mesoamerican [Design] guide to make Mesoamerican mod.

[LordGood]

This is a conceptual guide for mod, or mods concerning mesoamerica. Aztecs and Inca do fall beyond our timeframe, so do the golden age maya, actually. Maya might be cool for Empires Besieged or Millennium AD p1, Aztec and inca would fit p2

which leaves the Olmec and Zapotec, and maybe Mixtec, though I'm not familiar enough with them yet. 

Zapotecs from what I can tell were more monument/pyramid builders than the Olmec aside from their carved heads, so would be the most logical choice imo 

[Indibil]

Can you give me a specific date so I can start looking up?

[feneur]

500 B.C. to 1 B.C.

[Lion.Kanzen]

The guide is generic bu prefers with our time frame to no include other pre columbian Indians , like Iroquies , Sioux , Incans.

and Mesoamerican Indians preferible.

[Indibil]

Ok so civilizations in america from the preclassic period 2300 b.C. to 100 a.C.

Olmecs: 

They lived in the areas of the states of Tabasco and Veracruz, but other places have evidence of their presence.

1500 b.C. to 400 b.C.

They had 3 main sites San Lorenzo, La venta ( I have visited it ), and Tres Zapotes:

San Lorenzo:

The ancient city of San Lorenzo is considered one of the most important cultural centers of the Olmecs. Some research suggests that this process of development of the city occurred thanks to the enormous amount of water resources. In addition, it is believed that an elite would have dominated local politics, in view of the large number of luxury goods identified in the region.

The splendor and high degree of development of San Lorenzo lost force between the years 950 and 900 BC. Although there is no concrete evidence in this episode of Olmec history, some historians suspect that an internal conflict has fueled this stampede.

La venta: ( Most important )

 

At the same time that San Lorenzo went into visible decline, the city of La Venta became the unifying center of the Olmec culture. In the fourth century BC, this city was of great importance for this civilization. After that, perhaps because of the great climatic changes, this region was uninhabited until the definitive demise of the Olmecs. For many people, La Venta could have been the capital of a possible Olmec empire; It was not the oldest city, but undoubtedly it was the best preserved, and it is possible to generate much of the Olmec style.

Tres zapotes:

Tres Zapotes is a Mesoamerican archaeological site located in the lowlands of the south central coast of the Gulf of Mexico, in Rio Papaloapan plain. Tres Zapotes is sometimes considered the third largest site in Olmec (after La Venta and San Lorenzo), although the Tres Zapotes phase constitutes only a fraction of the history of this place. The oldest occupation occurred at approximately the same time as La Venta, but there was still a post-Olmec occupation. The site is located in the village of Tres Zapotes, near Santiago Tuxtla, Veracruz, on the western edge of the Sierra de los Tuxtlas.

 

 

ART:

Cabezas Olmecas or Olmec heads

25 tons basalt  1300 b.C. to 1000 b.C.

Best details than any other civilization in Mesoamerica.

Each is unique 

17 have been found 3 in Tres Zapotes 4 in La Venta and 10 in San Lorenzo

Warriors

Have African features ( no one knows why )

 

FACTS:

They were the first ones to have a written language in Mesoamerica.

Government: Teocratic, the Governors were an important religious figure.

Religion: Had priests called chamanes; Gods: Feathered Snake ( like other civilizations( Quetzalcóaltl by the aztecs ) ), Rain spirit.

They were one the first civilizations to practice cranial deformations: Deformations were seen as something good and they made some instruments to make your head  "deformer" like other civilizations.

 

They also played ball game ( see previous post about ball game ) 

 

DECLINE:

No exact reason, may had been because of weather or a plague or a drought, etc.

 

OTHER CIVS ILL RESEARCH LATER:

Zapotecs, Mixtecs, and an article about Cuicuilco a circular pyramid that may have been done by the olmecs or the zapotecs ( and its like 4 blocks away from my house, so I think it would be good to talk about it since it lands in the period you said ).

 

 

 

[LordGood]

I'm thinking of adding champion clubmen like the mauryans have for a siege option, considering many mesoamerican civs didnt lay siege, or else give them rams, or both, why not. I like the idea of a "champion priest" but it may be easier to future proof for the next alphas if we just call the battle priest a champion swordsman/spearman that's trainable out of the temple. The ball court can be used to train champions or perhaps... overwhelm with elite citizen soldiers?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ram very similar to AoM Norse siege ram.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[LordGood]

oh goody, new animations!

[Lion.Kanzen]

20 minutes ago, LordGood said:

oh goody, new animations!

But this will be mostly useful, many civs can use this unit instead default ram with wheels.

[Lion.Kanzen]

https://tcmam.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/did-pre-columbian-mesoamericans-use-wheels/

Many speculation about this. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

A real market that have mesomarerican market 

I never see a Mesoamerican table. May be never existed or a chair.

