Sundiata
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Posts posted by Sundiata
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@wackyserious I'm really loving the work! Great job! Large oval shields like that, would have had a pole running down the middle of it, for stability purposes, so the central spine really isn't that bad..
But why the zebra hide? I've never seen any kind of reference for Kushites doing anything with zebras whatsoever... It looks more like a stereotype. Zebras never inhabited that part of Sudan, only the southern tip of South Sudan, south of the marshes, called the Sud, South of Kushite control.
The cowhide is 100% perfect! The cowhide shield is what most base level infantry would have used, and should be the standard shield.
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57 minutes ago, LordGood said:
The Egyptians everyone wanted but we couldn't deliver lol. I would like to push these guys for vanilla, they're too close and the broader 0 A.D. audience would love this.
You're definitely not the only one thinking this... They're very relevant, add a nice cultural balance, and look absolutely gorgeous.
Good luck with Musawwarat, by the way!
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"and it still rivals the temple of edfu lol"
Actually: temple of Amun at Napata became over 150 meters long. Temple of Edfu was 137 meters long... It did actually rival Edfu
Clerestory windows eh? I'm not opposed...
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Ooooh..... Nice!
Yeah, definitely, only a large first pylon entrance, leading to an inner courtyard, and a second pylon entrance, leading to holy of holies, like almost all of the Amun temples.
The one at Napata with 4 pylon gates is a unique variation, because it was the main temple to Amun. Only need to use the front part as reference, the back part of it are just some unnecessary additions...
Here's the one from Kawa:
Spoiler
In response to your (fantastic) model, I'd suggest that the elevated roof on that back part is replaced by a (narrow) opening in the roof, reaching almost halfway the back.
Spoiler
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@LordGood, as always, wow!
"my least favorite building to model" ...doesn't seem to have affected the quality of the model...
I'm shocked at the amount of things that got done the past 48 hours... Really impressive guys!!!
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The Kingdom of Kush:
A kingdom of silver horse trappings
Boston Museum of Fine Arts collection
In Meroitic Kush, horses were important, and nothing attests to that more than the silver horse-equipment, used by it's rulers. Ornately decorated silver and bronze plaques, carved with images of lions, rulers, gods and other symbols like the Ankh, were sewn to leather bands, running across the length of the horse, sometimes hinted at in the various graffito of horse-men. They would have looked magnificent...
SpoilerBronze, interlocking plaques, and buckle, part of elaborate horse trappings.
The rest is all silver:
Bounding lions, remarkably similar to an example I shared earlier
A repost of the earlier set I shared, to show that they are in fact belonging to unique sets
And more silver plaques:
"Bronze bells with representations of bound enemies accompanied the gilded silver plaques on the horse trappings"
Magnificent silver Lion heads:
I know this might be confusing.. How in the world were these silver plaques part of horse trappings? Luckily for us, we have completely intact, less ornate, post Meroitic examples to compare it with. From the graves of Ballana, lower Nubia, Nobatian royals continued many of the traditions started by their Meroitic predecessors, including the use of elaborate silver horse trapping. This will be one of the references for Meroitic cavalry:
(repost) The Horses of Ballana, from the Nubian museum in Aswan:
And the source: http://www.mfa.org/search?search_api_views_fulltext=MEROITIC+silver+horse
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@wowgetoffyourcellphone "Looks like Egyptian-style quilted corselets are a no-go,", Kushite style quilted cotton corselets should definitely be used for ranking Meroitic cavalry and infantry. Just not for Beja (Blemmye) mercenary units.
@wackyserious very nice, just scale down the leopard skin texture because it's too big like that, and replace the giraffe skin with cow-hide, like the Medjay:
SpoilerCow-hide shield texture should be the basic shield texture for Nubian infantry, before ranking to leopard skin.
If you look well, four of the Nubian, oval, cow-hide shields can be seen here on a painted chest from Tutankhamen's tomb. The more elaborate Egyptian shield design can be used for the Napatan temple-guard (axemen)
I also noticed you corrected the color of their heads, nice...
Also try to avoid the zebra skin you used in some the earlier versions. Thanks!
@Lion.Kanzen for the moment, I don't think we need shield symbols..
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@wackyserious Yeah, needs to be oval or round, not pointy like that. Their textures are all a bit too fantastical for my taste. I prefer to stick to what we know: elephant-, rhino-, hippo- or ox-hide or wicker- round-shields or oval shields.
New Kingdom Egyptian inspiration is also good (wooden shields covered in animal hide: cow or leopard), for infantry.
For cavalry, I'd advice round-shields though, like the shield carried by this old-school Beja warrior:
SpoilerThis hairstyle and attire is the exact reference for Beja (Blemmeye) camel-mercs, by the way. .
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@LordGood This is about how far I got with market references, it's mostly guess work though, nothing I know of survived the times... I think it were just large open markets in the open spaces between the large structures of the city centers, not necessarily dedicated buildings, but smallish, semi-perishable setups:
w surv
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Those primitive looking, painted units should only be used for Nuba mercenaries. Meroitic urban population, which was very large ( 25 cities and towns between Maharaqqa and Napata alone, Northern half of Kush), would not have appeared like this...
The Thyreos shield featured in one of the pics, is very plausible, for at least some individual soldiers returning from Ptolemaic Egypt, or captured from Galatian mercs used by the Ptolies, but the exact reference eludes me, so it should be used sparingly, if at all.
