oshron

well depending on what civ built the roads, presumably they could be designed differently. unfortunately, i dont know much about what roads way back then looked like or if there was any real difference between them. do we even know what iron age roads looked like? maybe the player could start out only being able to build dirt roads which they cant upgrade individually, but later be able to upgrade so that new roads are more professional looking ones like stone and tile

which makes sense; iirc, the historical helepolis was built on-site rather than being shipped there, whole or in pieces

i would definitely recommend including buildable roads for all civilizations (except for any that didnt use them) as well as including something which was suggested a long time ago: to make it so that informal roads could appear over heavily-traf@#$%ed terrain, such as caravan paths. it would not only be a nice detail of realism, but could also give opposing players hints as to where their enemy's caravans are

kinda like in Empire Earth 2, then speaking of naming stuff, will the player be able to rename units in the editor for the purposes of design? for example, maybe renaming the Alexander the Great hero so that he's called Agamemnon for a Trojan War scenario?

cool, cuz in my own research i learned that the egyptians apparently never used camelry, but i wasnt sure about more easterly peoples like the arabs and indians

was camelry even utilized in the ancient world?

well if the sarmatians had a peak of only about a decade, wouldnt it be better to have some larger group from the region with the sarmatians represented to some extent or as a divergent path? maybe the scythians?

personally, i think it would be good for scenario design if some (for want of a better word) less-distinct peoples could be simulated with a few editor-only unique units and buildings and perhaps a reskinning technology which visually changes units (so, for example, hellenes/romans could be "reskinned" to SIMULATE the etruscans)

that, of course, was the idea with Age of Empires, too

my general point was to give more variety to the game. historicity aside, dont you think it would be fun to play a game where historically accurate mayans, romans, huns, and indians to all wage war against each other at the same time? admittedly, three of these four civs or rough equivalents to them were all in AOK, but lets face it, AOK wasnt as accurate as it could have been (though was still quite fun). in my own case, i had thought it would be fun to recreate scenarios from several other RTS games in 0ad, like maybe the greek campaign from Empire Earth being completely redone in 0ad since it matches perfectly for that timespan, or perhaps the attila campaign from AOK

thats the idea, as i understand it

personally, i still think that civic centers should have to be built over settlements like in AOM; it helps control the population limit on a given map. in that way, you technically dont need to include a population capacity, you just have to limit the buildings that PROVIDE population capacity (say, 15 houses providing a total of 150 population as well as whatever settlements you can capture and build civic centers over). it would also be useful for a hypothetical provincial mode so that regions are centered on a settlement instead of arranged randomly (Empire Earth 2 is a prime example) a more aesthetic idea that ive had based on some previous comments is that there could be "sites of power", basically serving the same territorial functions as a civic center but looking like something else and training different units/technologies depending on what it actually is. it could work for scenario design by making the player capture an inn that would be used as a home base in that scenario

perhaps it can be that all citizen-soldiers and female citizens head for the nearest civic center/tower/whathaveyou. however, citizen-soldiers are ejected from the building theyve run into at the sound of the town bell after theyve reached full health (if the buildings are like they were in AOK, garrisoned units will regenerate faster, right?). units that've been injured will stay in the building until theyre all healed up and then take up arms to join the fight, while any that are already at full health will be ejected immediately. this could also potentially be useful by letting the women and injured take up space in the garrison instead of the healthy fighters

DPFAR: i DID manage to squeeze in another authentic critter for the aztecs, the Tlahuelpuchi. its a shapeshifting vampire, but its technically of tlaxcallan origin (i gave it it Nanauatzin partly because i decided that minor god wouldnt be available to the major god Quetzalcoatl because the tlaxcallans hated the aztecs). now i just need to bullshit up a myth unit for Mixcoatl

iirc, the carthaginians used the (now extinct) north african forest elephant. presumably, the persians would have used the indian elephant, if for no other reason than that it was the closest species to the central parts of their empire

