real_tabasco_sauce

go crazy: This is option 2 in the poll. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4683

You mean this patch? https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4674 I made the crush change you suggested by the way.

+ + could be interesting. I guess this could be combined with your archer suggestion as a civ bonus (+ archer accuracy/rank speed , spears less attack + armor). What to call it I have no idea. I think both of these would be a little crazy to be fair. I think all CS cav in p1 is good (maybe not hyrcanian cav because of crush), but I think you should have to get a stable for the full menu so to speak. This sounds awesome, although I am unsure if it should go in p2 or 3. It is certainly more interesting than the current conscription tech for pers. At least my hyrcanian cav idea might be a little differentiation

ok everyone, new version of the mod (i expect this to be the last version): In this version, the base crush dps (for all axe cav) was returned to the pre-existing rate. axecav_overhaul_mod_v0.1.3.zip

+ it can't be more useless than it already is tho.

Yeah I guess you are right. It's just these units are basically useless at the moment aside from anti ram. So at least now they will be of interest strategically. Surely it's better than the status quo. If you try my mod just to give them a spin, maybe they will be of more interest.

people seem very eager to discuss hypothetical balance changes and debate what to do, but not so eager to discuss the balance of actual changes. i have had 2 balancing advisor feedback on this (quite significant) change for hyrcanian cavalry: I made a mod and a patch, but still very little feedback from balancing people.

@LetswaveaBook, I was talking about the mod/patch being balanced. What I envisioned in the above was sort of a glass cannon raiding unit. It is as unique as skiritai are for sparta.

yes, you are right. But at least they may now make an appearance on the battlefield. Thoughts on balance?

ok made a patch just like the mod above. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4674

you can micro at the moment, just not very much. Perhaps battles seem longer to me due to lag XD. I bet if the game performed perfectly, they would appear much faster too. Instead of lowering damage values, raise repeat times. If my understanding is correct, this would reduce the number of range queries needed per unit time. I played a23 btw. The main thing that stood out to me were the slinger death balls.

Estoy de acuerdo.

OK, after testing, this last version is pretty ideal. They are weak units with lots of hack and a little crush, they move quite fast but it doesn't look unnatural. They lose (close) to spearcav with a25 values, lose to spearmen. They beat javelin cav but not by much, especially considering the cost. They can break palisades with ease and deal lots of damage to unattended eco, but they fall fairly quickly to building arrows. This unit will not make pers OP like carth swordcav made carthage OP, but rather provide a unique and fun tool to punish undefended eco. @chrstgtr @ValihrAnt @BreakfastBurrito_007 @Dizaka @Philip the Swaggerless @Edwarf if people like it, I could make a patch really quick, although it is a bit of a hack job.

Ok it has been raised to my attention that these are busted XD. Here are changes for version 0.1.2: Axe cav parent -1 pierce, reverting the +1 pierce armor increase, hyrcanian cav now have 3 hack 2 pierce. Health bonus for rank 3 is removed, reverting HP back to rank 1 level (160).

i'm not talking about fighting, I am talking about how fast you could boom with these units. One of the biggest strengths of ptol is how early you can get p3 and launch a full scale attack (with upgrades, seige). 35f 35w and 6 seconds would take it to a new level (this costs 20 more res than a woman and trains 2 seconds faster). Then, you have to factor in the 220 pop space. It's just inadvisable to do this. Better to increase their dps to match slingers. The only way I could see this being a little balanced is as a p3 unique tech To be honest I like the fast paced fighting, but to each their own.

I guys I made a quick mod to make these cavalry more interesting. Currently, they are basically bad, with much less dps and armor than swordcav. firstly: All axecav get +1 pierce, swordcav hack dps, a little less crush dps, and slower repeat time for differentiation (could be better for quickly dealing damage) This mod makes the hyrcanian cav a unique raiding unit, with a cost profile similar to skiritai commandos, only instead of the armor increase of training at rank 3, they receive a speed increase. They also drop more loot, have more hp. I kept acceleration the same as all melee cav. hyrcanian stats in the mod and patch: 160hp, 3 hack armor, 2 pierce armor, 100 food, 40 wood, 35 metal, 18.7 hack, 5 crush per 1.5 seconds, 20 m/s walk speed. also 22 second train time. To apply this mod, add it to your mods folder in application support (Application\ Support/0ad/mods/ ). I would love it if balancing people gave me feedback, preferably with some in game testing. axecav_overhaul_mod_v0.1.3.zip

Oh, I thought you meant capture a stable in order to train normal cavalry units. In a23 if you captured an enemy fort or siege workshop you could train a mauryan ram.

I guess this would be like the maur ram before A24.

Oh, right I forgot about this change. It would still be very broken. +

absolutely not. this would immediately make han the most broken civ. Imagine how fast this would boom. You would be 200 pop in 5 mins. Especially considering the farming strengths of han, this would be a nightmare. I could see this being some upgrade in p3 with some effects on their HP or something, but absolutely not in p1.

If an army is attacking with rams, you will need an army to defend the wall. Walls should never be a standalone defense. I think @BreakfastBurrito_007's ideas are good, except we keep HP the same or greater. would these attributes were from a "fortified wall" upgrade available p3?

Of the changes @BreakfastBurrito_007 described, wall HP would have the least effect. TBH it could remain as is. Even if you added 1000 HP walls will still go down in a flash with multiple rams. The big worry is that walls placed in forests could be invulnerable to rams, maybe just making walls easier to place in general could be enough (smaller footprint, etc).

The mod accounts for scores averaged across gametime, so rushes have more of an impact than they do just by looking at end of game scores, but its not great. Acero and I discussed how to account for rushes. thoughts on this? effectiveness = military score*(game pop cap/ avg game pop)/ resources spent [ex. rush at ~3 mins, total game pop is 160/1600 = 20 percent -> military score of involved players (rusher and rush defender) receive 80% boost] I could honestly envision this to replace the current score breakdown: eco score: res spent (or gathered+trade) military score effectiveness (as above) alternatively, you could tie the boost directly to military score, but I like it as above. I imagine from these three stats, you could compute a pretty equitable player score, even using @Mentula's mod! ^per @alre's suggestion, effectiveness could also be called "population-weighted military/economy ratio", "normalized military/economy ratio" or "normalized value ratio".

very little space on my computer, but maybe I can try. edit: xcode takes 12 GB need more than double that for intall apparently