Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[chaosislife]

Markets and Trade routes will make the economy "renewable" enough, IMHO. All of you guys are forgetting about that.

So why don't we just skip resource gathering altogether and just have players magically spawn whatever they need from a market? And while we're at it lets just give them a "win game" button they can press so they don't have do do silly things like building an army?

Markets are boring.

[Kimball]

So why don't we just skip resource gathering altogether and just have players magically spawn whatever they need from a market? And while we're at it lets just give them a "win game" button they can press so they don't have do do silly things like building an army?

Markets are boring.

He means trading. You can't just get free resources from the market. You have to have something to get something in return.

[chaosislife]

Eh, that still leaves the problem of where to get the resources you need to trade for other resources if the map is empty. Also if the only resource you have a good supply of is food and the market is based on trading resources you have for resources others have, and everyone has a steady supply of food then the value of food is going to be pretty much nothing. Tho i suppose we're probably talking about an aokesque market system which still leaves you with needing huge amounts of food to trade for a much smaller amount of wood,metal, or stone. Does bring up an interesting idea tho, trying to wipe out your enemies using only women.I'm not saying markets aren't a good idea at all, honestly I'd rather have both markets as well as tree and (maybe) critter regrowth and recycling stone and metal. I think what I really want to avoid is having the game end because no one can produce anymore units to fight or defend with. The way I play is largely defensive so I could very easily outlast everyone else if they don't manage to send a force sufficiently large enough to completely destroy me in about five minutes.

Edited June 29, 2011 by chaosislife

[Mythos_Ruler]

He means trading. You can't just get free resources from the market. You have to have something to get something in return.

Yes, indeed. Plus we plan on a bartering system much different than AOE's gold-based economy. Also, our Trade routes will be different in that you can set which resource you get for each trip. The old way was to just base everything on gold.

I think what I really want to avoid is having the game end because no one can produce anymore units to fight or defend with

Limitations drive strategy innovation and creativity.

[chaosislife]

Limitations drive strategy innovation and creativity.

That can be difficult in a game as games often have rules like perhaps women not being able to attack which means that no matter how much you might want to send an army of women to fight their women, you just can't. I also doubt I'll be able to defeat them by sneaking someone in to toss a corpse in their well.

[Rasunadon]

That can be difficult in a game as games often have rules like perhaps women not being able to attack which means that no matter how much you might want to send an army of women to fight their women, you just can't. I also doubt I'll be able to defeat them by sneaking someone in to toss a corpse in their well.

Of course you can attack your enemies only with women. But I'm not sure if such attack will be successful.

Dogs are better.

[Mythos_Ruler]

That can be difficult in a game as games often have rules like perhaps women not being able to attack which means that no matter how much you might want to send an army of women to fight their women, you just can't. I also doubt I'll be able to defeat them by sneaking someone in to toss a corpse in their well.

Sure, but what does that have to do with having "endless" games like what you guys want? At any rate, a lot of what you guys are saying is based on Alpha balancing. It is likely that the amount of resources on a map will change dramatically after we add technologies, bartering, trading, civ bonuses, and true economic balancing. We will also have bottlenecks called "Phases" similar to "Ages" that slow the progression of the game down.

[chaosislife]

Of course you can attack your enemies only with women. But I'm not sure if such attack will be successful.

Dogs are better.

no......haha......comment.....bwhahahahaha.

[kingsman142]

I have several suggestions.

1. When you order a group of soldiers to attack a building, let them stay in their formation instead of spreading all out and letting the horses get there first.

2. Let players be able to select more units at a time. I found you can only select so many units at one time, so I had to make like 3 groups of soldiers for an attack.

3. Make a government (kings and queens, leaders, councils, depending on the different civilizations)

4. Change the attack style of computer players, because whenever I play on a team with another computer, there's always another team/teams that continually attack my team and barely attack other teams

5. Add a library or research center so you can advance in technology

6. Add buttons so you can communicate with computer players on your team (such as their style: attacking, balanced, defending)

[historic_bruno]

I have several suggestions.

1. When you order a group of soldiers to attack a building, let them stay in their formation instead of spreading all out and letting the horses get there first.

2. Let players be able to select more units at a time. I found you can only select so many units at one time, so I had to make like 3 groups of soldiers for an attack.

3. Make a government (kings and queens, leaders, councils, depending on the different civilizations)

4. Change the attack style of computer players, because whenever I play on a team with another computer, there's always another team/teams that continually attack my team and barely attack other teams

5. Add a library or research center so you can advance in technology

6. Add buttons so you can communicate with computer players on your team (such as their style: attacking, balanced, defending)

1. I agree with this, it's likely just a bug (they should move in formation to the target and then spread out).

2. I've just raised the limit from 64 to 200, for the next release, we can test that and see how it works.

3. Not sure if this fits in the concept of 0AD as a RTS game, but we do have heroes and we'll have diplomacy eventually which sort of implies having leaders (the player performs all these roles).

4. Yeah the AIs are still in their early stages and will need improvements

5. Technologies and research are planned.

6. I like this idea too, something like Age of Kings' chat commands (31-attack an enemy now, 34-build a navy, etc.), only more explicit.

[oshron]

this reminds me, i heard a long time ago that "technology points" were planned and would be the only thing used to research technology. is this still planned?

if it is, i would personally recommend NOT doing that, as that just adds a resource that can be perfectly managed with the other resources that are going to be included anyway

[Mythos_Ruler]

this reminds me, i heard a long time ago that "technology points" were planned and would be the only thing used to research technology. is this still planned?

if it is, i would personally recommend NOT doing that, as that just adds a resource that can be perfectly managed with the other resources that are going to be included anyway

Wat?