ive been doing a bit of work on the aztec civilization and would like some extra opinions on one matter. simply put, ive run out of real myth units that they can use, both of aztec AND mayan origin; ive already cheated a bit by giving them a semi-invented skin-walker, a mayan vision serpent and giant bat, and a chupacabra. at the moment, id like to know what everyone thinks about the potential inclusion of a completely invented myth unit: a terror bird. i even have an actual nahuatl name for it, "Tatapatli Ichtecqui". since the aztecs will be the game's only representative of what is now latin america (the mississippians, in contrast, will cover anglo-america), im willing to stretch their definition to encompass some myth units that have their origins elsewhere in latin america (one that i kind of have my eye on is "yacumama" of the amazon) but ill only be including them if i can find nahuatl names for any other ideas, im still missing aztec mythological units Nanauatzin (City Phase god of the sun), Mixcoatl (Empire Phase god of the hunt) and possibly ones for Chichomecoatl (Town Phase goddess of agriculture, already has a vision serpent), Mayahuel (Town Phase goddess of maguey plants, already has chaneque), Huehueteotl (Empire Phase aged god, already has xiuhcoatl), Coatlicue (Legend Phase goddess of stars, already has a giant vampire bat), Tezcatlipoca (Legend Phase god of jaguars, already has feathered serpent), and Tlaloc (Legend Phase god of rain, already has xelhua) for quick reference, this is the order of phases for godstorm: 1. Village Phase -- simplest selection with only a few citizen-soldiers and no ships, siege, or myth units 2. Town Phase -- the first ships and myth units are made available 3. City Phase -- all ships and siege become available as well as the first champion units (shared by all major gods in a civ) 4. Empire Phase -- all other champion units become available (the ones which are unique to each major god) 5. Legend Phase -- all units and buildings that are available to a given civ are available, as well as the most powerful myth units

personally i would recommend just the mayans, though, since they were at about the height of their power or approaching it during the 0ad period (500bc-500ad; i cant remember exactly when) based on some other posts here, im now thinking that it would be good if all the civs in hypothetical third and fourth packs were not encountered/known by the romans (at least not extensively) but if they are known to other civs from the first two packs, then it would be a plus (like argantonius suggested concerning the huns and the chinese, though im personally not actually sure if those two peoples ever encountered each other or if thats just disney )

aah, so the cardaces would be kind of like the black robes or specifically german units from empire earth?

i cast my vote for Imperium, too. that is, IF the romans are included in the next alpha release

personally, i started working it out that such limited civs wouldnt be able to slaughter certain animals for food, but would get a different bonus instead; for a hypothetical israelite civ, for instance, i decided to make one of their defining traits that they cant slaughter all kinds of animals like other civs, but get a very very small favor bonus (its the same mythology mod, godstorm) in exchange, in reference to the kosher diet. presumably, a muslim civ could get the same bonus and hindus a vaguely similar bonus but applying only to cattle

thats true, but the idea of my suggestion and others is that the lineup of civs for 0ad eventually expand out of the roman world to include civs that the romans never encountered or even knew about (such as the chinese, japanese, and mayans)

personally, ive liked to think of it along the lines of there being a wild and domestic form for different applicable animals (ex: pig/boar, cattle/aurochs, chicken/gamebird) with the former being more like animals which have happened to wander away from their original owners and already docile enough to be herded back to your own town. in contrast, the wild animals would be pretty much the same as the domestic animals, with the same stats and whatnot, but you can only hunt them (in the case of elephants here, there would be a breeding/wild equivalent instead of domestic/wild) alternatively, and i think this is what is already planned, each civilization is technically capable of domesticating animals like elephants, but its only enabled for certain civs (like the carthaginians). presumably, then, couldnt this work for other animals? maybe the celts have the unique trait of domesticating wolves to make their warhounds train faster? and one thing that occurred to me when designing mythical civs for godstorm is that some religions prohibit the consumption of some foods. would such religious dietary limitations come into play in 0ad? (for example, would a hypothetical hindu indian civ not be able to domesticate cattle?)

which makes me wonder: would pigs also give a resource trickle, since they dont really have any "production" value in real life as far as i know; theyre pretty much only used for slaughter, as opposed to cows, goats, and chickens which provide dairy and eggs

i think the only resource that should be readily renewable should be forage patches: berry bushes and such

yeah, thats how i always understood it, but such actions are only implied. obviously it would be counterproductive to make full animations for a farmer milking a cow, but the idea and action is still there. jumping off this, though, it would be pretty cool if there were aesthetic objects such as chicken coops