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Posts posted by Sundiata
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29 minutes ago, LordGood said:
It was deemed too hacky to be of practical use
The subterranean slow bolt shooter thing didn't work out? Any plans to make it less hacky? Twas pretty cool... And mind you, I was originally skeptical towards sapping techniques in RTS-games...
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22 minutes ago, (-_-) said:
I think it wasn't decided upon whether civilizations used it. But rather whether they use alternative means, like an elephant. In which case, that means was given to a civilization instead of a ram. IMO, such civs could be given weaker rams instead of no ram (who wouldn't know how to hit a wall with a log?). No 100 pierce armor if the ram is just a log.
Ah, indeed. As it's been brought up before more than once though, including in this thread, elephants weren't primarily used for sieging, although they could definitely take down simple structures and ram gates. Elephants were more of a risky elite battlefront unit, used to scare the living daylights of anyone on the other side. Their ability to take down structures should be a nice extra, but not their main feature. That task belongs to proper siege equipment. Wasn't @LordGood working on a tunneling mechanic to undermine walls? That's another siege-tactic that was pretty universally used (and effective), and can help mitigate the lack in other siege-equipment for some civs.
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I've mentioned it before, but I think every civilization needs a battering ram as the standard close range siege-equipment. It's not some kind of technological marvel that only the brightest thinkers of the ancient world could figure out. It's just a glorified log to smash down a door... (see the Xiongnu ram)
As with many civ-specific details in this game, the fact that some civs have rams and others don't doesn't seem to be based on anything tangible/not based in history. It's rather a cheap way of differentiating civs. The reason this annoys me, like starting walls for the Iberians or free houses for the Ptolemies, is that they not only seem to be poorly thought out, but actual historical nuances between the civs that make sense are continually shunned for "balance" concerns.
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0AD needs a civilian aspect with villagers forming the backbone of the economy. It's really that simple...
Citizen soldier concept should remain, but they should have bonuses for building military structures, and penalties for gathering resources, so that villager units are the logical go-to for all economic activities, citizen soldiers only being used for eco during an emergency/expansion.
This means "women" will become villagers, 50/50 men/women.
As mentioned in another topic, specific female representation can be preserved through a specialized healer unit trained at the temple (female clergy). Male priests would be used to boost general attack stats instead (morale, when implemented). Generals and the likes could influence other attack stats, relating to formations or battalions.
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19 minutes ago, (-_-) said:
Just when you thought this thread couldn’t get anymore offtopic..
Thanks! I try...
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11 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:
They ares discussing about Norway and African farming is important by the game play accuracy.
Don't forget hair, 19th century West-African military culture, paganism, the phenotypes of South Africa and AOM.
If there's anything you feel like sharing about yourself, or some other cool thing you have in mind, I'd say go for it!
(as long as we only go off-topic in one dead thread at a time, I think it should be ok
).
Check out this tiny Alaskan Tyrannosaurid, called the Nanuqsaurus (A) (for comparison, B is Tyrannosaurus Rex):
Isn't it cute? Kind of like a morbidly obese Deinonychus without the the murderous claw. The Flintstones' equivalent of an overweight Rottweiler. "Who's a good boy? Who's a good boooy? Who's a good b-... AAARGH, IT JUST ATE MY ARM! DAMMIT"
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1 hour ago, (-_-) said:Quote
Emanuel Karlsten, a reporter for Sweden’s Breakit news site, spoke with Voss, a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) and the EU’s copyright rapporteur, after the vote. Karlsten asked about a last-minute amendment that will bar the filming of sports events. The MEP replied in a recorded conversation, “This was kind of mistake I think by the JURI committee. Someone amended this. No one had been aware of this.”
European Parliament press officer John Schranz at that point broke in to explain that he was aware of the provision in question, calling it “amendment 76.” Schranz said that the amendment doesn’t bar individuals from filming sporting events. Rather, “the main target” is online betting companies enticing viewers to their sites with video that they have no right to film. He objected to the fact that the “Greens and others” interpret the provision as having a much wider application.
But the MEP Voss admitted, “I didn’t know that this was in the proposal so far, so of course I have to deal with it now. I do not consider that the commission and council will have this inside the proposal.” Voss added that “because of the time pressure” and general focus on other, more notable aspects of the law, it’s possible that the measure was insufficiently scrutinized.
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Karlsten notes that MEPs complained at a press conference after the vote yesterday that Facebook and Google tried to manipulate their votes with email campaigns, ignoring the fact that messages were also sent by concerned individuals. “They do not believe people in Europe really are worried about what this directive will bring,” the Swedish reporter contends.
“I was actually flabbergasted by my time in the parliament. It exceeded my worst fears about the competence of the MEPs handling of this directive.”
Jesus Christ...
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@Genava55, lol, I just watched that one a few hours ago myself... Nice video's...
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Civil disobedience...
I couldn't care less what Paul Mcarthney and his 1.2 BILLION dollars net worth thinks about his "lost" revenue or copyright laws. Greedy dirtbag... I never even bothered downloading his mediocre music... And to do it under the guise of protecting the little guys... Ugh, makes me so sick... The little guys will not benefit from this AT ALL... Resist!
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3 hours ago, Astrid said:
Yes it does suck how crime rose over the past 5 years,and what my little Norway is turning into. When I was a little girl I would go to Oslo with my grandfather to get icecream,and walk around to see the beautiful history of Norway.You can't even walk around Oslo at night because there are so many evil people that are angry,bitter and on drugs.
It's all over the world, it seems. Last year I was back in Belgium (Antwerp) for 5 months, working in a grocery store, and I got held up at gunpoint! A second guy was threatening a little 50+ year old lady co-worker with a knife... They were some nervous little idiots so nobody complied and then some drunks from a nearby cafe who had seen it all happen from a distance rushed them. They got away, but without any cash... Of course the shop lost several thousand Euro in revenue while it was closed... Idiots... It was the 11th armed robbery in 9 years or so... Antwerp seems to be turning into a little ghetto... In Ghana too, crime is on the rise. They just broke into my neighbours' home a few days ago... Hunger will jump any wall... As a species, we, the human race have been grossly mismanaging this planet and its resources for too long, and we're slowly but surely paying the price. We have money for war, but no money to feed the poor. Let alone create a world where everyone can lead a meaningful life. Supposedly our living standards have never been higher, but desperation is rising in every corner of the globe. Wonder where it will all go. I guess I'll just be playin 0AD as the world slowly burns
2 hours ago, Rolf Dew said:Yeah the Zulus get too much attention compared to the real african empires in Africa's past
. Yeah people can get kind of stupid when it comes to seeing people that are different from them. Thanks for the pictures, it is really interesting!
One of the reasons that I like the Wildfire games community so much. People are just dedicated to creating the best game they can make. Where you're from, what god you pray to (or not), what you look like, what your political views are, are all irrelevant. People don't seem to care (not that there isn't room to explore each others worlds, obviously). Which is beautiful in its own way. I don't even know for sure who's male or female... Doesn't matter. What you can offer to improve the game is what matters. People here also have a genuine interest in history, which is really nice! A healthy level of critical thinking and good manners are also pleasant. There's almost no profanity here either, which is a welcome relief on the internet.
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On 9/9/2018 at 9:00 PM, Rolf Dew said:
Nice hair, isn't it heavy?
Thanks, and nope, I never had issues with weight... It's a lot heavier in water, so I'll never be an olympic swimmer, but even that never held me back from recreational swimming (still a faster swimmer than most
). That said, I've known people who suffered from heavy locks and ended up cutting them because of it... It depends on your type of hair, I guess.
On 9/9/2018 at 9:00 PM, Rolf Dew said:@Sundiata those pictures are very interesting, seems like they were very good fighters from what you told me. The musket traditions are very interesting too, the black people in South Africa rarely used muskets in combat, so it very interesting too see.
Uhu... The 5 Anglo-Ashanti Wars are of a different caliber... Ashantis regularly fielded armies of more than 10.000 fighters, mostly equipped with muskets. The British really struggled tremendously... Even the comparatively small Akuapem state was able to retain it's independence from the Ashanti, and during the Ga-Fanti War, even captured a British and a Dutch fortress, as well as Accra itself (the modern capital of Ghana). Those Akuapem dreams of grandeur only lasted a few years, but hey, it's something right?
In North, West and East Africa the use of guns wasn't uncommon from the 18th century onwards. Other military mights of the West African region primarily included the Oyo Empire and the Kingdom of Benin, from Nigeria and the Kingdom of Dahomey (Togo). There were many others, but most crumbled from the inside out, due to European political and economic manoeuvring even before the final military push. The Ashanti were the most "intact" state to enter into all out war with European powers. In other places of Africa, the Mahdist armies of Sudan, the Dervish armies of Somalia, the Abyssinian armies of Ethiopia and the Kingdom of Kongo (Congo/Angola) were particularly virulent in their resistance to European colonization.
Most people have heard of the Zulu, and the famous battle of Isandlwana, popularized by the movie Zulu Dawn, but know next to nothing of the other parts of Africa. Cetshwayo definitely gave the British a run for their money, so respects due, but they were small fish compared to the more potent powers of West and East Africa. The Zulu have become one of the archetypes of the "noble savage", and have been "used" to overshadow the much more impressive histories of the continent. Times are changing, but I'm still waiting for a movie featuring the Battle of Nsamankow, or the Battle of Katamanso, or the the Battle of Adwa, the battles for Kongo, the fall of Benin, the exploits of Samori Toure, the fall of Khartoum (it's been done, but bleh), etc, etc..
Anyway, some more traditional Akan warriors and stuff (maybe we can do a colonial wars mod one day, when guns are implemented):
SpoilerDenkyira warrior (former overlords of Ashanti), 17th century
(Wikipedia claims that the Ashanti invented the Akrafena (sword), but this painting by Albert Eckhout from 1641, painted before the Ashanti state was even established, proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is hogwash...)
A previous King of Akuapem:
Battle of Katamanso, 1826. Those hills in the background are my home
. Ashanti expansion into the coast was stopped here by a local coalition of tribes including Akuepem, Akyim and Ga-Adangbe, with help from the British (alliances switched quickly in those days), who employed rockets for the first time in Africa. My auntie owns a British sabre that was found by some farmers on the old battleground!
Guns for gold:
Here you can clearly see that guns weren't the main issue for Ashanti, but the introduction of the Maxim gun, in particular, combined with the British use of African levies from their Nigerian colony, heavily outnumbering the actual British forces.
Traditional Akan priests. The golden pectoral disk is known as the Akrafokonmu, or soul washers disc:
Denkyira chief wearing the batakari, a battle dress with magical pendants (supposedly bulletproof, although I wouldn't try it...). This would be worn by generals.
The Asantehene, king of Ashanti, seated next the Golden Stool, the literal soul of tha Ashanti nation, called down from the sky by Okomfo Anokye (originally from Akuapem
) at Kumasi, with the founding of the Ashanti state.
Michael
Muhammad Ali with the Asantehene:
Just to clarify, this is all traditional stuff, and Ghana's armed forces today look a little different:
Traditional Akan architecture is also quite interesting and unique. It's essentially extinct today, and a only a handful of traditional temples remain
SpoilerAkan temple:
Ancient Kumasi before the British:
The British smashing everything in sight:
Ancient Kumasi after the British...
The Aban, or the stone palace in Kumasi. You'd be forgiving for thinking Europeans built it, but it was actually built by Fante masons, accustomed to building European structures on the coast:
On 9/9/2018 at 11:38 PM, Astrid said:Your hair is the communication to the gods.
Lol, indeed, my spiritual antennae
15 hours ago, Astrid said:I get so many looks from good to bad,and it's funny how many women want to touch my hair and guys want to brush it. I had a man ask to brush my hair for many krones lol He wanted me to come over to his flat and have my hair brushed by him lol He wasn't a creep or strange he was just fascinated by the beauty of my hair. After this incident I started to wear my hair up in public so I can hide it from strangers lol I get nothing done when I go to KIWI for food, and instead I am answering questions about my hair,and I put an end to the questions.
People are so weird... I've had people grab my hair, and even grabbing my beard?! What the H e l l right? Takes some serious self control on my part not to escalate the situation, but I've had to tell people off quite forcefully... Some people think it's public property or something... I used to wear a turban sometimes, but I'm too lazy to wrap my hair everyday... And then I get even more stares... The hair is definitely not for show, so it stresses me out when people can't focus on anything but your hair, so I prefer to cover it.
Turbans for the win!
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1 hour ago, macemen said:
this would create intrinsic imbalances in the game.
Only when choosing to mix epochs...
6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:0 A.D. Epochs
Looove it!
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16 hours ago, Astrid said:
Plus my long hair is perfect for reenacting but rule #1 do not slip chain mail over your body fast with your hair down lol
3 hours ago, Rolf Dew said:Nice, so you must look like a real valkryie!
Or an actual Viking Shield Maiden
!!! What do you think of the History Chanel show Vikings?
16 hours ago, Astrid said:Yes I been growing my hair since I was born {mum never cut my hair other than trims as she has long hairs herself,and my 2 sisters also},and now at age 22 my hair is down to my lower ankles when it hits my toes that's when it gets trimmed.
Wow, I thought my hair was long... The longest locks are reaching my knees now... I always said I would trim it when they reach my butt, but I can't bring myself to put scissors to them. It feels so wrong. They do sometimes naturally break off halfway down when they get too long, so I guess it's sorting itself out, lol...
3 hours ago, Rolf Dew said:Nice, you have dreadlocks! Yes genes are very interesting! Where is your dad from if I may ask?
Uhu, haven't cut my hair since age 13 (15 years).
My dad is from Ghana, where I'm living now. He's actually still in Belgium, lol, but he comes back to Ghana every other year or so. We're Akuapem, one of the smaller Akan tribes (including Fantes, Akwamus, Akyims, Denkyera, etc, with the Ashanti being the most famous of all). The specific ethnicities or tribes that contributed to the modern mix of Akuapem people include primarily Guans and Akyims, but also Akwamu, Ga-Adangbe, Ewe and Ashanti (Ga-Adangbe and Ewe aren't even Akan tribes, but some of them migrated and assimilated into Akuapem over the centuries and the Guans are essentially the original pre-Akan population of the area, still speaking their own language in their own towns).
A little bit of history:
"Akuapem" means something along the lines of "A Thousand Forces" (Akuw Apem), and was originally actually a tribal confederacy of many disparate groups of people who were living in the Akuapem hills (many of them refugees from wars and slave-raiding). The "confederacy" was established to fight off slave-raiding incursions and oppression at the hands of the Akwamu, another Akan tribe with a ferocious reputation in the old days. The Akwamu (proto)-empire was utterly destroyed by the Akuapem uprising.
Akuapems had a reputation of fighting slavery, harboring many runaway slaves from the nearby coast and destroying Danish plantations at the foot of the Akuapem hills because of their harshness. So I was surprised to learn that after the defeat of the Akwamu, In turn, the captured Akwamu leadership was sold into slavery (1730's) by the Akuapem... Karma is a... Very interestingly, Europeans in the Americas often didn't comprehend where exactly their slaves were coming from, or in this case, that they weren't slaves at all, but nobles, warriors, generals and chiefs! 150 of the Akwamu "slaves" that were shipped to St. John in the Caribbean very quickly ignited one of the earliest and longest lasting slave rebellions in the history of the Americas! They took over almost the entire island for a 6 month period before being "defeated by several hundred better-armed French and Swiss troops sent from Martinique". Quite perversely, the Akwamu didn't liberate the other African slaves, and captured the islands' plantations intact... They simply took over the plantations, slaves included, intending to run them as usual...
Other Akan slaves that were taken to Jamaica also runaway and established independent communities in the interior. The British never managed to subdue them (Maroon wars) and eventually settled a treaty with them, recognising their independence. Similar story in Suriname. Very few among the maroons of Jamaica and Suriname can actually still speak Twi (Akan language)! I actually cried the first time I saw a video recording of an old Jamaican maroon speaking Twi. I was shocked! One of my uncles once travelled to Suriname and could speak Twi with some of the Maroons he met there!
Other Akan "slaves" were taken to Haiti, and their martial culture helped facilitate the Haitian revolution, the most successful of the slave-rebellions, confidently defeating the Napoleonic armies!
The Akan slaves were known as Coromantee (derived from the name of the Ghanaian slave fort of Kormantine in Koromanti), and garnered such a fierce reputation that attempts were made to pass legislation banning the import of Akan slaves:
"Edward Long, an anti-Coromantee writer, states:
Such a bill, if passed into law would have struck at very root of evil. No more Coromantins would have been brought to infest this country, but instead of their savage race, the island would have been supplied with Blacks of a more docile tractable disposition and better inclined to peace and agriculture."
Makes me a little proud, to know that our compatriots were not docile, but rather "savage" in their resistance to enslavement
My hair, and where I'm from (some cultural shots from our traditional festivals, a royal funeral and Ashanti military traditions):
SpoilerExploring the brush outside of town (Abotakyi/Mampong) with a friend... The Akuapem state was actually established here with the signing of the Abotakyi Accord of 1733
I took the following pictures myself:
The late Omanhene of Akuapem (Akuapemhene), King of Akuapem, Nana Addo Dankwa III, 2013:
Others
Old and new
Pouring libation in the rain
Funeral of the Akuapemhene (2016), at the traditional Akuapem capital, Akropong
Talking drum (they can actually talk with it!)
The Ashanti, a closely related but much larger tribe with very similar material culture had the most impressive military systems in West-Africa during the colonial wars. I recently came across a treasure throve of informations and depictions of Ashanti military traditions (pictures not taken by me). They were heavily reliant on musketry, mostly Dane Guns, but also some locally produced. These images are not reenactments, but part of a living culture (carrying original regalia). Most of these pics are from Kumasi, the capital of Ashanti:
Traditional sword bearers, carrying Akrafena (swords of the soul), each sword having it's own unique name. There are also swords of the spirits. Some of the swords were originally for battle, but with the large scale introduction of guns around the 17th century, they became more symbolic. They are used to swear oaths of allegiance, and are used as a sort of royal seal of legitimacy, carried by messengers of the Kings and chiefs. Oh, and even after the introduction of guns, sword bearers traditionally lined the back of musket formations, to cut down any coward who even thinks of running from battle, resulting in the mentality that it is better to go forward and die with honor, than backwards and die in shame.
The Asantehene, King of Ashanti, Otumfuo Nana Osei Tutu II, the most powerful traditional ruler in Ghana!
Ghana wasn't known as the Gold Coast for nothing...
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On 9/2/2018 at 8:17 PM, Astrid said:
dealing with my many meters Rapunzel hair
Ha, I also have "meters" of hair, but it's nothing like Rapunzel, lol... More like something in between Ziggy and Damian Marley
3 hours ago, Rolf Dew said:I am an english speaker, but I can speak Afrikaans and understand dutch.
I am an English and Dutch speaker. I can understand Afrikaans a little bit. It sounds like a thick accent, or a dialect of Dutch. But there are always a some mystery words making it difficult to understand the details.
3 hours ago, Rolf Dew said:Yeah most of the European originated people here have a nordic look (including the british originated people), although a fair amount of people are not nordic looking too. My dad has blue eyes, but brownish hair, my mum has brownish/blond hair and brown eyes, my sister and I both have brown eyes (we had green when we were babies though) and dark brown hair lol. Blue eyes is pretty common here, especially amongst afrikaners and british origin people. We have a fair amount of german origin people where I live and I know one or two norwegian origin people too.
My mom is actually Belgian/German/Polish, with a bit of a "Nordic", actually Germanic, look (blond hair, blue eyes). I definitely don't have that Nordic/Germanic look though, lol! My sister and her Haitian fiancée (also West African and West European ancestry) have a one year old boy, with pretty African looking features and and a soft afro, but he's relatively light-skinned, his hair is blond and he has blue eyes, like my mom! Their next kid might be as dark as Shaka Zulu, who knows. When mixed people have kids together, they can go any direction. Genes are pretty cool...
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26 minutes ago, psypherium said:
Why is it "Mauryas" and not "Mauryans"?
Because the empire is known as the Maurya Empire, or the Maurya Dynasty, founded by Chandragupta Maurya. "Mauryan" is also often used as an adjective though.
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On 9/3/2018 at 6:25 AM, Rolf Dew said:
I also live on a farm but in South Africa!
We need details! What kind of farm? Any pictures?
Maybe we should make this into a "farms around the world" topic
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On 8/30/2018 at 9:55 PM, Astrid said:
I own a farm, and it's a cheese farm here on Hardanger. This is where I work,and play OAD on my leisure time lol I love farms because they let you work for yourself,and always cheese to go around for my people. My mum and dad own an orchard,and sell cider for a living. My whole family are farmers,and that is because where I live on the fjords there is plenty of land,and resources. Speaking of fjords
How interesting! What kind of cheese? From cows? You have cattle?
Pictures of the fjords are always welcome! Maybe someday someone can make a nice specific Norse map based on your home area
I'm not much of a farmer myself, but I have a very healthy respect for it, and fantasize about my own little dream farm one day
I did grow a field of sweet peppers a while back. In the middle of the dry season, which was exceptionally harsh. That was a memorable experience... I just wanted to prove that it's possible to farm in the dry season, away from a source of water, on depleted soil, without pesticides, planting seeds directly in the field (without nursery). Lord knows it didn't make me rich, but it was fun!
