Unit specific upgrades

[real_tabasco_sauce]

it works out very well for persians. Look how the order is the same, so each upgrade is beneath the unit.

Edited January 30, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I figured I would make a new zip file for the mod in case anyone wants to give it a try with the new changes. It is just copied from my community mod branch, so there are a lot of extra files in there.

UnitSpecUpgrades.zip

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

38 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I figured I would make a new zip file for the mod in case anyone wants to give it a try with the new changes. It is just copied from my community mod branch, so there are a lot of extra files in there.

UnitSpecUpgrades.zip 2 MB · 2 downloads

 

I accidentally gave han the sword upgrade, even thought they don't have swordsmen. Let me know if you see something else like this in the mod.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

17 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

Just reordering works pretty well for civs without mercs and fewer champs:

Yeah it's better, still not as good if they were moved to the 2nd row

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I was thinking scouting could look more like this

 

or maybe reuse cartography.png

Edited February 1, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 29/01/2023 at 7:25 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

UnitSpecUpgrades.zip 2 MB · 3 downloads

 

2000+ files seems a bit excessive. lol

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

2000+ files seems a bit excessive. lol

yes, it was rather lazily assembled from my community mod branch. I figured interest would be small and that most would rather wait for possible inclusion in the community mod anyway. I don't recommend using this and the community mod together.

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Ooo this is nice. Yeah, I would rather use that than the campfire.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Ooo this is nice. Yeah, I would rather use that than the campfire.

Can't use it. It's just an example.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

24 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Can't use it. It's just an example.

Ah i see. Well, I think the campfire is not that bad to be honest. Maybe instead I could call it "scouting parties" with the campfire signifying the group resting briefly.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

What do people think of the prices? 100f,w,m for town phase upgrades and 200 f,w,m for city phase? Obviously some will be more valuable than others depending on the civ, but is 300 and 600 resources total too much? My worry is that the price will make them unused by comparison to the blacksmith upgrades.

That being said, they shouldn't be so cheap that you can quickly pick them all up, the idea is to "tech into" a certain unit type and afford to switch to another depending on your opponents strategy.

[AIEND]

I think we need to add such a technology to range soldiers, of course, the premise is that we have to weaken their firepower, or further strengthen the melee soldiers, so as not to kill them all before they can get close to the range soldiers.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 02/02/2023 at 11:04 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

100f,w,m for town phase upgrades and 200 f,w,m for city phase?

Again, any feedback on prices? Maybe this part doesn't matter so much at the moment, perhaps we could just adjust prices as needed for balance.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I would like the price high enough so that people don’t just mindlessly click all of them without considering which ones they want. On another hand we want the price to be low enough to justify the purchase. Perhaps adding 50 metal to the first series and 100 metal to the second series would put them in that range.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

For prices, I personally hate 3 and 4 resource costs for anything, including techs. Dilutes what each resource is supposed to be for, but that's just an overall philosophy, not a critique of these specific techs.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

I am thinking the prices will probably see changes based on how powerful each individual tech or what makes sense.

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

For prices, I personally hate 3 and 4 resource costs for anything, including techs. Dilutes what each resource is supposed to be for, but that's just an overall philosophy, not a critique of these specific techs.

I see what you mean, but it would also be weird to have prices too divided. (metal for techs, stone for buildings, food/wood for units would be the other extreme).

The main thing with these upgrades is that they shouldn't be too easy or hard to get compared to forge techs, and they should be accessible alongside forge techs. If they cost too much wood/metal, then they become mutually exclusive with forge techs. Thats why a portion of it is food.

