New Faction/Civ: Scytho-Sarmatians - Scythians

[intipablo]

Welcome to my thread on the Scytho-Sarmatians:)

Although I know a lot of people dont want more civs I thought it would be both fun and interesting if I could make a thread for the scythians who I believe are a very worthy civ for being in 0.A.D. Furthermore I think that its possible this should be the Scytho-Sarmatians, since scythians got a lot of influence from the Sarmatians and were eventually defeated by them.

They were also neighbours.

So far this is what ive got.

The Scythians:

Centered on what is now the Crimea, the Scythians founded a rich, powerful empire that survived for several centuries.

The Scythians were remarkable not only for their fighting ability but also for the civilization they produced. They developed a class of wealthy aristocrats who left elaborate graves filled with richly worked articles of gold and other precious materials.

The Sarmatians:

The Sarmatians emerged in the 7th century BC in a region of the steppe to the east of the Don River and south of the Ural Mountains in Eastern Europe. For centuries they lived in relatively peaceful co-existence with their western neighbors the Scythians. Then, in the 3rd century BC, they fought with the Scythians on the Pontic Steppe to the north of The Black Sea. The Sarmatians were to dominate these territories over the next fivet centuries.

Scytho-Sarmatian Army:

The Scythians were feared and admired for their prowess in war and, in particular, for their horsemanship. They were among the earliest people to master the art of riding, and their mobility astonished their neighbors.

The Scythian army was made up of freemen who received no wage other than food and clothing, but who could share in booty on presentation of the head of a slain enemy. Many warriors wore Greek-style bronze helmets and chain-mail jerkins. Their principal weapon was a double-curved bow and trefoil-shaped arrows; their swords were of the Persian type.

As the persians, they wore vivid colored clothes, pants and boots, and helmets-like soft felt caps made of several layers of special layers. These proud warriors strongly influenced their neighbours, to begin with the persians who fought them, and later the biggest diadocus empire, the Seleucid one.

Their power was sufficient to repel the armies of Darius The Great I in 513 BC.

Units:

Infantry

Scythian Axeman:

Class: Axeman? It should be implemented for this civ

The Scythian battleaxe is a famous weapon, usually known as the "Sagaris". This light battleaxe was one-hand manned and primarily intended as the current secondary cavalry weapon. It was cheaper than an axe, and very effective against infantry. When the Scythian are forced to fight on foot, they use this weapon as main weapon.

Scythian Archer:

Class: Archer

Scythian Archers were literally given a bow in the cradle. Skills were a matter of life, no more, no less. Their accuracy, range and speed were unmatched by far.

Cavalry:

These Guys were known for their incredible Cavalry force, for this I think they deserve a couple good cav units.

Scythian Horse Archer:

Class: Cavalry Archer

In the wide steppes, between infinites of blue and green, normad horse archers are uncontestly the masters. They are the result of centuries of warfare, of horsemanship practice. They created the stirrups, in order to have a good sitting base when chaging with their long spear, the kontos. This weapon was probably borrowed in two parts, suspended one side to the stirrup, and when short of missiles, assembled and used with two hands. A large part of the scythian horse archers were lightly protected, using a greek-style leather armor, flexible, with iron or bronze scales, or more currently bone or horn scales, easyer to collect and shaping, hence the light, raw armors described by some authors. This armor was intended to protect their shoulders and breast. They are evidences of such armors, thanks to the famous solokha comb, where scythian wargear are depicted with high detail and are still now an unmatched testimony and one of the most impressive gold artifact ever created in history.

Sarmatian Cataphract:

Class: Cavalry Lancer? If thats a thing, if not Spearman I guess.

Scythian Mounted Huntress/Maiden:

Class: Cavalry Spearman

Unique Buildings:

Graves/Burial Mounds:

(Kurgan)

Use: Not sure yet but it would be interesting to see this in the game

Bonuses:

Mobility: +10% Speed for all military units.

Hope you enjoyed and don't worry i'm gonna keep updating this thread

By the way this is just for fun so please don't be too harsh if you think its useless or incorrect.

Edited January 24, 2016 by intipablo

[Lion.Kanzen]

Is not The first time, but is one of my favorites

http://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17219&hl=scythians

[Phalanx]

I definately agree that this game's "Eastern" selection is weak. This could be good.

[intipablo]

Thanks for your support guys!

Infantry:

Siracae Heavy Spearman:

Class: Spearman

Champion Units:

Scythian Guards: (Heavy foot archers)

Class: Archer

I'm not too sure about this one, they could possibly not be champs, but an upgrade you get in city phase for your archers?

Also I'm thinking of turning the Cataphract into a champ? what do you guys think?

[intipablo]

Map of Scytho-Sarmatia: - 100 BC

More Bonuses:

Gold Traditions:

The Scythians were know for their incredible use of gold. It is common that the Scythians wore golden ornaments and belts. Gold plates were sewn to their garments and gold gleamed from their weapons. The archaeologists are consistently amazed by the amount of gold offerings deposited in the great burial- mounds of the Scythian kings.

- 20% more effective in mining metal/gold. If not there could a great upgrade for this that enhances their mining gold more than other civs.

