parthenon (Athenians) Stonehenge (Britons) Carthaginians Gauls Iberians Library of Alexandria (Macedonians) Mauryan Indians the Forum (?) (Republican Romans) "the Colossus of Rhodes" (?) Spartans the Hanging Gardens just occurred to me as an idea. though the Gardens predate the Persians and were built by the Babylonians, iirc one story behind it was that Nebuchadnezzar II's wife was Persian or Median, so there's some slight justification for it

i think the Mayans would be a good choice, included only for fun. i wasn't interested at the time to have experienced it myself, but i bet that alot of oldschool AOE fans were ecstatic when they learned that the AOK expansion would include the Mayans and Aztecs, because they're so exotic compared to "mundane" civilizations like Celts or Germans, and even compared to the fascinating Far Eastern civilizations like China and Japan.

yeah, Stonehenge is always a nice default. but it would only work for the Brythonic Celts, wouldn't it? what do the Gaulish Celts get?

i think it'd be easier to either make pontoon bridge aesthetic units and a special texture to make a physical bridge that can't be destroyed, (which has already been done in the context of the game) or alternatively make one that sits on top of the water and can't be crossed by ships, eg land units can walk on it but ships can't pass it, so they have to destroy it. this would be useful for design purposes, like Caesar's invasion of Germany or Alexander's campaign at Tyre, but it's definitely superfluous when it comes to regular gameplay. perhaps it could be available to every civilization but disabled in regular gameplay, and can only be enabled through the scenario editor so that you don't have to protect an individual bridge that can't be replaced. in the latter case, though, that opens up interesting traps: let your opponent build a pontoon bridge to your island, then use your ships and siege to destroy each end and trap their units, then you can pick them off

the Mayans are the most famous, though; there should only be the one representative from the Americas while the rest is Old World civs. there's plenty of other, more distinct Old World civs that could be included instead of (perceived) similar/nearly identical Mesoamerican civs. some Olmec or Mixtec units and buildings could be included for design purposes, but i say that only the Mayans should be included as a playable civ

save the Mayans for the 1-500ad pack

its sort-of intended as a spiritual successor to AOM

i know that the forum was more just a place BETWEEN buildings, but something thats supposed to be like the forum (maybe very large pillar surrounding a fountain on very detailed marble textures for the floor. another plus to the Forum being a wonder would be that, as far as i know, its never been done before in an RTS that includes the romans incidentally, what wonder do you all think would be best for the Macedonians? i think the best choice would probably the the Library of Alexandria. and what about the Spartans? as far as i know, they werent big on building monuments, so maybe something fictional but based on something real could work? perhaps an emulation of the Colossus of Rhodes?

iirc, there are some historical instances of "air units" in some cultures. the only one that comes to mind is kites used by the ancient chinese, though. but conceivably, just for scenario design, there could be a few air units to give precedent for future modspersonally, the way i think flying units could work best would be that they aren't affected by most obstructions (walls, trees, etc) and terrain (including otherwise impassable cliffs or water), are more susceptible to changes in weather (such as wind or rain), and can only be attacked by ranged units. technically, theyre on the ground, but dont abide by the normal rules of land units

i was just giving examples of wonders and their respective powers from Empire Earth; of those listed there, the Tower of Babel and possibly the Coliseum should be excluded, the former because its more mythical than historical, and the latter because coliseums were found all over the roman world, so the one in rome wasn't really unique for its time. as i said before, something evocative of the roman senate should be given to the Pre-Imperial Romans as their wonder instead while coliseums are included in the editor for design purposes alternatively, the Pre-Imperial Roman wonder could be the Roman Forum even though it would be less impressive than a coliseum or a mighty temple. ideas could also be taken from Age of Empires, from the first installment and its expansion for Part 1 and from AOK for Part 2; for example, a possible Hunnic wonder could be virtually identical to what it is in AOK: The Conquerors--a looted Arch of Constantine (or any exceptionally large arch) with broken pieces and a horde of treasure around it, suggesting that its part of a city that the Huns conquered even if its not exactly historical. in the case of the Huns, i think some leeway could be given on that matter since they were nomads and the hunnic empire never actually had a capital city, just territory that the huns controlled. after all, some artistic liberties have already been taken in the design of some buildings

i say, for the purposes of random map/multiplayer gameplay, wonders that you can actually build should just be generic and give no abilities, except for a "wonder victory" like in the AOE games. at the same time, though, there would be special versions of those same wonders as well as others which grant different abilitiesto give such examples from a different RTS (Empire Earth) there were six wonders that gave different abilities to the player that built them (keep in mind that some of these were misspelled in the actual game): Coliseum: expands population limit Ishtar Gate: makes your walls sturdier Library of Alexandria: reveals all buildings Pharaoh's Lighthouse (Pharos Lighthouse): reveals all water within a large area Temple of Zeus: makes all your units self-heal (as a note, no units in Empire Earth, except for heroes, could heal their own wounds, but since 0 AD has regenerating units last i checked, a wonder with this power could probably just increase their rate of regeneration as well as let them heal while working or moving) Tower of Babylon (Tower of Babel): allows priests to convert enemy units with an area of effect (eg, instead of converting just one unit out of a group, a priest will convert that unit and others nearby/next to it) so, in the context of 0 AD, the Athenians, for instance, would have the Parthenon as their wonder which, under normal circumstances, just let them get a wonder victory if it stands for ten minutes or so in random maps. simultaneously, the editor would let a scenario designer access a different version of the Parthenon which would give some kind of special power, probably related to athenian culture or perhaps greek religion (since it was a temple to athena)

i get the American and Australian animals, but "bison" can technically refer to a European species. or would you prefer to use the term "wisent"? as for your question, lion.kanzen, the guanaco is a relative of the llama (see, camels actually evolved in South America and later migrated to the Americas, where they died out completely, and to Africa and Asia, where they persist today in the more classical camel forms)

yeah, i saw the list; i was just giving my own suggestions that could be used to amend the list with new critters. of the ones i suggested, id simplify it down to:African Wild Dog Armadillo Beaver Bison Capercaillie Cassowary (?) Chimpanzee Eland Giraffe Kangaroo (?) Leopard Seal (?) Llama Musk Ox Opossum Orangutan Pangolin Penguin (?) Platypus (?) Raccoon Rattlesnake Raven Saiga Tapir Wolverine i attached (?)'s to the Australasian and Antarctic animals because, even in the scope of maps included just for fun (like the polar ones) those ones would be less likely than an American or Far Eastern environment. as an aside, i would also recommend looking at other RTS games and cross-comparing animals from those games with your own. for example, AOM had a crowned crane as well as sharing alot of animals that you have listed also, i thought you were also planning to include a dragon for a special random map?

*shrug* the castle of camelot?