 

Put the things in the ground over a kind of carpet.

 

with this color all Indians from Central America and Mexico uses this things, I have photos from Lencas some descendants of Mayans in my country all uses this kind of fabric.

but there are modern Mayans 

Another image how looks the commerce in the urbes 

 

Similar to modern era days in our countries.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

There are the people the last descendants of Mayans culture who  fought again Spanish Conqueror

Edited December 25, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Lencas

Spoiler

The Lenca are an indigenous people of southwestern Honduras and eastern El Salvador. They once spoke the Lenca language, which is now extinct. In Honduras, the Lenca are the largest indigenous group, with an estimated population of 100,000. El Salvador's Lenca population is estimated at about 37,000.

The pre-Conquest Lenca had frequent contact with various Maya groups as well as other indigenous peoples of Mexico and Central America. The origin of Lenca populations has been a source of ongoing debate amongst anthropologists and historians. It continues to generate research focused on obtaining more archaeological evidence of pre-colonial Lenca. Some scholars have suggested that the Lenca migrated to the region from South America around 3,000 years ago.^[4]

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

@LordGood

Zapotec culture:

They built dams and irrigation canals and developed a very varied agriculture, which at the beginning of the Classic gave sustenance to numerous villages. The Zapotecs were, along with the Maya, the only people of the time who developed a complete system of writing, combining the representation of ideas and that of sounds. This writing has only been partially deciphered.

 

 

Mayans ( Mesoamerican Warfare)

 

 

Figure 1. Various weapons used by the Aztecs:
1. Atlatl (launchers)

2. Tematlatl (sling)

3. Quauholloli (mace)

4. Macuáhuitl ( post classic)

5. Tlahuitolli (bow) and mitl (arrow)
6. Tepuztopilli (spear with obsidian leaves)

Edited December 25, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Mesoamerican warfare 

A millennium before our era, the Olmecs had already developed decks, to which they added javelins, similar to javelins. Then came the slings, circa 900 BC, which allowed to attack from greater distances. For 400 BC Large rectangular shields were already used which, accompanied by spears, effectively contained the impact of mallets and slings.

The next innovation was the use in Teotihuacan of smaller shields, which were used in the forearm and allowed the lancers greater mobility. The lancers were accompanied by other soldiers, with larger rectangular shields, who brandished their atlatl or launchers, suggesting that they were specialized units that supported each other, an organization that required more forces.
As a defense against sharp weapons was needed, around 100 AD. Padded cotton hulls appeared, and for 400 d.C. There were already full armor made of cotton. Not everywhere was this armor used, perhaps because of its high cost, and because in many places it was still fought with spears. In the Maya area they also changed: the cutting surface of the smaller lances was increased, inserting knives, which became weapons that were wielded. In the Mayan zone the weapons were always more varied than in the Central Altiplano.

-------1000 A.D-------

Quote

After the Toltecs we no longer see such weapons, perhaps because from the north the arches were introduced to the center of Mexico, about 1100 AD. The bows and arrows outstripped the slings, and soon new battlefields appeared and dominated the battlefields: wide wooden swords and spears like halberds, all with obsidian knives at both edges. These weapons, more deadly, were complemented with shields and quilted cotton vests, that protected the trunk and also allowed great mobility.

http://relatosguerra.blogspot.com/2014/07/guerra-mesoamerica-tactica-estrategia-ritualidad.html

good source ( Spanish)

but mostly of details are from Aztecs.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Siege Warfare