Siege:

I did find something on the siege of Scythia, but i'm not sure what kind of siege engines they used. For balance purposes the Battering Ram could be added. But for now i haven't found any exact siege weapons for this civ.

Edited January 21, 2016 by intipablo

[intipablo]

Building:

Cavalry Stables: - I was thinking they could have a building like the Persians Cavalry Stables, seeing as they are going to have a lot of cavalry units.

Units:

Sarmatian Mounted Light Javelineer:

Young scytho-Sarmatian horsemen were not all able to practice with efficiency the difficult art of mounted archery. When needed, they could be used as well as javelineers, like their neighbours. It was a common raiding cavalry, but the javelins were probably carryed with a bow aside. As experienced and skilled horsemen, their skirmishing habilities were quite good, inherited by border scythian tribes, which fought many famous skirmisher cavalrymen like the Medians, Massagetae (Alans), and Dahae, and other iranian steppe peoples.

 

Support Unit:

Scythian Women - I was thinking just like Spartans, seeing as a lot of the Scythians and Sarmatians women were warrior, and were seen quite equal in the society to others. And it's been suggested that the Sarmatian Women had to have killed a men or two before marrying, proving they are about as ruthless as the men.

Civ centre units:   

• Scythian Woman
• Siracae Heavy Spearman
• Scythian Archer
• Sarmatian Light Javelineer                          

Barracks Units:

• Scythian Axeman
• Siracae Heavy Spearman
• Scythian Archer

Stables/Cavalry Stables Units:

• Sarmatian Light Javelineer
• Sarmatian Mounted Huntress/Maiden
• Scythian Horse Archer

Fortress/Champion Units(But I don't think Scythians will have Fortresses seeing as they were nomads, so we will have to find something else)  :

• Sarmatian Cataphract
• Scythian Guard
• Battering Ram (i'm looking for scythian siege if not a replacement/something with crush damage, for now this is a substitute)

Edited January 24, 2016 by intipablo

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ok, what about The Marvel and The heroes ?

[intipablo]

8 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Ok, what about The Marvel and The heroes ?

I don't understand what you mean by "The Marvel" But i've been working really hard to try and find something on a hero. I will continue until I find something but for now it's been hard to find someone.

Edited January 24, 2016 by intipablo

[Lion.Kanzen]

34 minutes ago, intipablo said:

I don't understand what you mean by "The Marvel" But i've been working really hard to try and find something on a hero. I will continue until I find something but for now it's been hard to find someone.

The game have a mode where you build a monument and you can win with it after some countdown.

 

all our faction have one, and even have a special building and at last 3 heroes.

[niektb]

We normally call it a 'Wonder', not a Marvel.

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 minutes ago, niektb said:

We normally call it a 'Wonder', not a Marvel.

Right! forgot  the proper word.

[feneur]

I don't want to discourage discussion and interest in other civilizations, but I thought I should make it clear that it is very unlikely that we will add any more civilizations. More civilizations can of course be added in mods, but we don't want to have too high a number as that would mean that we would not be able to make them as good/different/balanced as we wish. 12 is a good number (though I personally think we could have made a better game with fewer civilizations, but this is not my game ), and we don't want to throw way the work already done for these civilizations, but we don't want to add any more.

[intipablo]

10 hours ago, feneur said:

I don't want to discourage discussion and interest in other civilizations, but I thought I should make it clear that it is very unlikely that we will add any more civilizations. More civilizations can of course be added in mods, but we don't want to have too high a number as that would mean that we would not be able to make them as good/different/balanced as we wish. 12 is a good number (though I personally think we could have made a better game with fewer civilizations, but this is not my game ), and we don't want to throw way the work already done for these civilizations, but we don't want to add any more.

I understand this and i'm fine with that, but that still doesn't discourage me to continue this thread, it's fun and interesting.

Also, if your worried about the "uniqueness" of the different civs, the Scytho-Sarmatians would be easily differentiated from any other civ, seeing as they were nomads multiple different elements could be added to the game. But obviously this would be a lot of hard work for you guys and I recognize that you are already working really hard and don't have time for some other civ.

 

14 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

The game have a mode where you build a monument and you can win with it after some countdown.

 

all our faction have one, and even have a special building and at last 3 heroes.

Seeing as they were nomads, finding structures for the Scythians are going to be difficult, considering they're nomads and always pack/unpack. This means that it's going to be really hard for me to find a wonder, if not maybe the Scythians shouldn't have one, we could do it for balance if we have to.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Are nomads, but can evolve and take a new homeland are like terrans and zerg, in starcfraft , fast training units, both sex , more weaker, but very like Persians but more flexible than a Empire faction and have more bonus, don't need a territory but have a cart to gather like Mauryan elephant worker. You can rush easily with them may be train two units but weaker, you can improved but this mean lost training speed.

[intipablo]

Scythian Neapolis/fortress (possible Wonder/fortress):

 

[Phalanx]

Not trying to be argumentative, Feneur, but a lot of people attribute the massive sucess of AOK over the other AOE titles was its faction diversity. The other games had way less factions, and were less popular, and it increases the game's replayablilty, because there are more factions to understand/learn to master effectively/conquer.  That's just my 2 cents worth, and I definately agree that the devs should focus on stabilizing the old factions, and engine problems before moving on to fully implement new factions.

