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@Vantha I guess I'll make a big PR of names, not to spam with too many PRs. Regarding Ekdromoi and Prodromoi, as mentioned, they are roles, but: -You state there that "the Skiritai's role in battle still unclear to this day. It's not proven they fought as Ekdromoi", but Thucydides in his Peloponnesian War states "Agis afraid of his left being surrounded, and thinking that the Mantineans outflanked it too far, ordered the Sciritae and Brasideans to move out from their place in the ranks and make the line even with the Mantineans". This "move out" and "making the line even" sounds, at least to me, extremely similar to Xenophon's "maintaining a front level with the sallying troops" I previously quoted, with "sallying troops" being what's translated from the ekdromoi word he uses. This is not to say that the Sciritae were in that role always. -The game does have the unit Prodromos (Cavalry Javelineer), for the Athenians at least, but that's clearly not the correct translation. I was going to propose in Part II either Prodromos (Scout) or Hippakontistēs (Cavalry Javelineer). I prefer the second one, people would realise it's what makes sense to be used as a scout. Regarding psilos, I have to disagree, considering I quoted from five different books precisely to show the generality of the term, with Sekunda even stating for certain context that likely "it can be taken to mean non-combatant 'attendants'". Regarding "Athenian slingers for instance are only slingers for gameplay reasons", I guessed this could be a reason (although I was hoping it was random!), and this is the kind of explanation I'd like to hear from people that know since I have no idea, because it's unfortunate that things end being the other way around than explicitly attested , although if gameplay reasons are too strong I do see the difficulty in adjusting everything else for this.

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Exactly, that's one of the secrets of Athenian ships speed: rowers from the thetes (lowest citizen class) training all their life to get a place as oarsmen. Champions are supposed to be the full-time troops, the elite. But it's also about the machines themselves, strict specifications is what made certain triremes fast, and the best were given a top rating (coming in Part II). I'm more inclined to give them restrictions (like organic champions). I mentioned going back to the Dock or Arsenal because specialised tools and materials would be needed to properly repair these fine-tuned machines. As you say, this would be more accurate for ships than for siege engines. For engines there were "depots" back in their city-states: the arsenals (there are surviving storage lists). One cannot really build most catapults in the field, they are built in workshops, transported by parts, and assembled close to where they are going to be used. Smaller engines would then need proper replacement parts, and while armies would be carrying them, one can also think they'd eventually run out of them (and if close to one's territory, one can "emulate" proper supply lines by building an Arsenal there, which would just represent where the engineers are making the proper adjustments). Bigger engines were indeed built in situ, but they would be destroyed or abandoned (and/or salvaged, pending implementation), they should be extremely slow and make any further marching after repairs unviable (that is, I wasn't expecting players to return those all the way to an Arsenal from enemy territory in the first place). All this means that with imperfect but simple rules (same for ships and engines) one could end up emulating more realistic situations than expected. Hopefully

Great. Feel free to ping me then in the issue or assign it to me. Or even better, if plan you to do it more often in the future, make a PR yourself; changes like this can be made pretty easily, the unit names are defined in the template files in binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/units/. I could help you figure out the Gitea stuff. Regarding the Ekdromoi, I made this thread a few years ago: Regarding the Prodromoi, they are already present in the game, no? About the term "Psiloi", I don't think it's too general. There's always a balance to strike between making it perfectly accurate, but also interesting gameplay-wise. That's why we often chose the native name describing the people that a unit actually represents rather than what it ended up as in the game. The Athenian slingers for instance are only slingers for gameplay reasons, but they historically represent any skirmishers in general, including the ones that just threw rocks.

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I'm on a forum a lot and I had miss both your posts still. I only dug into the issue when realizing the bug myself. Since games can have diplo turned off, there is a small chance this bug could have even made it to next release unnoticed even... This is a formal invitation to help on git by opening tickets when you encounter such bugs..

Looks like the latest SVn update solved this issue. Thank you very much!

Phantastic - it seems the latest SVN update solved this issue!

Just some very basic consideration (non historical of course): My first reaction was "Anorganic entities like ships or siege engines actually cannot learn, which is the basic conditions to move upwards on the elite training ladder", but the crews operating them can and these are in our case part of the virtual anorganic unit. Like, a good artillery or sailing/rowing crew can move quicker and aim and hit targets much better than newbies. Therefore it does make sense. I believe, auto repair (self-healing) is something that would realistically be feasible only ashore for ships, e.g. at a shipyard at best - and it does cost resources (wood and metal). For siege engines there were no depots, instead I guess they were built near the battlefield. So repair is done by other units.

Sure, I guess after I finish with the coming two parts for the Athenians I'll gather all my hopefully non-controversial naming improvements (and icon proposals?) and do that.

oh yes, how I love charging into town with my cavalry and killing a bunch of pregnant women.

Huh... I was kinda thinking maybe it could be implemented as a type of unit for Athens. Maybe I can try modding that and see how it goes.

Thanks for your concern . We've already resolved this.

Correct, except helots in vanilla have same stats as pretty much all other javelineer units which doesn't make as much sense to me and dont bother with @Arup He talks a lot, but wont ever try anything

Yes, for sure you would already have Perioeci hoplites, so it's ok if you leave the javelineers just as helots (like in vanilla!).

Based off of one of the articles you sent, it sounds like most Perioeci were still equip as hoplites. That's why we gave helots both jav and slinger options. We have cretan archers but not until p3 i dont think. And theracian peltasts available p2.

I suggest you open a ticket for all these name changes in the gitea @Vantha or @wowgetoffyourcellphone might help bring these changes to life

For Sparta, helot slingers seem fine, for javelineers being Perioeci instead would be possible, but maybe you wanted to keep them as weak as possible. Mercenary Cretan archers later on are also a possibility, which could balance what should be their weak cavalry and very slow infantry, but fast when forming up. For Athens, as proposed, just substitute slingers with archers, which is very important considering the literature quoted (in particular that archers "were usually mercenaries, often from Crete, but Athens was an exception. The Athenians had native foot-archers"). In Part II I'll mention I think they should be a somewhat "fast" civ early on (for Greek standards), in contraposition to Sparta.

@Thalatta as the self proclaimed biggest worshipper of Athena im hurt you did not ping me into this topic before