I'm not familiar with the reference behind the shield carried by those "Kulus Bomani"
Those irregularly shaped hide-shields of the "Mistophoroi Kushitoi" are based entirely on Tuareg hide shields from West-Africa, which is wrong. Hide shields for Kushites should be oval-shaped, made of oxhide or alternatively wicker, (or both).
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"the cobra piece on the forehead" is only for royals... Sign of divine rulership... That's Taharqa, by the way...
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Meroitic Sandals (for elites)
Spoiler
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- Hero 1: Arakamani: (Hellenisation) - techs research faster
- Hero 2 Amanirenas: (Diplomat/warrior queen) - favourable outcomes in diplomatic affairs/soldiers fight harder (can recruit lions?)
- Hero 3 Nastasen: (Naval superiority) - Boats gain increased attack and defence
I'd refrain from using the word Bushman for the Nuba, as that term is most closely associated with "the Bushmen of the Kalahari" , which is the other side of Africa.
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Only problem I see for now is that their heads are a different color from their bodies :/
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If the Nuba mercs make the cut, they're the ones that should get some body paint. Painted half white (with something powdery looking), or half reddish, or half white, and half reddish. They're also the ones that could have a wider variety of animal cloths. perhaps, skirmish, perhaps with knotted clubs.
Is wackyserious the lordgood of units?
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Yeah, I think elephants will be the main siege weapon for Kushites.. Not really a champion, just dressed to impress, but not all-round fantastic...
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Elephants are quite prestigious. Relatively weak, but prestigious
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I think axe and swords are both iconic weapons for the Kushites. Axe as armour piercing shock troop, strong against swordsmen, weak against spear. Swordsmen are strong against spear, weak against axe. Plus Kush is the earliest known Sub-Saharan civilisation to use swords. The first of a long line. Axes are too common to ignore.
"I suggest the Axeman be the "Temple Guard" for the Temple of Amun." sounds nice...
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Strabo: "and as weapons some had only axes, others pikes, and others swords"
In one of the reliefs of Amanishakheto, she is actually seen using a (shortened, for artistic purposes I presume) sarissa, to execute prisoners.
They were introduced to "modern" pike formations after facing Greek hoplites for the first time in 592 BC, during Psamtik II's invasion of Nubia.
From the early third century BC Greek was thought in Meroe, and under Arakamani some Hellenisation occurred, due to increased contact with Ptolemaic Egypt, and new military technologies were among the novelties, brought back by mercenaries who had served in Egypt, and Greek traders and adventurers serving at the Meroitic court.
There's also that that graffiti from Musawwarat. And phalanx formations have been used in the Nile Valley since at least the New Kingdom.
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Ideally, I think there should be 2 different embassies, one Nuba embassy, to recruit Nuba tribesmen, and one Blemmye embassy, to recruit those camel warriors. Then the roster would be complete, offering both of best worlds: a sophisticated urban elite, and primitive looking levies from the wild hinterlands of Kush, and the Beja camels.
I don't know if this is too much...
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The Kingdom of Kush
Preliminary unit roster:
The following list represents the essential units I have in mind for the Kushites, more could be added, but I believe these units are historical enough, and represent a well rounded roster, lacking only in siege equipment, which is somewhat mitigated by the war-elephant:
- Nubian Archer
- Nubian Spearman
- Meroitic Pikeman
- Meroitic Axeman
- Meroitic Swordsman
- Meroitic spear-cavalry
- Meroitic Noble Archer (champion unit)
- Meroitic Noble Cavalry Lancer (champion unit)
- Blemmye Mercenary Camel Lancer
- Blemmye Mercenary Camel Archer
- Kushite Light War-Elephant
Thoughts and ideas?
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The lightest one you just shared. Representing Southern Egyptian & Northern Sudanese (modern Nubians). The more southern Meroites would have been very, very dark (like modern nuba people).
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@wackyserious common soldiers would have predominantly worn white or colored loincloths, just the lion and leopard pelt for higher ranked soldiers. Other animal-hides would be too archaic for this period.
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Maybe the second, larger temple of Amun should just become available in city phase?
The Kingdom of Kush: A proper introduction [Illustrated]
in Official tasks
Posted · Edited by Sundiata
It's regrettable the Chinese didn't make it through, but there were arguable reasons, in terms of historical connectivity to the existing civs. Adding minicivs or full blown civs like Xiognu & Scythians connects them.
The same line of argument doesn't apply to the Kushites. They had at least three wars, against three civs already in the game! They fought Persians, Ptolemies and Romans. In addition, Greek and Galatian mercenaries fought against Kushites in the deserts of Sudan, and Kushite mercenaries fought as far as the Greek mainland during the Persian invasion of Greece.
They also fought wars against the Neo-Assyrian Empire and Saite Dynasty Egypt. Alexander the Great even received an embassy from Kush.
None of the other civilisations that were proposed are comparable to Kushites (architecture, units, political coherence, relevance, level of sophistication, gameplay...). The others were all lacking in one department or another. Kush is simply the last remaining powerhouse from classical antiquity that hasn't been added... "The Forgotten Kingdom".
"no new factions will be added for 0 A.D. part 1" (sounds oddly dogmatic and irrational when the faction in question will be finished in a matter months)
Let me quote the late Ken Wood when he said: "The fate of 0 A.D. is in the hands, of those who have vision and perseverance"
I believe adding the Kushites demonstrates both vision and perseverance.