I also discovered that my garden is essentially an archaeological site, lol! Preparing my field, I started stumbling across significant amounts of pottery shards, which is strange, because our land used to be a bamboo-forrest in the jungle outside of town. Nobody has lived here in living memory but us. The pottery wasn't on the surface either, but buried between 10 and 30 cm in the ground! Pottery of the type that hasn't been produced or used here for a very long time. I always suspected there were some ancestors here on account of iron slag spread across the back of our garden. I actually found remains of ceramic pipes coated in molten rock with a metallic shine (part of the bellows?), and finally, at a depth of more than 30 cm I found a heavily corroded iron blade. Also found a corroded iron axe-head. Some of the iron slag actually has square marks (from tongs used to move the hot slag out of the way?).
SpoilerPreparing the field, removing unholy amounts of rocks/boulders, which I used to create a low retaining wall, to level the land (rains had washed away the top soil). Iron slag and pottery shards can be seen in the lower corner
My babies
Growing
A proud daddy
A big boy
Time for a photoshoot
They were soooo sweet... Honestly some of the sweetest paprikas I've ever eaten. You could eat them like apples!
I ended up digging up well over a hundred pottery shards from a large number of different vessels, all from the field
Iron blade, below a modern machete. The shape of the blade suggests it may have been a broken off akrafena (a traditional Akan sword)...
Iron axe-head/wedge
Our garden is full of all kinds of foods including: orange, lime, passionfruit, cocoyam, oil palm, coconut, breadnut , ackee, avocado, papaya, mango (but mangoes only bear fruit when it's really dry for a long time, strangely). We also have a cashew tree, but it doesn't bear fruit on account of the humidity during the rainy season. Some plantains are also taking a mighty long time to bear fruit. There's also some other stuff that doesn't have English names I'm aware of, including a small red berry that makes literally everything taste sweet! You can drink lime-juice straight without squinting after eating that berry! And the occasional pineapple (so sweet!):
Oh, and goats! I keep some West African pygmy goats. Just as a hobby...
My old buck, back in his prime (he's almost 10 years old now):
Paradise, right? Well, paradise has snakes in the kitchen!
And that's just a lil' guy... We have cobras, including the spitting types, Gaboon vipers, green mambas, pythons and a whole bunch of other unfriendly creepers... Usually we all just mind our own business, but if they get into the house, I turn into the terminator!
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5 hours ago, Nescio said:
- locating starting mines and quarries at a greater distance from the centre
- separating the metal mines from the stone quarries, so one could spawn e.g. to the east of the centre, the other to the north-west, instead of both directly adjacent to each other
- removing the hard-coded Iberian walls
Are three great improvements I've been hoping for for quite some time.
We agree
5 hours ago, Nescio said:if you want more realism, people should be able to designate areas as farmland, rather than having fixed field structures.
Well, yeah, ideally, I'd loooove that... But I don't know how feasible it is from a coding/art point of view...
5 hours ago, Nescio said:As for the farms, I think 2:1 rectancles are just as unnatural as 1:1 squares or any other arbitrary shape and size;
A lot of fields have "arbitrary" shapes (hugging the curves of the land), sure, but even those are mostly longer on one side. My point is, if you're ploughing the land, you're gonna make a long field, not a square one. Second point is that if rectangular is supposedly as arbitrary as square, then why did we end up with square? There is this other game called Age of Empires and a bunch of people think 0AD a clone of it (it isn't, I know). If the shape is arbitrary anyway, isn't it a no-brainer to choose the shape that is different from that other RTS-heavyweight everyone compares us to? You know, just to not rub it in how similar they look on the surface?
5 hours ago, Nescio said:Furthermore, I would recommend merging the market into the centre. In Antiquity the agora/forum/marketplace/central square was the centre simultaneously of politics and litigation, as well as of commercial and social life; besides, many towns grew out of trading posts. Making 0 A.D.'s centre function as a market would increase realism and improve gameplay:
Euhm.. Personally I'm not a fan of removing structures from an already limited list, at all.. Also, what happens to all the techs? They also go to the CC? Training traders at the CC? Removing the market places makes for an even staler economic gameplay... Also, what you're saying definitely doesn't apply universally, and even where it does, there were still "regular" marketplaces in smaller towns. Also, because commerce was conducted near the administrative centers, doesn't mean that the marketplace and the administrative buildings were literally synonymous with each-other. Some of 0AD's market places (like those of the Kushites) don't really represent a single structure, but a gathering of traders, which is what a market essentially is. A place where traders gather, and they gather at many other places than agoras.
