ValihrAnt
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Posts posted by ValihrAnt
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That means the p1 tech is about 16.5x better from a cost benefit perspective. This just doesn't seem right.
Later upgrades being worse from a cost benefit perspective makes sense, just the metal cost for these upgrades seems a bit too hefty to me currently.
QuoteWhat is the chance that a phase 2 player will win from a phase 3 in alpha23? For that reason we remove the exorbitant 50% bonus. We want a player to be able to choose to stay in phase2 with some strategy and still be able to beat someone in phase 3.
Maybe not win, but phase 2 was still able to punish p3 players very well, especially if they opted to get the last woodcutting upgrade right away. Thats 1500 resources to click P3 + buildings and then another 1300 resources for the last woodcutting upgrade. That gives the P2 player a huge resource advantage which can be used to create a strong population advantage. Unfortunately, with blacksmith upgrades being unrealistic until late P3 (still the case) and no siege to close out the game it wasn't really done too often as you can't effectively close out a game, just try to secure a lead.
Additionally, I don't think an all in P2 player should be able to beat a P3 player unless he can use the early advantage to secure a lead and snowball it.
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Pikeman and spearman need to have an counter vs elephants.
Agree with this.
QuoteChampion elephants need a hp reduction like 10%.
Don't think this one is necessary with spearmen getting an attack bonus vs elephants. Can maybe reduce their armor values by 1 as they now get affected by blacksmith armor upgrades. So initially they'll have less armor than in a23 but after upgrades they'll have more.
QuoteMercenaries need to cost a little less metal and maybe start at rank 2.
This would require a very hefty increase in food cost then.
42 minutes ago, borg- said:Reduce the damage of towers a little or decrease the amount of arrows.
I wouldn't fight against a small nerf.
43 minutes ago, borg- said:Archers needs a little less accuracy, from 2.0 to 2.5.
I agree with a nerf on archers. For infantry damage or accuracy, or a bit of both and for cav archers accuracy.
44 minutes ago, borg- said:Ranged cavalry need to move a little faster (16).
Yes, early cavalry are much too weak now and pretty much are only useful for trying to harass berries.
46 minutes ago, borg- said:Units need reduction in training time mainly cavalry. 8 women 10/12 infantry and 14/15 cav?
Yes, a return to the old values or something similar is necessary. I was happy to experiment with the changes, but upon figuring out the meta more it's just simply a step back. I guess it also depends on how you define spam. In a23 making 1 barrack for a faster uptime or 2 for a stronger eco approach was the norm. Now the meta, atleast in my experience, is to plop down 2/3 barracks in p1 and spam from there as resources come in quicker than they can be spent otherwise. For me that fits as an increase in unit spam.
On a tangent, I suppose another reason for doing more barracks is that the 2nd level economy techs have become more expensive for less gain and it's more efficient to just spam out units in p1 and skip straight to p3, while getting the techs on the way up. Not getting the phase up hp bonuses also makes it super risky to phase up early now. In higher level games it was something that was already being punished, especially by @borg-and @Feldfeld , and with those bonuses gone it becomes super dangerous for no real gain.
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I'd also like to hear some thoughts on altering or removing the passive stance. The main problem is with units doing the weird run and thus avoiding shots and baiting the attacking units after them. Most noticable on healers and women with the loom upgrade as units will run straight into the enemy army to try and chase them. Then there's also players who put the hero on passive stance and position the hero in front of their army as an easy alternative to dancing.
Edit. Also with melee units becoming more usable and necessary, dancing should be far more difficult.
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Some issues and stuff:
1) Spectators are able to rejoin a game even if late observer joins are disabled. Basically, an observer who was kicked from a match can rejoin despite him theoretically not being allowed to by the setting. I didn't test if an observer who simply left a match is able to rejoin despite late joins being disabled.
2) On normal buildings you can set the garrison point to inside of the building, so the trained units are instantly garrisoned. This is not possible on warships, which means that Persian and Athenian ships which train units must find a shoreline for the units to spawn and then manually garrison them.
3) I'm not currently a big fan of the outpost changes. The garrisoned unit being vulnerable feels weird and with how little vision bonus the outpost provides it's better to just patrol the unit. If this is kept the vision bonus should be increased from 20 to atleast 40+, though I'd rather go back to how the outposts used to work and maybe make them a slight bit weaker hp wise.
4) Unit rotation times have an unintended consequence that reduces incentive for early aggression. So, while food gather rates remain about the same wood gather rate is considerably slowed down, which leads to players creating far fewer farms and also requiring fewer units gathering extra berries. That makes it much more difficult to find value in an early rush as the woodline will be more reinforced and the smaller food economy is easier to protect with the Civic center or house garrisoning. (Not sure what's the best way to go about this one)
Also some things I think are important to become part of the base game in A25.
1) Building creation and selection hotkeys. The groundwork has already been done with the hotkey editor and these are probably the most important hotkeys for any RTS game to have.
2) Specific unit training hotkeys. Currently which unit you train with the hotkeys is tied to their order in the selected buildings. It'd be great if we were able to set a specific hotkey to each unit. So a citizen skirmisher will always be trained with the same hotkey no matter whether he is first in the selection or last.
That's about all that came to my head at this moment.
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I think what might have happened is that one was using the GitHub mirror and the other SVN?
Yeah, that's the case. I was on SVN and badosu through GitHub. Thanks for your time, we'll know to check for that in the future
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I tested it and it makes it impossible to dance. At least I didn't manage to find a way to play it in the short time I messed with it. The one problem with this is that it does make unit movement feel very clunky. Maybe it can be fiddled with to make it nicer though currently, gameplay wise, experimenting with units having aimbot could feel a lot smoother, but that's just me.
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May gods (banned: Ptol and rome) vs animal farm (banned: ptol and iber)
SpoilerMay gods 0 : 1 animal farm
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eae em vs Goats
EDIT: banned civs from both sides: Ptol and brit
Spoilereae em 0 : 1 Goats
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New version. Changes include:
Removed Promotion animations
Spear cavalry: 6H + 5P / 2s to 4H + 3P / 1.25s, champ and hero spear cav adjusted in same manner.
Rams: 0.9 speed to 0.8 and can't attack organic units + fields anymore
Allow building Kushite merc camps in neutral territoryMostly made this to play around with some proposed changes in multiplayer more easily.
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ValihrAnt vs Feldfeld
Very nice and fun matches.
We also both streamed the matches, so if you want you can watch the vods.
My pov (with commentary): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/595518040?t=0h1m9s
Feld pov (no commentary): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/595515841?t=0h5m8s
Draft: Ant bans Gauls, Feld bans Ptol. Ant picks Brits, Romans and Athenians, Feld picks Brits, Athenians and Spartans.
Score:
SpoilerVali 1:2 Feld
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ValihrAnt vs dakeyras
Bans: Ptolemies & Britons
SpoilerValihrAnt 2:0 dakeyras
I'll also upload the replays for the past games which I had sent directly to Stockfish initially.
PPL Vali vs dakeyras.zip PPL Vali vs Taylor Games.zip PPL Vali vs H.Herly.zip
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12 minutes ago, Stockfish said:
1) Solved, ValihrAnt, in the post it says 300 pop, and i think it is obvious that 300 res too.
It might be obvious to you or me, but some others could be unsure what to pick. It's better to mention these things instead of assuming that everyone will just know what settings are correct.
14 minutes ago, Stockfish said:2) Solved. But as i didn't say anything about that, i thought it was obvious that you can pick a picked civ.
The norm in drafting is that an already taken civ can't be taken by the other player. This deviates from that so, again, I think it should be made more clear.
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@Stockfish Here you've uploaded an old version of the balanced-maps mod, which doesn't even contain the map ''Cross''. Also detailing on what settings (Population size, starting resources etc.) the maps should be played would be very helpful in avoiding confusion.
QuoteIn picks and bans, player "A" is the most ranked, and player "B" is the less ranked. (no need to use the civs in you named them) (bans affects BOTH players)
It would be very helpful to mention that you allow both players to also pick the same civs. Additionally including how the drafting and banning is done below this line will make it much easier for players to know how the drafting is done, as otherwise it can be easily unnoticed in the poster.
QuoteJUNGLE AND SAVANNAH BIOMES ARE REMOVED FROM THE TOURNAMENT.
I understand removing jungle but why savanna?
QuoteTHE RESULTS MUST BE SENT TO THIS ACCOUNT IN A FORUM PRIVATE MESSAGE WITH THE REPLAYS.
I WANT TO SAY THANKS TO ALL THE 0 A.D. INFLUENCERS THAT WILL MAKE VIDEOS TO THE COMMUNITY. THANK YOU =DDD
So you will upload all the replays to the first post?
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Ant is signing up too.
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I have some questions.
Quote- Two winners will be classified for an event that will be made with the two winners of the 4 ''0 A.D. ''Primus Pilus'' Tournaments''
How does this work? From what I understand you want to do 4 separate tournaments? And I don't quite get the two winners part for four tournaments. I'm guessing you want a separate league for the winners of those tournaments?
Quote- You must ban 1 civ and choose 3 in this order: Player A bans 1, Player B bans 1, Player A choose 1, Player B choose 1... all that in room chat. (no need to use civs in order)
Does the ban affect both players or only the opponent? Of course I would prefer hidden pick over drafting, but limitations remain limitations.
Lastly will @badosu's balanced maps mod be used in the tournament? It's a good improvement over the current unfair mapgen and it adds new competitive maps.
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This would be great! A true standard 1v1 to settle any issues.
A fully mirrored map will mean that a player will be capable of knowing exactly what resources, and where, the enemy has. So for an early rush I'll know exactly where all the berry spots are, where the woodlines are and such. It severely reduces importance of scouting. Other than that not too many downsides I can think of right now.
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That's the crashed one.
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It's probably because Carthage trains their champions at their temple. (Whether that's a good thing is a different discussion.)
Kushites also train champions in their temple, but the temples still cost 300 stone. Though, I suppose it is 1 champion vs 2 champions.
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Updated the mod to most likely the last version.
VERSION 6.0 CHANGES
Actually changed archer damage to 6.7P from 6.8P
Fixed elephant archer speed, as I originally didn't realise they had cav archers as parent template.
Carthaginian temple cost from 400S to 300S
Kushite small pyramid cost reduced from 300F 300S to 300SThe Carthaginian temple is the only temple not to have a resource cost of 300, I have changed it to fit with the rest after some requests. Is the higher cost intended or is it an oversight that should also be fixed for a24? Additionally I have changed the small pyramid cost to just 300 stone from 300 food and 300 stone. Should make them a bit more accessible and hopefully more used.
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If I recall correctly (@fatherbushido?), splash damage is spread out over the splash area, so a lower radius means the same total amount of damage is concentrated in a smaller area. From 10 to 7 means that the area is half as large, so units inside take double the damage (π*10^2 / π*7^2 = 2.04).
Thank you for pointing it out. Looks like I'll have to experiment with the numbers more to see what works best.
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New version released, available on the first post.
Changes in this version:
Reverted all champion changes, due to extra metal mine spawns being entirely random. This means that very often 1 team will have a considerable advantage, due to having access to extra metal. I've even played multiple matches just in this balancing mod where one team had only 1 or no extra metal mines at all, while the other team had safe access to all other metal spawns. Also removed the champion tech unlock change.
Additionally I've lowered archer damage by 0.1P from 6.8 to 6.7, changed around War elephant cost to have higher food than metal cost and also slightly lowered catapult aoe damage.
Version 5.0 changes
Champion cost and unlock tech back to old cost
Citizen archers: 6.8P to 6.7P
War elephants: 225F and 225M to 300F and 200M
Catapults: Splash damage radius: 10m to 7m-
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1 hour ago, Stan` said:
I have no problems with this being included into base game. As for giving ideas for any other functions, I won't be able to help.
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New mod version uploaded and is available from the first post.
Quotemake those champs cost 2 pop
Currently champs aren't strong enough for that to be required. Would make them obsolete in the current balance, but maybe in some future rebalancing.
QuoteMaybe it would be a good idea to take the opportunity to differentiate unit types by their cost
I suppose it wouldn't be bad to do so and it is already done for some units (swordsmen in vanilla, swords and all champion infantry types in my mod). Additionally why change something that works perfectly fine considering that the changes will require much more testing and one of my goals is to keep the changes as uncomplicated as possible.
QuoteThese are the most significant changes: infantry from 300 to 205 resources, cavalry from 450 to 285. Champions used to be rather expensive (towers cost only 200), so I'm not against making them cheaper. However, perhaps reduce their armour a bit to compensate. (Four armour levels is equivalent to +52% health and champions already have twice as much health as citizens, so effectively they're three times as hard to kill. Plus they have double the attack damage, so they're “worth” six times as much?)
I have increased cost of champs slightly in the newest version. 4 armor levels is 34% armor, I'm not exactly sure how that would work out to 52% extra hp but maybe I'm missing something. Additionally armor levels don't scale linearly. 4 armor is 34%, level 5 is 41%, level 6 is 47%, 7 is 52% and so on. Normal spear cav have 4 base pierce armor and champ spear cav have 8 pierce armor, that is 34% vs 57% pierce armor. With armor upgrades those percentage differences become smaller. For the champions having two times more health, it is half true. Champions have 2x more health of phase 1 units, but phase 2 gives a 20% hp bonus to just citizen soldiers and phase 3 gives a 10% hp bonus on top of the phase 2 hp value. So the difference becomes quite a bit smaller. There are a few more things disadvantages, those are that champions give more loot and experience, and that they can't work or build. So champs don't work out to be 6x better in the end. 0ADs citizen soldier utility makes things on the balancing department a lot more difficult.
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Civ Differentiation: Athens
in Balancing Discussions
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Yes, I like this very much.
Additionally, I really liked having a P2 champion meant for head on fighting. This is something that was removed together with the stoa, but from what I understand the unit itself wasn't too problematic (Rhomphaia/Black Cloak). So what about moving them to the barrack and having a tech to unlock them in P2? It would also mean that Athenians will now have atleast 1 trainable champion between the barrack and the stable.
This could also, of course, be done for the Macedonians or a different civilization it'd make more sense for. I just really like the idea of having a P2 champion for direct fights on top of the naked fanatics meant more for raiding.