Radagast.

What I also like about the Nomad System is that this way you would find abandoned houses of foreign cultures in the middle of nowhere. Of course they would quickly decay as there is no more territors once the Nomad tent has been packed, but they would stay at least for a while. Once we have visual decay too, i.e. make the decaying buildings look more and more broken with time, then it would really be fascinating. Ineed, I almost forgot about that in this context. Good you mention it. I wonder if we should allow Nomads to settle in foreign territory. From a historically accurate view yes. Because e.g. Robin Hood also settled in a countryside that belonged to someone (some king/lord/city). We talked about mercenaries, where we settled on neutral mini factions being available as mercenaries. And also to have the chance to build buildings in neutral territory (like the roman entranched fort/camp) . These neutral buildings could be used to train mercenaries. Also there could be neutral build types which belong to the mercenaries , just like a tavern in the wild where mercenaries and adventurers gather. Should we allow creating settlements (!= military camp) in neutral territories only to a special unit type (like pioneer or scout or animal which bears a tent / pulls a wagon)? Yes, 0AD is too quick to have an up to date wiki. Let's keep up the speed and 0AD finally really takes off.

Again it took longer than expected, but I'm working on it. Will continue the whole night. Now we also have a filter. Import is still untested. Export non-existent. But slowly we get around the sorting, grouping, ordering, adding Files and copying elements as well as adding new civilisations.

Not bad. If you designed it, do you have some sources? Like screenshots, perhaps even the map files? Have you seen the Massive Map?

Best would be to have a general solution that also fits real nomadic tribes. Once we have the possibility to pack each and every building, we can easily have Nomad maps too. e.g. Armies that travel, construct their tents, in this time they have some territory. Once the tents are packed, no more territory and the journey continues. Now concrete idea of the code currently on my side, but a solution should be general enough to allow all these variants without code duplication.

I support additional slower simulation speeds. In a battle you have no time at all for giving your commands. This is especially feelable as there are no commanders yet, which could stand by with decisions on the group/formation level. As we have already several velocities, it should not have consequences for multiplayer, neither be too much hassle. The multithreading is possible. The team always pays attention to that fact. Nevertheless I have to ask if you would like to debug an Alpha program which changes rapidly - when you have to pay attention to the 4th dimension: time? I've spent weeks of my life infront of a machine just because of that and I didn't like it.

That's good news, agent. I've not yet reached that part of the engine. Wraitii - which also tweaked our awesome water - could perhaps know what to do best to fix it. If Wraitii has no time either, then we have to fix it ourself somehow. But this then not makes it into Alpha 16 for sure.

Good idea, Lion. As we only have tested the Egyptians, we indeed need an Egyptian name. Also in the upcoming releases we probably will not have the chance to choose an Egyptian name too soon again. We should probably start with Amāna-Ḥātpa as it's the earliest of those listed? Should we add a poll, Lion ? (we have approx. 1 week left to get a system running. We should test with Alpha 16 once it's released - then zip a working version , named as Aristeia--0.0.16 ?)

As I use SQLite for the database (1 simple file) exchanging data should be really easy. Synchronising is what I'm concerned of. Local version: Benefits Diadvantages: - Yet people have to download your program + .NET/MONO runtime. - And they have to commit the result somehow in a repository. For that it's necessary to have a versioning program. Also conflicts have to be resolved with delay. Probably a dead end for a researcher. Alternative: Local web-program execution: With Backend: Set up a local Apache e.g. XAMPP for PHP, Tomcat for JSP and run our web-program locally in your browser (localhost). Live civ editor for 0AD Client only: If we converted the PHP to JavaScript and ran it directly in 0AD - a live civ editor for 0AD were born. It could then be executed locally without even localhost (and have file I/O access via SpiderMonkey-->Pyrogenesis). Reasoning for why pure JavaScript only is sensible within 0AD: Result: It might be useful to have a lightweight from 0ad separated program at hand for research. On the other hand live-edit in 0AD for researchers would be epic. For live-edit from within 0AD the only disadvantage is that 0AD has to be run - and might be memory hungry. Usage: Example -42 Most useful might be the up-to-date keeping of the xml/json format (change a xpath for one xml value in one file and the same happens consistently for all files with the same xpath therein.). Example -1 Or assume 0AD has changed the element scheme. Oh no!! It's all invalidated now! What shall we do? Update a million civilisations' data structure manually? As we don't want our beards to grow too long while editing, the least we could do is changing one civ and the other civs follow automatically. Example 1 Or if you rename file ai/data.json , then all existing ai's data.json will be renamed (identical values are linked by default). We have a copy option to make single user copy. Then delete the old data row/value and we have it: a new file data-bloc which we can rename individually, e.g. ai/data.json -> ai/data.json.bak . Example 2 Also if you group by xpath you see which content other civs have close by. Nice if you want to know what value similar elements have. Example 3 Once we have a timeframe tag ingame in our schemes, then we can achieve a nice folded view sorted by year (of all our data): Receipe: group by timerange /begin or timetag,sort by the same column ^. And the best is, it's not really complicated to achieve. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth it (as we can achieve the same with UNIX commands). As said before, it's not for the Linux expert, it's for the researchers. Don't forget me: We have to add a check that checks if the value has been changed by someone else in the meantime. These rows should be highlighted and the old value be updated - or a triple diff shown (but that are really things we add bit by bit with time's river flowing uphill).