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I actually agree that using "technology points" to research technologies is very logical. After all, how does one learn about iron by a combination of farming, woodcutting, and mining? Sid Meier's Civilization hit it right at this point, and an RTS version of this would be epic.

[SMST]

I actually agree that using "technology points" to research technologies is very logical. After all, how does one learn about iron by a combination of farming, woodcutting, and mining? Sid Meier's Civilization hit it right at this point, and an RTS version of this would be epic.

This.

@oshron:

You might confuse this with my plans for a mod project, where I indeed intend to introduce "Knowledge" as a ressource for research.

[Sebovzeoueb]

Sid Meier's Civilization hit it right at this point, and an RTS version of this would be epic.

I found Rise of Nations to be pretty close to being an RTS version of Civilization.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Well, I respect Rise of Nations for what it is, but things like the Hellenes, the masters of hoplite warfare, did not have a single advantage compared to others in this game, and that the Romans use legionnaires that look like 1st. century soldiers up until the time of gunpowder. I respect it, but problems like these deter me from full appreciation of it.

[oshron]

Wat?

have you ever played Empire Earth 2, mythosruler? in that game, there was a special "technology" resource that could only be acquired by putting people in temples or universities, and there was a separate interface for researching technology, and NO technology was unique. i remember reading a long time ago that something like this was, at least at one point, planned as an aspect of 0ad. personally, i disagree with such a notion since the other resources that will be included no matter what (food, metal, stone, wood) can cover the uses of "technology points" quite easily

basically, will 0ad's technology research functions be more like AOK and pretty much every other reputable historic-period RTS, or will it be like EE2?

This.

@oshron:

You might confuse this with my plans for a mod project, where I indeed intend to introduce "Knowledge" as a ressource for research.

aaah. thanks for clearing that up

[satchitb]

2. Let players be able to select more units at a time. I found you can only select so many units at one time, so I had to make like 3 groups of soldiers for an attack.

YES. AoK had this major drawback where you could only select some 40 units at a time. I'm glad 0AD will get over this.

[chaosislife]

What about a speed bonus for rams and maybe helepolis units? Something where they gain in speed based on how many units are garrisoned inside? It makes sense to me that a ram at least would be able to move faster if there were six people inside pushing it instead of just the one it presumably comes with. I also think a garrison bonus to a rams attack would be reasonable since six people could throw the timber forward with more force than one.

[Mythos_Ruler]

What about a speed bonus for rams and maybe helepolis units? Something where they gain in speed based on how many units are garrisoned inside? It makes sense to me that a ram at least would be able to move faster if there were six people inside pushing it instead of just the one it presumably comes with. I also think a garrison bonus to a rams attack would be reasonable since six people could throw the timber forward with more force than one.

This seems logical and probably something we'd implement. Same would go for ships.

[chaosislife]

This seems logical and probably something we'd implement. Same would go for ships.

I don't know if it would make as much sense for ships, I would assume that a ship would have all of the rowers it needed out of the dock. Also the passengers aren't naval folks so they might be too busy with seasickness and complaining and generally annoying the poor crew. It probably would make sense for the ships to get a drop in speed based on having more passengers tho. Don't know that anyone would want that.

[oshron]

This seems logical and probably something we'd implement. Same would go for ships.

just for the record, im pretty sure i recommended something along these lines a while ago to help justify why ships are capable of attack but (presumably) wont be able to fire while moving: the only units which appear on the deck would be units garrisoned on it that dont come with the ship, and when the ship stops to fire, there's a slight delay as units come out of the ship(perhaps unrealistically overlapping models with units on the deck, but what can ya do? *shrug*)and begin firing arrows, throwing spears, etc. simultaneously, they are supported by any dedicated ranged soldiers on the deck. these soldiers coming out of the ship would be the crew which mans the ship.

there's even precedent for this, in AOK with the trebuchets which had to pack themselves up to move and unpack to fire. the main difference is that the pack-unpack thing would all happen automatically here: as soon as a ship is ordered to attack and gets within range, it starts to "unpack" and as soon as the battle is over, it "packs up" again

incidentally, and this is just a question, what will be the actual armament of ships? will it be arrows? ballista bolts? boulders? i just realized those three things i listed were unintentially put in alphabetical order

[Mythos_Ruler]

and when the ship stops to fire

I think ideally they wouldn't have to stop, park, and fire like a land catapult would have to. They should be able to fire missiles as the ship is moving.

I don't know if it would make as much sense for ships, I would assume that a ship would have all of the rowers it needed out of the dock. Also the passengers aren't naval folks so they might be too busy with seasickness and complaining and generally annoying the poor crew. It probably would make sense for the ships to get a drop in speed based on having more passengers tho. Don't know that anyone would want that.

It's a video game. It would be nice to have additional bonuses for garrisoning units aboard.

[chaosislife]

It's a video game. It would be nice to have additional bonuses for garrisoning units aboard.

Heh, we could gripe about how the towers shouldn't get garrison bonuses to their ranged fire for having melee units inside too.

Edited July 8, 2011 by chaosislife

[satchitb]

Just tried Alpha 6. It's looking (and especially sounding) awesome. Just one thing that's been nagging me since Alpha 3: why is the mouse sensitivity so low? It's a real chore moving the mouse around the screen, both in-game and especially at the menu.

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