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Also, farms should really be rectangular, like the great majority of farmlands in the real world. Like 50% larger on one side. They'd look a lot more natural, and the increased size will make them a little awkward to place in the middle of town.
About the shape of the field: when ploughing a field, you ideally want to plough as long as you can in one direction. Ploughing is incredibly hard (even when using draft animals), and "an object in motion tends to remain in motion along a straight line unless acted upon by an external force", which means every turn requires a lot of energy, which in turn means that ploughing a longer, rectangular field is a lot less intensive than ploughing a square field of the same surface area, which would require a lot more turns.
Third MAJOR advantage of rectangular field, is that it's a quick, easy and obvious visual distinguishing feature from Age of Empires' square fields. The square fields thing is such a weird yet iconic AoE -thing that it contributes to the image of 0AD being an AoE clone. This small visual distinction can have a big subconscious influence on how the game is perceived (more independent form AoE, not scared to do things differently/more realistic/better).
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1 hour ago, ValihrAnt said:
Will end up in players building fields at the edge of the map and building house walls around them to protect women during raids.
And because the fields will have most of the houses around them players will also make their market there, meaning that the market ends up in the middle of farmlands which are far away from the CC and have only one entrance as far away from the enemy as possible.
There can be a no-build zone right on the edge of the map, just wide enough to let units and siege pass. Then building a wall (or a wall of houses) won't be able to hug the edge. You'd have to build all the way around. Secondly, houses should be really weak, so house-walling isn't effective, and raiding can more effectively include destroying enemy houses to suppress their pop-cap. Thirdly, building a marketplace close to farmlands and a bunch of houses is still far more logical than building markets in the middle of nowhere...
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46 minutes ago, Palaiogos said:
I still don’t understand why people don’t like the farms around CC. It has been a stable for basically every RTS game.
Have you ever been to a farm? Or have you ever been to the center of any town or city anywhere in the world? lol, sorry...
I just really hope that 0AD can breath new life into the RTS genre by getting rid of those stale 90's conventions, instead of dogmatically adhering to them. It's time for some new and revamped formulas. Not the same old, same old logical fallacies. 0AD can and should be much more than just glorified nostalgia (I know it already is, but we can do better, even with minor changes here and there).
Triggers me every time...
Farms belong on the outskirts while markets belong in the center! How does this not upset you? lol...
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I like the direction of this discussion
1 hour ago, (-_-) said:Perhaps even Iberian walls could be an option too.
Or discarded completely? It would be nice if factions are diversified by historical merit, instead of this arbitrary stuff like Iberian starting walls or free houses for Ptolemies, which is very unhistorical, weird and feels like a cheap attempt at "diversifying". Ptolemies could have all sorts of bonuses ranging from higher pop-cap, higher income from mines, higher agricultural output, higher income from trade, more specific mercenaries, etc, all historically based. But free houses that take longer to build? Nah.. Cheap houses that take less time to build, maybe... Same for Iberians... just give them cheaper walls if you must, but I don't even really see the logic in that. Iberians could have higher income from loot, and coral benefits, on account of the cattle rustling and raiding (hoping that cattle becomes a thing in the near future).
Anyway, yes to moving mines further
It has bugged me for years as it also messes with your town planning (who would allow mining in the town center anyway?). It's so claustrophobic..
Turtling should be viable, but it can also be simultaneously nerfed by placing resources further away, and preventing farming in the immediate vicinity of the CC. This would allow you to effectively wall a built up area, but if you're being sieged, you'd eventually "starve" because you don't have access to resources. Right now you can farm while under attack as if nothing's going on and the starting resources usually last long enough to have a mini-trade route set up within you're walled area. Which is silly. Stronger, more expensive walls seems to be the way to go. They become more useful (with gates being the weak spots), but become less viable to spamming because of increased cost.
