real_tabasco_sauce

I’d say I agree with most of what you mentioned. Particularly that play testing will be needed. one thing that could be done along the lines of rebalance is adjusting default and max arrows. forts have only 1 more than ccs. So to increase the standalone defensive value of forts, the default arrows should be like 8

@chrstgtr @BreakfastBurrito_007 I'm pretty sure the situation was fixed thanks to @Freagarach. I added a sort so that the closes unit is always the default target. Previously, the unit that entered the towers radius first was the target, and if it moved away, it would still be targeted.temp.zip Sorry the mod isn't polished, its really just to get proof of concept. Unzip and move to your mods folder, and be sure to disable the normal community mod before using this version.

1. Arrows do not fire all at the same time, it is a stream of arrows (very low overkill regardless of accuracy) 2. How do you think killing 1 horse versus injuring 4 impacts raid outcomes? Overgeneralizing things with plenty of nuance doesn't help. If you are worried buildings will be weak in terms of balance, their damage and default arrows can be changed as needed.

Oh, interesting, I was not aware of this patch. If this is doable, I'd love to let siege towers be the only unit capable of capturing walls.

Well, if you go ahead and get the mod, we can test it out next time we meet. The current version posted elsewhere also includes the accuracy changes for cc/fort. It will be called "community-mod" but importantly the folder is "temp". You should definitely disable the current community mod v4 before applying the buildingAI mod.

+ increased spread for cc and fort to 3 and 4 respectively.

Those look great! @wowgetoffyourcellphone

So far, I have run into no problems. I have adjusted CC spread to 2.5 from 1.5, and forts to 3 from 1.5. I don't really see the point of just adding it to ships and siege towers, because it's most important that it is a change for buildings. @wowgetoffyourcellphone has future system for ships envisioned, and I have a plan to change the primary role of siege towers to a capture attack (community mod). There won't really be a need to split anything, since buildingAI is a quality you can enable in the templates for units. For instance, you can give archers buildingAI and they will act like little siege towers.

I would have to make a copy of buildingAI, call it "shipAI" and only give shipAI to the siege towers and ships. also, here is the patch: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4964

Well, since it is a modification of BuildingAI as a whole, I can't just add it to ships and siege towers. I can open a patch and make a merge request if it doesn't wind up in a27. I think this kind of change is probably far too late to add in release process, but I am not sure how long the last two release blockers will take.

this one was a real treasure of a mod.

if u want to try it, you can use this mod:temp.zip It is just based off of the community mod (which explains the large file size), so when you install it, you might want to disable the existing community mod version first.

Ok, so I fixed the following today. No freezing, and buildings are targeted last. I'll make a patch in a few hours.

It does happen fairly frequently, although I personally haven't seen it for a couple of weeks.

Well the way I did it, the closest unit is selected as the target and it will be targeted until destruction. Whatever is closest is attacked until death, so If the target is a building, it has to be destroyed. Obviously, this solution is really just a proof of concept so I could make the video above. Ideally, the script could check for any soldiers within range before resorting to attacking a building. Also ideally, one attack's worth of arrows (default+garrisoned arrows per 2 seconds) would be sent to the closest target in targetUnits. After all the arrows are sent, the closest unit would be searched for again, rather than shooting the now more distant unit to death. The second task might not be too hard, but for the first, I have no idea how to check the class of an entity in targetUnits. And then there are the freezing issues. I can open a patch later today if people think we should go ahead with this idea.

My little hack seems to work for buildings and siege towers until the crash, I haven't tried it with ships. yeah it works with ships too. I had to remove the weighted list for targets for it to work, so currently buildings are equally considered alongside units (since it's really just by proximity). Would it be fine for towers to shoot buildings if they are the closest unit? Or would it be better to first find a soldier within range and only shoot buildings if there are no soldiers? I am very inexperienced with javascript (this was my first time writing js), so should I open a WIP patch or would someone with more experience rather take up the idea?

I remember someone told me it was related in some way to the custom rating mod, but I can't confirm.

Here is a video of what I made. It works as intended until the spearman crosses the minimum range, then 0ad stops responding.

My thoughts were more to the effect of: structures with more default/garrisoned arrows (forts, ccs) would have more spread, while towers would have less spread. This way towers are more precise at longer ranges, with less risk for over kill. Forts and CCs on the other hand would get a slight spread increase compared to towers, with forts probably more than CCs. Then going further, I think it would be better to allow player control of the building arrows than provide stances to adjust building behavior, but that's just my opinion.

I think with the right spread values, this could be optimized to be less of a problem, but I see what u mean.

what do you mean by snapping around? I'd say ideally, ships could end up with something more like unitAI for fighting (I think we talked about this in the naval overhaul discussion).

I've long had my qualms with the random arrow damage provided by buildings, ships, and siege towers. While I guess it might appear more realistic, random arrows make defensive buildings unfavorable: defensive buildings do little to deter small groups of units because damage is spread across all units. These units may still deal the damage their full numbers allow. In addition, they can just go home and heal. On the same thought, this makes them less interesting for offensive purposes. defensive buildings are very effective when enough towers and forts overlap on an enemy army. Since all arrows find damage (no overkill), the towers accomplish area denial more than simply aiding the defender to beat an army. I think building defenses would be more interesting and relevant to gameplay if all building arrows of a given attack targeted 1 unit, which by default would be the closest unit to the building. In theory, this would also make player controlled building arrows a little more logical. Out of curiosity, I made a little hack on BuildingAI to try this out and it "worked", with arrows targeting 1 unit at a time. However, it was not consistently the closest unit, and it caused freezes. Is anyone else interested in this kind of change to building AI? That is, non-random targets? Has it been attempted before? ********************************* Current testing mod (based off of community mod): community-testing.zip *********************************

Hmm thats a good idea. you could calculate the minimum distance from the destination a unit should achieve based on the number of units in the selection.

I'd support a small-ish increase to the pushing values.

These look great. I am fine with either nerf option discussed for the super cc, as this is one of many han strengths. Perhaps we could also consider https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4952 here? It's a similar balance/minor content addition patch for maury.