Resources Depletion

[Servo]

I just watched some pro games and they are quick. iNcog and Borg. With the type of gameplay I will just enjoy playing the AI. If I want to play multi I'll just go to RoN. Someone modding RoN and was tested by Sergio and is working. Hellenistic kind of thing with beautiful buildings. So far I haven't played AOE2 in a while and been waiting for Civ6 to lessen price too. 

I think I will stay with 0AD on single player. As long as it's playable the game is very promising on single player. It's nice to play the game on lower speeds up to .75 max and very low resources. I will just toy with the Hardest AI. 

[Sundiata]

Interesting discussion. I also think there is still room for fleshing out the game a little more (especially economically). There should be a little more focus on strategy vs tactics. There should always be more than 1 viable way of attaining dominance (diplomatic and economy, as opposed to only naked military aggression).  

I also like the idea of trees regenerating. But it might spoil the balance. For longer games though, I think it makes a lot of sense.

@Servo You are not the only one who plays like that. I can spend hours (even days) on a single map, building "cities" and smaller towns, outposts, harbors…. All the while toying with the AI set to hardest. But the AI seems to sort of give up, in the very late game. I also think that the maps start looking terrible, when totally deforested, and I also often wall the last remaining forests (and build a temple inside, to represent a sacred grove of sorts). 

Forests were definitely a "managed" resource, and often weren't just cut at will. Forests were some of the most important resources in the ancient world, not just for wood, but also a source of food, medicine, shelter, and even a location for sacred rites and rituals. For example, Caesar cut down massive forests in Gaul, because he knew how important they were to the Gauls.. Deforestation was definitely an issue in the ancient world, but usually, whenever an area gets completely deforested, it leads to the weakening and even collapse of whichever civilization lived there. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Sundiata

[Zeta1127]

Formations, along with citizen-soldiers, are going to be what really sets 0 A.D. apart from AoE2.

[vidnik2]

17 minutes ago, Zeta1127 said:

Formations, along with citizen-soldiers, are going to be what really sets 0 A.D. apart from AoE2.

I hope so.

I wonder, can be pyrogenesis engine modified into Total War clone?

Edited February 4, 2017 by vidnik2

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

[Zeta1127]

One of the ideas floating around is to have the campaigns be somewhat like Total War, there was a demo map that I think is still floating around under Scenarios/Demo Maps, but there is very little work being done on the campaigns at this time beyond triggers. The campaigns, along with the triggers to support them and new civilizations at their strongest from 1 A.D. to 500 A.D. are planned, but not until Part 2, Empires Besieged.

[Servo]

Pretty much Zita. And the different nice looks of the units. Maps are much better too and some setting configurations. I just discovered the scenarios that looks awesome too! Honestly the best game for single player mode I have ever encountered. 

One thing that I don't like with the citizen soldier is it auto gathers and auto soldier and maintain same military specs. Well for simplicity sake it's fine. Strategy wise the more you add behavioral feature the better IMO. 

I will just enjoy my choice:)

[Zeta1127]

Scenario maps were the original maps back in the day, before Random map scripts were developed and eventually many of the Scenario maps were converted to Skirmish maps.

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 minutes ago, Servo said:

 

One thing that I don't like with the citizen soldier is it auto gathers and auto soldier and maintain same military specs. Well for simplicity sake it's fine. Strategy wise the more you add behavioral feature the better IMO. 

I will just enjoy my choice:)

Total war is other kind of game, citizen soldier is a thing part of core of the game, was a real deal in Ancient times. Many kingdoms were City States , even in America ( Mesoamerica) these fighters across the war , g too War without be full time military. the militia.

 

so can be nice have a classic arcade form 

[Servo]

Citizen soldier is really nice what I'm trying to point is if a soldier gathers it should be converted to a maybe a man with less HP, armor, attack etc but with better HP, attack etc and you have to trigger it.  Same as women from 1st phase up to 3rd phase I think it's specs did not improve much. They should be improved like becoming a militia and increasing its attack and HP. I pointed out couple of days ago I think 5 women should be able to kill an archer but not enough to kill an armored unit. If you can improve it to say a militia another strategy can be exploited. 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 minutes ago, Servo said:

Citizen soldier is really nice what I'm trying to point is if a soldier gathers it should be converted to a maybe a man with less HP, armor, attack etc but with better HP, attack etc and you have to trigger it.  Same as women from 1st phase up to 3rd phase I think it's specs did not improve much. They should be improved like becoming a militia and increasing its attack and HP. I pointed out couple of days ago I think 5 women should be able to kill an archer but not enough to kill an armored unit. If you can improve it to say a militia another strategy can be exploited. 

 

No all civilization can do this.

militia from woman, no few peoples can do this. Nor Greek or Romans.

[Desophaeus]

On 02/03/2017 at 5:10 PM, Servo said:

Infinite resources is the most boring game in RTS. I know that because I started playing RoN in infinite resources for maybe 6 months back in 2003. When I transitioned into standard and nomad I saw the beauty's of strategy. They are not accurate that's why I'm still looking for more accurate games like this. But deforestation is just not accurate.  

"Deforestation is not just accurate."

Wrong, flat out wrong... it is actually historically very accurate. The Lebanese Cedar used to grow all over the Levant region (think Syria, Israel, etc between Turkey and Egypt). Now it's barely found in the wild because it was highly valued for its excellent wood quality and the region became the semi-desert that people today are more familiar with.

It's not an isolation happenstance because it did happen in North Africa too, the area around the Atlas mountains were a more fertile land in Ancient times than today.

Same for Italy, it used to be covered in forests but the Romans changed it.

For England, the results of various invanders are pretty interesting. The Romans and the Anglo-Saxons favored different parts of England. One had favored the hilltops, left the lowlands alone, but the other favored the valleys and left the hilltops alone. The patchwork of forests and grasslands formed the famous Downlands on that island, and it was that way until the industrial revolution then of course everything went through yet a lot more changes.

Anyway, in the Ancient times, deforestation was a common occurrence, and it led to soil erosion to the extent where ancient harbors keep filling up with silt in the water. The port cities were often clogged up and then abandoned for a location on the shoreline that now had moved further away from the land throughout decades of cyclical booms and busts.

So the RTS games definitely got this one quite accurate as a people do need to establish a new location in order to continue harvesting lumber, stone or metal.

[Servo]

Deforestation occur but my point is there should be reseeding. Plants and trees just grow because you cannot just eliminate everything so that a previously fertile land can't regrow things. There were no nukes then. Even volcanic effect can't perfectly eliminate  any living things. Don't tell me during those wars they cut all the trees along the way?! Now you're telling me that RTS is accurate that's BS!

i enjoy the game but not playing multi. I toy with the hardest AI and not chopping trees that would disfigure my base. I just chopped the shrubs that gives me wood and relocate my woodcutters far from my CC. I don't even kill animals and chickens  and just gather cows since I can reproduce it. This case I'm forced to choose maps that have treasures and water/fish to gather to at least keep pace with AI. So far I enjoy playing two maps, the Mediterran cove and Caledonia which I could build my empire that will last maybe thousand hours without total denudatiion. I try not to even gather the stone and metal near my original CC and still enjoy the game. 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Servo
Add some more

[Desophaeus]

13 hours ago, Servo said:

Deforestation occur but my point is there should be reseeding. Plants and trees just grow because you cannot just eliminate everything so that a previously fertile land can't regrow things. There were no nukes then. Even volcanic effect can't perfectly eliminate  any living things. Don't tell me during those wars they cut all the trees along the way?! Now you're telling me that RTS is accurate that's BS!

What you choose to do in a game is up to you but facts are facts...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

As for cutting all of the trees in a war, hell yes... in history, armies did laid waste to an entire forest. Look it up in some various wars where mass tree cuttings were done.

Reseeding don't happen overnight, it takes well more than 10 years to get a significant amount of tree growth to occur in nature IF the conditions are favorable. Sometimes it isn't, so the trees either takes even longer to grow up or don't grow back at all.

Even if the conditions are great for growing, 10 year old trees are pretty slim and puny in comparison to the old growth.

Also check out the secondary forest growth vs original forest growth. The biodiversity goes down HARD, with extremely limited number of species making a successful inroad back into the area while the rest doesn't come back.

Let me guess, you haven't been to a place that is growing back after a large harvest of lumber occurred at a specified time in the past.

I promise you... This aspect of trees disappearing in the RTS is very much realistic and does correspond with the history of real life AND does reflect the fact that trees and undergrowth do not simply spring back into existence automatically. Even forests that was specifically replanted might or might not flourish and takes a lot of seasons to get on track back to being an actual forest.

[Lion.Kanzen]

I think he is obsessed with this idea, about Reforesting.