the Poliorcetica relates to the construction, clash and protection of fortresses and buildings fortified. these seek the contribute to the defence of a position determined, employed commonly for settlements small whose force limited not allows undertake campaigns offensive against its rival more powerful. the that is search is contain or reduce the effort of a force attacker, favoring to the defenders that can be numerically minor. this produces that the attackers is see in the need of use a force proportionally greater for exceed the defenses and to its occupants. but also the fortifications have other jobs besides of the defence, as the to establish points since the which is can deploy garrisons in a area determined. depending of the circumstances and purposes, could emplearse so for end offensive as defensive for the different peoples of Mesoamerica in function of its situation, dimensions and purposes geopolíticos. these considerations are necessary for can understand its use and function; effort that requires study not alone the buildings in yes same, but inside of its context. its use is has given to the long of the practice of the war in mesoamérica. the fortifications permanent more early arose in the lowlands mayas among 800 and 400 a.c. the zapotecs of mount albán, oaxaca (and subsequently places more large, as xochicalco, morelos) built fortifications raising walls and changes partial of ground for count with point since the which send forces for the domain and consolidation of its empire, more that for end defensive (hassig, 2007, p. 38). however, this pattern of conquest would be subsequently left of side. according to hassig (1988): "the systems political based in centers fortificados are inherently limited in size and can and, to weigh of that the defenses contribute to its force, these systems are static and not can adjusted quickly to new threats" (p. 167). empires more large as teotihuacán not recurrían to the fortifications in so were considered unnecessary, but rather to its enormity and power for exercise the domain on the peoples subject. this absence of constructions with end military wearing to the interpretation erroneous of this time as peaceful, when actually sample a trend of the form how is exercised the domain, together with the destruction of fortifications inside of its area of control that they could become a obstacle. the proliferation of cities fortified on peaks high wine since of end of its hegemony (hassig, 2007, p. 38). the features and dimensions variaban considerably depending of the location and of the strategy defensive. some cities possessed walls surrounding, sometimes high and to way of rings concentric that could be built in times in the that not had fight. in other cases, is did constructions defensive when arose a threat; or, to weigh of be unprotected, had structures fortified as the temples main and its precintos adjacent (hassig, 1988, p. 106). during the posclásico, in the center of mexico, the fortifications urban not were usual. this absence, according to hassig (1988), is must to considerations not tactics. besides of represent a great effort defend a perimeter extensive, added to the development of countermeasures for part of the aztecs, the main reason would be the isolation of its fields of cultivation and stores that are vulnerable. so, a defence static the privaba of these elements vital for the maintenance of the city, to difference of a defence active (p. 109). also were the fortresses, located in the top of hills, the that them allowed utilize the height as a obstacle natural and hinder the access. is used tactics as throw stones large for the outstanding. to weigh of be associated to a city, buildings built separate of these and not could involved directly in its protection. even so, could become shelters for the population; besides of house warriors additional. when the battle pitched was unfavourable, the forces defenders  could opt for shelter in its fortifications. of happen this, a force attacker can try burst in the fortress; climb (the which was unusual); or sitiarla. if the attack was very expensive and difficult, is could prepare a long campaign of siege, whenever is tell with the media and supplies for keep. this alternative to the clash direct search impair the support of the resistance. the duration, the cost, the logistics and other factors different to the ability military are the that influence in the result of a place. if the place located not was ready for asedios prolonged, could arrive to yield to the exhaustion through the wear and the lack of food. for this, should isolate the places besieged of any support or provisioning external. the efforts included the allocate units for villages surrounding for avoid that auxiliaran or support to the enemy. this with the end of extenuar the conditions to the internal and achieve the surrender of the fortresses. and in case of not can achieve reverse the defeat, treat of negotiate conditions less damaging with the winners. the tactics of assault to positions fortified went since the construction of stairs for climb the walls; so as derrumbarlos using implements for dig. the armament employee was the used normally in fight, already that not were large machines of siege. the projectiles resulted of great utility to the can launched for over the walls; so as arrows with fire for fire the internal of the fortifications. however, could be given the case of not can keep the siege; so as the threat of be attacked for reinforcements enemies.

If the place was not prepared for prolonged sieges, it could yield to exhaustion through wear and tear and lack of food. For this, they were to isolate the besieged places from any external support or provision. Efforts included allocating units to surrounding villages to prevent them from assisting or supporting the enemy. This in order to extenuate the conditions to the interior and to obtain the surrender of the strengths. And in case you can not manage to reverse the defeat, try to negotiate less damaging conditions with the winners.
The tactics of assault to fortified positions ranged from the construction of ladders to climb the walls; As well as collapsing them using digging/zappers . The armament used was usually used in combat, since there were no large siege machines. The projectiles were of great utility to be able to throw itself over the walls; As well as arrows with fire to ignite the interior of the fortifications. Nevertheless, it could be the case of not being able to maintain the siege; As well as the threat of being attacked by enemy reinforcements.

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Lion.Kanzen]

You can use butterfly design @LordGood

 

https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=dntoT_MdGWsC&pg=PA153&lpg=PA153&dq=mesoamerican+shields+-aztec&source=bl&ots=LXoayRW38c&sig=zMCI1lydEa7kycaP8SqYctLboq4&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB4sijj5DRAhXBJCYKHaISDMcQ6AEIJjAE#v=onepage&q=mesoamerican shields -aztec&f=false

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Lion.Kanzen]

A great timeline.

[Lion.Kanzen]

More design sources.

Fabric style for the market.

Hieroglyph for Zapotecs

Zapotec modern design but still better than Aztec shield.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[Stan`]

Would you mind providing the source links ? Just to know if those are compatible with our license for instance.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Just now, stanislas69 said:

Would you mind providing the source links ? Just to know if those are compatible with our license for instance.

They are for inspiration, not for use in the game.

[Stan`]

Did they use it all on their shields ?