Where we're at it. I really like: Color scheme designer

Saved games are a desirable feature. And if there is a limitation in the API then we have to change it. I don't think your patch will be rejected if it's working. In opposite, they will be happy when the bug is fixed. Edit: If you can solve the problem with extending common API functions, then you could even offer it as a mod. So not even a review.

Ah, my fault. More Reply Options (Más opciones de respuesta [Google translate]) Next to the Post button. (and then Browse .. below the text field where you type)

Probably fill and outline ... (though I don't know)

Hey Trinketos, you could also upload it here in the forum if you like. (More reply options (next to Post-button) -> Attachments) Just for the case. Btw. Nice temple. I'm looking forward to this Civic Center. And Lion's stone logo.

Updated & tidied up the first post: -> To the first post. Several discussions with MuteLovestone, Lion, other councilors & on IRC have brought us closer to a decision on where to store what. See here for the discussion (also linked in the first post). MuteLovestone wants to see how much information for a Mod-Info-File can be automatically generated.

For API changes they surely want to see it in a patch and then discuss it in the trac ticket and in IRC. (but it would be indeed helpful if wraitii(author API3) and mimo had a look at this topic.)

We're a community project. Contributions are always welcome. (change it, create a diff vs SVN and create a trac ticket) And nice story indeed. If the API doesn't continue this may be. We should fix it indeed. (this then really is unrelated to deserialisation if there is a bug in getting things rolling again) Edit: I just thought it would continue its logic after reload, i.e. continue using the objects/memory if they were loaded correctly. But if there is a problem in this continuing .. then okay. And btw. the picture is not standing, it's currently starting over again and this is because the AI side IS NOT EVEN SERIALISED as wraitii stated. So if this step is missing, then even the step AFTER the loading has no effect - even if it would work (but apparently it doesn't as you have spotted a bug. I would love to see this going, and I think I'm not alone.). Edit: I have added point 4 to my list: continuing.

you're the master. Okay, so you think of Events that are just on their way to the engine or which events are these? Or do you mean dynamic data, which can't be stored if I remember Sander's words correctly? After a game is loaded, the AI has to rebuild the Events. I'm not sure if it does, probably not - but how can we fix it. What do you think? I would genuinely be interested in proper saved & properly continued loaded games. Edit: I just can't get why my Units/AI decision tree (and hence their thinking) should be lost if they are serialised,stored,reloaded.continued. <-- thx Agentx for pointing outWhy should the gamestate then not continue. All the objects can be deserialised, so finally ALL is included (at least all that we serialised before). But I think, you know what you are speaking about. So could you clarify even more? Or even fix it at the end. I saw your Hannibal progress - so I think you're the man for it.

The AI stores events e.g. attacks as attack plans (ongoing + planned ones). So if this attack class is serialised completely, then the saved games should indeed work. How would such a general serialisation concept look like in practise? You said, the simulation components is serialising its own state? So we have a recursive serialisation? Where is the serialised class' data string put ? how is it concatenated I mean? As the C++ side just has one method and accepts a single serialised chunk of data no? )

Thx, we will put up a civ mod for you. This you have to put into data/mods/ folder then. Do you use Alpha 15? Or SVN/Git repository custom build? Because to activate your own civ you have to launch 0AD differently. You have to launch it with the parameters: -mod=my_civ_mod_folder_name -mod=another_mod Usually you can edit the 0AD link, right click edit/properties und add it there as argument. On Mac OS or linux best fire up a command line and run /path/to/pyrogenesis -mod="my civ" -mod=my_other_civEdit: Before we can create a mod, all the data has to be collected somehow. And the artwork created. Best you collect all you find/want to have in the first post of this topic.