I think if one of the three should be dropped, it should be wood, what do you think? Something like this:

tier 1: 75 food, 125 metal

tier 2: 150 food, 250 metal

Edited February 6, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

11 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

metal for techs, stone for buildings, food/wood for units would be the other extreme

I mean, this is a very logical division and not extreme at all. Though, I'd diversify it a bit and go:

Basic Buildings = Wood

Military/Defensive Buildings = Wood+Stone/Stone

Special Buildings and Civic Centers = (Depends) Stone+Metal

General Techs = Metal+ 1 other res

Blacksmith Techs = Metal+Wood

Health/Temple Techs = Food+Metal

All Meaty land units = Food+Wood/Food+Metal

All Siege units = Wood+Metal

All Naval units = Food+Wood

[real_tabasco_sauce]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Basic Buildings = Wood

Military/Defensive Buildings = Wood+Stone/Stone

Special Buildings and Civic Centers = (Depends) Stone+Metal

General Techs = Metal+ 1 other res

Blacksmith Techs = Metal+Wood

Health/Temple Techs = Food+Metal

All Meaty land units = Food+Wood/Food+Metal

All Siege units = Wood+Metal

All Naval units = Food+Wood

In my opinion, this a little too dumbed down, I appreciate more nuanced prices that we currently have, and I think 3 resources in a technology can be ok, depending.

If all siege units were wood metal, it would be a little too easy to quickly switch from using rams to catapults.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

What you call dumbed down, I call consistent. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 01/02/2023 at 11:07 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

yes, it was rather lazily assembled from my community mod branch. I figured interest would be small and that most would rather wait for possible inclusion in the community mod anyway. I don't recommend using this and the community mod together.

Ooo this is nice. Yeah, I would rather use that than the campfire.

the problem of using copyright, huh?

[Lion.Kanzen]

On 02/02/2023 at 1:16 PM, AIEND said:

I think we need to add such a technology to range soldiers, of course, the premise is that we have to weaken their firepower, or further strengthen the melee soldiers, so as not to kill them all before they can get close to the range soldiers.

I liked, sometimes it would be nice to add techs to the arsenal (blacksmith)  just to buff classes and not all  units at once.

[AIEND]

2 小时前，Lion.Kanzen 说：

我喜欢，有时将技术添加到武器库（铁匠）只是为了增强类而不是同时增强所有单位会很好。

More often than not, refining the enhancements to different units means enhancing skills rather than weapons, and these technologies should be dispersed in the buildings where these units are trained, rather than in the blacksmith.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

the problem of using copyright, huh?

The campfire was found on gameart.org and is cc0.

 

6 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I liked, sometimes it would be nice to add techs to the arsenal (blacksmith)  just to buff classes and not all  units at once.

Indeed, not only do I dislike most of the techs requiring 3-4 resources, I also dislike the techs being so broadly applied (unfocused). It's like we're afraid of making the player deal with the consequences of their tech decisions.  These new techs go far to addressing that.

 

3 hours ago, AIEND said:

More often than not, refining the enhancements to different units means enhancing skills rather than weapons, and these technologies should be dispersed in the buildings where these units are trained, rather than in the blacksmith.

Agreed. Blacksmith can be broad, with a few more-focused civ-special techs, while the "barracks" techs can be focused on individual unit classes. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Generally speaking, it would be nice to standardize some things, like:

1 civ-specific blacksmith tech for each civ.

1 civ-specific tech for each civ at the Civic Center.

1 at the Temple.

2 at the Fortress or Champion Building.

And then 1-2 wild card techs for each civ placed in any building (I can imagine 1 or 2 special techs placed in the Dock for the Athenians and the Shipyard for the Carthaginians, for example).

 

I wouldn't count any of the new unit-specific techs in this thread as civ-specific, since they are given to all civs with those classes of units. They are class-specific, not civ-specific.

Edited February 7, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[real_tabasco_sauce]

8 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I liked, sometimes it would be nice to add techs to the arsenal (blacksmith)  just to buff classes and not all  units at once.

Yeah thats what I have done here, except they are in the barracks/stable. In the forge, these would be very crowded, while in production buildings, they are less crowded and their association with each unit class is clear.

Edited February 7, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce