chrstgtr

My point is that changing it to all units or something instead of just traders means you would have like a 1/6 chance of seeing a woman in a field. And a 1/2 chance of seeing a solider fighting your own army. So about 2/3 of the time you would get useless information. Current structure means you would never get useless information as knowing where traders are is always useful. Edit: a change would be nice as the tech is basically never used now and it's a cool idea. But the most common suggestion is a nerf that would make it even less likely to be used in the future.

Why would anyone want to do this? I wouldn't want to spend resources just to see that the enemy has a soldier fighting my army. Just like I wouldn't want to spend resources to see that my enemy has women farming by their CC because I already assume this. Making it so that it reveals ALL traders would be useful since it gives a more information than the base fact that a trade line runs through one specific point.

I feel like most of these takes out a lot of skill (i.e. noticing that an enemy is nearby) or disadvantages scouting (i.e. being told when enemy is building wonder). I would like if we got more notifications from allies after team vision is researched. For example, a notification that an ally has begun to build a wonder, a notification that an ally has dropped below 100 pop or a notification than an ally has less than 100 resources.

The only one that would really be useful is offensive boost (economic boost won't help because if you can build a wonder and research the tech then resource scarcity isn't an issue and defensive boost doesn't make sense because if you are at risk of losing your base then you almost certainly can't afford a wonder and its tech). Other suggestions in this thread like unlocking additional units doesn't sound like much a boost (most civs share multiple common units already and getting a few extra unit types isn't going to be much help whereas extra pop is a huge boost). I would like the option of offensive boost and/or a pop boost. Honestly a lot of other discussion in this thread sounds like it should either be already implemented in other aspects (i.e. giving civs more differentiating factors), already are in the game (wonder victory condition is already an option, so why would we delete a useful construct to make something that we already have as an option standard and limit player choice) or will not be nearly as worthwhile a benefit as the current as the simple pop benefit that it currently gives (bribing traders isn't done right now because it isn't very useful).

I will build them occasionally. No one really bans them anymore like they used to. They are often necessary to break stalemates but this usually only occurs in very long games And to answer OP's question, yes. They can be very useful for the pop bonus. Although they are less useful in a24 than before because they no longer give the the auto +10 pop bonus, so no real benefit occurs for at least 2 minutes after building even if you assume resource scarcity isn't a problem (although it usually is). So now it takes a long time to get the resources to build the wonder, a long time to get resources for the tech, and a long time to research the tech before you get any benefit. I would re-add the +10 pop bonus and/or I would increase cost and make the +20% bonus automatic. I didn't even realize there was a resource trickle until I looked up stats just now, so I wouldn't say it matters (especially because no one builds wonders unless you already have a ton of res)

I agree/like with almost all of this. Expand the tower nerf to forts and (maybe) CCs and literally all of my big balancing complaints would be gone. I have reservations about the pike/spearman counter vs. eles. This would mean that all siege melee siege is dealt best with by melee. I kind of like how rams are best dealt with by melee while eles are best dealt with by range. It forces players to have both melee and range units or else a single ram/ele could destroy an entire base. Instead I would lessen ele's pierce armor.

For reference I had 9 cata in that game. Dizaka was all but dead at minute 18 but because of turtle game lasted 60 minutes. Game would've lasted longer too if it wasn't for the Dizaka's other flank dying and him getting attacked from both sides. For color on how long the match lasted and slow paced it was, Dizaka made his suggestion on the forum that walls should be limited in number as he was simultaneously spamming them faster than I could destroy his city.

Increase unit speed--it will make the archers distance adv smaller and make it less likely that projectiles will hit. Skirms last alpha couldn't advance on fully massed archers, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Here again the problem is that many of these were not problems before. I will make posts in the other space (although, as I have previously pointed out, the one instance in which I did this several players, including myself, all posted saying the change was a bad idea yet the devs moved forward with the change anyways). An overarching theme here is that many players feel that a large portion of the dev team doesn't listen to players' concerns and feedback and the replies from many devs on this forum only reinforce that feeling. But I will try your way one last time.

Come on. My point is that it has been read and it has been dismissed (actively and/or passively) by devs on the forums. Maybe I and others didn't go through the proper medium, but why would we if we just get told we're wrong by every dev that is on the forum? Devs can't say we need feedback from players and then say that the feedback is substantively wrong when they get the input. Just like devs can't say we need feedback from players and then say feedback is procedurally wrong and doesn't count because it isn't written in the right place.

I've never said you're the problem, badosu, because I do not think it. As for civ differentiation, it used to exist. Now not so much. This is part of why this alpha feels so frustrating--it feels like a step back in many respects. Another major problem is that this alpha works well for 1v1s but can become completely miserable in long drawn out team games. This particularly true with my two other major complaints (turtle is way too strong and unit production times need to be sped up). These complaints I have been repeated many times over on the forum but never seem to be addressed beyond being dismissed. I hope that these issues are resolved sooner than later.

Read my post history. I've made many of my complaints known (primarily civs lack differentiation, turtle is way way too strong, and unit production is way way too slow). I have seen several of these complaints repeated in one form of another multiple times too (e.g. Dakara in this thread saying he wants more HP because fights are way too fast, which is a function of both turtle being too strong and unit production being too slow; breakfast in this thread saying that TGs are stalemates, which is a function of turtle being too strong as well as not being able to produce enough units to sustain fight, again slow unit production; many posters in other threads saying all the civs feel the same now). All of these complaints were basically brushed off or labeled wrong. Most of all many people have said the game is no longer as much fun because of the above reasons. We have tried making our complaints known and in many instances provided specific and actionable solutions.

See the responses below from devs (just from this short 3 page thread). Not trying to call anyone out but I don't see how the problem at this point is players not communicating their grievances. Also, compare these response to where many players have made very specific complaints with very specific suggestions for improvement (in this thread and others), which were either totally unaddressed or just labeled "wrong." Complaints exist. How are these being constructively addressed?

This is honestly the best take I have seen throughout all the debate. That may have been a problem in the past. But it clearly isn't a problem now. And if you read all the compliant threads on the most constant theme are players, many of whom have been around for a long time, making complaints or constructive criticisms to which the devs basically say shove it--you are wrong or it is too early to conclude that. There are obviously some large, unaddressed complaints out there. And with each day more players that I talk to seem to enjoy the game less and less. Some have all but disappeared. It would be wise to address these concerns or at the very least actually engage them. Yes, people are playing a24 (myself included) but has anyone actually asked the players that are online day in and day out what they think of the alpha compared to previous iterations? This is honestly the best take I have seen throughout all the debate. That may have been a problem in the past. But it clearly isn't a problem now. And if you read all the compliant threads on the most constant theme are players, many of whom have been around for a long time, making complaints or constructive criticisms to which the devs basically say shove it--you are wrong or it is too early to conclude that. There are obviously some large, unaddressed complaints out there. And with each day more players that I talk to seem to enjoy the game less and less. Some have all but disappeared. It would be wise to address these concerns or at the very least actually engage them. Yes, people are playing a24 (myself included) but has anyone actually asked the players that are online day in and day out what they think of the alpha compared to previous iterations?

When I try to use the mute function it gives me errors.

There seems to be another bug where units get stuck on the corner of buildings that requires me to micro around it. Seems like this could be the problem here too. But the corner building issue never seems to fix itself on its own.

I get that people don't want their heros to die. But the onus should be on that player to properly micro or place their hero behind the lines in stand ground instead of on the attacking player who is trying to kill the hero. And in the grand scheme of things, losing 1 hero is much less dangerous than losing an entire army. Healers could also have reduced HP if they actually cause armies to chance in a way that causes armies to die while following. Their health could be something like women, which die quickly before a chasing army can get destroyed. But I agree changing the run/walk feature makes sense regardless.

Then other civs should be improved and given bonuses that are actually helpful instead of something like walls that no one uses. The ptol and celts bonuses themselves weren't OP as much as other civs just didn't have useful bonuses. Also, celts and ptol were used a lot bc they of their unit composition (e.g. slingers and camels) bc those units were seen as OP as easiest to mass with celts/ptol. Those units should no longer be seen as OP and thus those civs should no longer be the only civs used.

I had forgotten about that, but yes I've noticed some units not retreating. I don't know if it is the same thing or if they were hit during their retreat which caused them to break command. Same with units walking off to attack when near the border, but I think those occurrences were the result of the known issue where towers shooting arrows outside their range

I haven't seen anyone abuse it this alpha. With that said, I see little point to having it for fighting units, so I would limit it to only women/healers (units that aren't meant to ever fight and also die quickly) or eliminate it all together

It has happened when I had default formations on and off. I randomly get idle units now when I never did before.

This happens. Units seems to randomly not listen. It seems to happen with shift commands for me.

Not really. I've never seen anyone dance effectively with non-hero infantry--they die too fast. So even when it does occur, it is a problem for 1s instead of 1m like it can be with hero. Anyways, my point is that limiting the change to only heros will eliminate 95% of dancing without introducing any other unintended problems. And a second focus on cav would eliminate most of the remaining 5% of problems if it is deemed necessary. And, good to hear about other changes that make it irrelevant

Something is different now. I often have units that get very far away from storehouses when I never did in a23. Like the reference to the 2nd patch of chickens not getting auto-hunted in this alpha, something has clearly been changed. This is a problem for all maps because it will slow your economy considerably if a chunk of your workers have to walk 3x as far as intended. And, building extra storehouses isn't a very good solution because that is very expensive early on.

A relatively straight forward fix could be to only slow rotations on the units where dance is abusive (e.g. slow rotations for heros and maybe for cav). Most players that dance don't do so with regular inf and those that they fail. So why make whole rotation system slow to fix a problem that only applies to 1 type of unit?