I'm trying to set up a database for all civilisations (at least for mods as there chaos is great king). [This post will be updated.] Where to find: You see an old rusty gate with foreign inscripts. Pass through it. (the UI is not really functional yet, as no data exists) Terminology: - Leaf node: Mostly text. The final value. ----Civilisation----civilisation_file.xml:<root_element> <element attribute="leaf node"> leaf node.1 </element> ...<root_element>Functionality & Status:- Generate a civilisation or mod structure from an existing template, e.g. an existing civilisation or from a mod folder recursively (such that it has not to be created from scratch). - There is no fixed export filetype. Both JSON and XML can be output (to put into mods/<mod>/ folder). untested - The export target fileformat can be set on a per file basis. And changed even for already existing civilisation data. - Add new civilisation. - Rename civilisation, - Merge civilisations. - Add new File to civilization. - Rename file within all civilisations at the same time. - Move elements from one file to another. - Add new leaf element. (via xpath) - Insert/modify leaf node values. (good for researchers that don't have git or repository access) - Version control. not yet - Sorting (after Civ, File, XPath, or Leaf Value), - Grouping (after Civ, File, XPath, or Leaf Value), - Filtering (dynamic), - Option to apply changes to all occurrences in the whole database. <-- That's powerful, but also very dangerous if it goes wrong. - Option to modify equal values through out the currently filtered data rows.<-- That's quite useful as this way you can 1) filter the rows you wish to change. e.g. all occurrences of mesh_and_animation.v1.dae to mesh_and_animation.v2.dae within a certain civilisation.. - Updating the database civilisation structure by reading a template folder recursively when data already exists, creates new leaf elements automatically and shows in the civs that new elemets now have to/can be added/ are still empty and need to be filled. buggy Example: A new required element has been added, e.g. timetag/timerange. Now all civilisation data that not has this element yet, will have this added automatically (with dummy data, that can be changed thereafter). Targets: The target is researchers. Hopefully this later can be combined with a mercurial setup. I just have to add a button to allow researchers to commit their data.

Finally each texture could be a separate mod. If you give it the same filename consistently, OR we get line by line overloading of mods/<mod>/ (like a diff somehow)then everyone can put together own variants (case 2) or at least choose which texture to use (case 1). So don't throw the textures away. Put it orderly named in a repository. Then we can use them all and no work is lost - multidiversity as side-effect of striving to perfection so to say ..

true. can't be wrong. Personally my master reason for programming is to automate tedious or time-consuming work to the utmost. The secondary reason is to make awesome things happen without/minimal (material) cost.

Thank you. How could I mix this up? Immortals and Invincible, the difference is significant. Hephaestion -> Yes, Optimatoi. Could we have them really significant? It is said the losses were always kept as low as possible - how could we achieve that? @Flavius Aetius: Awesome post in the discussion thread. Now we have two more Roman factions in the workings. I have to parse all available data and put it into my civ generator ... just working on it.

In blender we have a generator for it (called sapling, comes with default blender). Though an oak might be difficult.

I can't see any unstability here unless I didn't break something. If repository has been updated but not been built & you try to run e.g. Atlas, then it might be unstable because the resources might have changed (just try it when having broken Actors loaded and rotate the character wildly .. it will surely crash). But really that's an edge case of all edge case on this planet. (I wonder how I hit this one.) Also we are in Alpha. And for Alpha this is a mighty piece of programming & art works. I share this one. People even start employing people to write test cases only. At the end they wonder how it can be that they have tests but no program. Also tests usually need their own tests (as they are human written and contain bugs themselves, we had this all). Do you see the infinite loop? Yet another bug in this system. Do we need a test to test our theories about if we need a test now? .. really funny who invented this test hype. Simply throw up a debugger and check the functionality yourself. If you don't find it with the debugger, then how shall your written test cases be correct?