Another thing I've been meaning to bring up in regard to trade and how the current mechanics could be improved: Currently markets generate the highest revenue if you place them furthest appart. Ok, seems reasonable, right? Not really... It results in people placing markets on the edge of their territory, away from their settlement. So now we have a situation, were people are farming in the town center, and building markets in the middle of nowhere. It should be the other way around. How? Simple:
1) A hard exclusion zone around the CC, which forces farms towards the outskirts of your territory
2) Profitability of markets is determined by 2 factors: relative distance to each other (like now) AND, how many houses are within it's radius. 1 - 10 houses represent respectively 10 - 100% market profitability. So the amount of resources a trader caries is determined by the market they're coming from (how many people "live there" and how far away is it)
Bonus side-effect: people actually build up relatively concentrated satellite settlements (for increased income) with natural looking farmlands on their outskirt, as opposed to the classically awkward low density RTS-sprawl all over the map.
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@Nescio, I think you're probably right about all that, but in terms of modern parallels the Pax Americana is definitely a thing, and is more often than not viewed with extreme cynicism (American Imperialism), and is related to Neo-colonialsm, which is in itself a very real thing as well, with most African resources remaining very much in the possession of foreign actors (corporations) from Britain/France/USA/China, and to a lesser extent Russia/India/Gulf countries/Iran/Turkey/Italy/Germany/Brazil, while at the same time systematically undermining the sovereignty of national systems, removing, installing, supporting, assassinating whatever political force they see fit.. And this isn't limited to Africa either. The American example you give is an excellent showcase: "United States Armed Forces are about 0.4% of the US population, probably 0.5% of its adult citizens". Might be true, but you're forgetting that America fights wars by proxy. So in Afghanistan and Iraq, for example, you'll see very few actual Americans still there, but there are tons of mercenaries from all over the world (particularly liberian ex-child soldiers, funilly/not funny enough). The numbers of these mercenary forces are so great that nobody actually has exact figures. In addition you will see that the "national" armies are trained and equipped in the "American style", and fight for "American backed" regimes. The primary purpose of both the mercenary forces as well as the "national" armies is to protect foreign (read Western/American) economic interests (like pipelines). They have little to nothing to do with national defense. Again, this isn't limited to Iraq and Afghanistan, but follows a recurring international pattern. National sovereignty is often nothing more than make-believe. The point being that the ratio of American forces might be small compared to it's national population, but the total population of the geographic regions effectively controlled by America, either directly or indirectly further reduces both the ratio of "American" forces to this total population, as well as total ratio of "native" American" (no pun intended) forces to all the forces trained and financed by the USA. Ooof...
All of that is totally off-topic of course, and somewhat controversial, but what's life without a little bit of controversy eh?
54 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:By "possessions" he means their Delian League "allies" and colonies. The Athenian Empire was indeed much bigger than Attica itself. But you knew that and relish in pedantry.
Lol..
Anyway, female clergy, specialized in healing. Male clergy used to boost moral (when implemented of course). Good? Nay? We get some more realistic and specifically female representation. Win/win?
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Please reduce speed of battering ram
in Gameplay Discussion
Posted · Edited by Sundiata
This would be so nice... The first slow projectile representing the actual digging of the tunnel, would generate a moving decal of disturbed earth until it hits the wall. The following projectiles could generate dust at the base of the wall, representing the actual sapping.
Maybe this could be done by specialized one-time sapping units trained at the siege-workshop. Like, three grimy guys with shovels. One-time units, because, let's face it, those poor saps probably didn't have a high survival rate, and I assume it would make coding a little easier if they just die at the end of the attack. They would build a simple tunnel entrance, and then enter, disappearing from sight. Then it would be like 4 slow "bullets": one bullet for digging, generating the decal, and three bullets for each of the sappers. The first bullet only generates the decal. The following three bullets generate dust at the base of the wall. After the final "bullet" hits, the wall collapses (and your sappers die/disappear under the rubble, a worthy sacrifice).
You would just task the sappers to attack a wall or any other structure of choice, and they would automatically construct the tunnel entrance at the same site siege-equipment would choose to unpack, out of range of the towers of whatever it's attacking. The entrance to the tunnel (looking like a small mine entrance) can be destroyed by the enemy, thereby killing the sappers (lack of oxygen).
(the disturbed ground decal would slowly dissipate over time)
So we need a code-charmer huh... Anyone feel compelled?
I think most people want this. Also, units specialized at taking out rams, like sword units, shouldn't ignore rams on the battlefield. It's good that that ranged units automatically focus on organic units, but swordsmen should give equal priority to killing organic and inorganic units like siege and rams. This would do a lot to eliminate unnecessary/unnatural/annoying micro when there's rams on the battlefield.