 

About the Sythian champions, I think that the Kataphractoi should be replaced with like, a Guard horse archer or something. It might get confusing with two identical champions for two different factions ( and I'm a tad territorial about the Seleucid roster.....    )

Edited January 25, 2016 by SeleucidKing

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 minutes ago, SeleucidKing said:

Not trying to be argumentative, Feneur, but a lot of people attribute the massive sucess of AOK over the other AOE titles was its faction diversity. The other games had way less factions, and were less popular, and it increases the game's replayablilty, because there are more factions to understand/learn to master effectively/conquer.  That's just my 2 cents worth, and I definately agree that the devs should focus on stabilizing the old factions, and engine problems before moving on to fully implement new factions.

 

About the Sythian champions, I think that the Kataphractoi should be replaced with like, a Guard horse archer or something. It might get confusing with two identical champions for two different factions ( and I'm a tad territorial about the Seleucid roster.....    )

In the other discussion ( Lusitan faction) I bring a old concept discussed by us me, other guys and Mythos Ruler, the idea consist in when is finished the last part of the game, add to both parts  Free download content  like AoK have or forgotten and African kingdoms was. That was my proposition and many agree, because is an good alternative to modding.

[niektb]

Just now, SeleucidKing said:

Not trying to be argumentative, Feneur, but a lot of people attribute the massive sucess of AOK over the other AOE titles was its faction diversity. The other games had way less factions, and were less popular, and it increases the game's replayablilty, because there are more factions to understand/learn to master effectively/conquer.  That's just my 2 cents worth, and I definately agree that the devs should focus on stabilizing the old factions, and engine problems before moving on to fully implement new factions.

[...]

As a side note: Empire Earth 1 was a big succes too and it had exactly 1 civilization roster (the only difference between factions were bonuses)

[Phalanx]

59 minutes ago, niektb said:

As a side note: Empire Earth 1 was a big succes too and it had exactly 1 civilization roster (the only difference between factions were bonuses)

Aye, but the factions bonuses arent as dramatic as Empire Earth.

[intipablo]

4 hours ago, SeleucidKing said:

About the Sythian champions, I think that the Kataphractoi should be replaced with like, a Guard horse archer or something. It might get confusing with two identical champions for two different factions ( and I'm a tad territorial about the Seleucid roster.....    )

I personally think the Cataphracts are better as champs for this civ, because I want to have a melee/cav champ, 2 archer champs would make everyone using because lately so many people just make ranged archers. But if you believe it's interfering with the Seleucids then sure i'll find something else.

[Phalanx]

2 hours ago, intipablo said:

I personally think the Cataphracts are better as champs for this civ, because I want to have a melee/cav champ, 2 archer champs would make everyone using because lately so many people just make ranged archers. But if you believe it's interfering with the Seleucids then sure i'll find something else.

 

Oh pff! I'm just being slightly picky.  It's a tad weird though, to have the same champ for two factions.  And maybe I'm not looking in the right spots, but I cannot find mention of the Sythian Cataphract.  The only thing I can find is the Sythian Lancer (the western name for it).  It was basically a suped up Companion Cav, capable of devastating charges, but still lighter and more mobile than the Kataphractoi.  That might fit the faction better, a lighter but more powerful shock cav as opposed to a slower, more expensive variant.

[intipablo]

3 minutes ago, SeleucidKing said:

 

Oh pff! I'm just being slightly picky.  It's a tad weird though, to have the same champ for two factions.  And maybe I'm not looking in the right spots, but I cannot find mention of the Sythian Cataphract.  The only thing I can find is the Sythian Lancer (the western name for it).  It was basically a suped up Companion Cav, capable of devastating charges, but still lighter and more mobile than the Kataphractoi.  That might fit the faction better, a lighter but more powerful shock cav as opposed to a slower, more expensive variant.

It's a Sarmatian Cataphract, Scythians used lighter armour I'm pretty sure. I think your idea would fit the Scythians better as they were known for their Mobility and speed. So Cataphracts would be unrealistic for just Scythians

Edited January 26, 2016 by intipablo

[intipablo]

Scythian Hero:

Idanthyrsus II

I don't know if we should have this as a hero but I can't find much else.

Idanthyrsus was the King who drove Darius I of Persia out of Scythian lands using Guerilla warfare. He never really confronted him with a front on battle, but he did not retreat. He would leave nothing behind for the Persians who were constantly harassed by little skirmishers and pillage. They eventually had to move, leaving a lot of dead and wounded behind.

I couldn't find any exact pictures on the king but this is how a Scythian King would look:

 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, intipablo said:

It's a Sarmatian Cataphract, Scythians used lighter armour I'm pretty sure. I think your idea would fit the Scythians better as they were known for their Mobility and speed. So Cataphracts would be unrealistic for just Scythians

Yes is very like to Asians ( Chinese armor)

[intipablo]

4 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Yes is very like to Asians ( Chinese armor)

Yea and Very colourful

 

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by intipablo