Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[oshron]

here's another idea for maps and editor tools: Sparse Forest. basically, a relatively thick forest that will restrict the movement of some of the larger units, but infantry and cavalry can move through it. i think this adds not only a really cool and good-looking set of terrain-something-or-other to the map but also an element of realism. we know that in real life, forests can be crossed relatively easily, but some are easier to navigate than others. regular forests would represent very thick forests that are the norm in RTS games while the Sparse Forest would represent...well, forests that arent as thick. now, this COULD be done by just individually placing the trees, but i think it would be better and easier to make a scenario editor brush tool that places the forests like that instead

[feneur]

Hmm, not sure whether we will have totally inaccessible forests, but as you can read more about on this page in the Design Document: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/List:_E...e:_Flora:_Trees the idea is indeed that some units will be able to pass through the forest while others won't. A brush to paint forests rather than just individual trees is planned, but other things will have a higher priority for quite some time as far as I can tell (though some individual programmer might find it interesting to implement, and since letting people do what interests them is one of the few currencies we have to reward team members in we're hardly going to stop someone from implementing it) as it's possible to place individual trees.

[oshron]

im familiar with RTS games, and if 0ad will generally be like that other RTSs like AOM and AOK, forests will be impassable for most units, no? the idea of "Sparse Forest" is just to have a forest brush tool exactly like any other but with a lower density of trees, like only a third or fourth as many as the regular

Edited April 16, 2010 by oshron

[SMST]

Well i planted a little forest in the Scenario editor and got this:

Click

I made that by placing trees individually and i found out that units can actually move through the trees while the atmosphere of a real forest comes through because the shadows are covering the ground.

One thing i did not like about the other editors i worked with (AoE 1+2, EE1) was the rather un-natural look of the forests. When i used the forest brush tool, the trees were just painted on the map like if it was a tree nursery and no wild grown forest. Here in 0 a.d., i achieved a much better look with no brush tool at all. (for none is implemented)

Edited April 17, 2010 by SMST

[Jeru]

Good job, SMST! I look forward to seeing more of your screenshots and other fan art.

[SMST]

Good job, SMST! I look forward to seeing more of your screenshots and other fan art.

Thanks.

More coming soon - as you can see, there is a small Greek trading post on that map.

[oshron]

yes! thats EXACTLY what i was thinking of as "sparse forest"! its kind of like the forest level of COD3, it has alot of ambiance to it. if there were the effect of falling leaves, it would be PERFECT!

[Aldandil]

Holy giant picture, Batman! It turns the page crazy! It is a pretty picture, though.

The ground textures you guys have made are excellent. I agree that fallen leaves, plus underbrush, would make it look more realistic, but it still looks very good the way it is now. And in densely settled areas that have been farmed for generations, I imagine a mixture of forests, fields, and tree clumps that would range from completely wild to completely cultivated.

But speaking of the flora in the design document, cacti are not native to the Old World, so there shouldn't be any cactus in there (except as editor-only eye candy). All but one cactus genus in the Old World* were introduced by humans. They've escaped into the wild, but they're introduced exotic species, not native. Before the Europeans invaded the Americas, they wouldn't be growing in Europe, North Africa, or West Asia.

*There's one genus, Rhipsalis, in tropical Africa and Sri Lanka that may have been introduced by birds instead of by humans, or may be native to the Old World, but it wouldn't be in the Mediterranean area anyway. Plus it's an epiphyte that grows in the branches of trees, not on the ground.

The cactus family by Edward F. Anderson, 2001 (see p. 39: "With the exception of Rhipsalis baccifera, cacti are strictly New World natives.")

Rhipsalis distribution

Opuntia distribution and origin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cactus

Edited April 17, 2010 by Aldandil

[oshron]

maybe the cactus are for outright fiction scenarios and are editor only?

[SMST]

Holy giant picture, Batman! It turns the page crazy! It is a pretty picture, though.

I linked it so that it cannot tear the screen apart on lower resolutions.

The ground textures you guys have made are excellent. I agree that fallen leaves, plus underbrush, would make it look more realistic, but it still looks very good the way it is now. And in densely settled areas that have been farmed for generations, I imagine a mixture of forests, fields, and tree clumps that would range from completely wild to completely cultivated.

Yeah, the textures are really amazing and are, unlike in some other RTS editors, free combinable because of the great texture blending.

Underbush is a question of placing some, there are nice plant eyecandy objects. But this being an Mediterranean forest, there will be less underbush than in a temperate region.

But speaking of the flora in the design document, cacti are not native to the Old World, so there shouldn't be any cactus in there (except as editor-only eye candy). All but one cactus genus in the Old World* were introduced by humans. They've escaped into the wild, but they're introduced exotic species, not native. Before the Europeans invaded the Americas, they wouldn't be growing in Europe, North Africa, or West Asia.

Do you see a cactus anywhere on the picture?

If so, it was not my intention to place some.

Edited April 17, 2010 by SMST

[Aldandil]

No, not in your picture, in the design document that lists all the plant objects they want available at "release." Cacti are listed as though a European plant, but they're not and in the time periods being used, they wouldn't be growing in Europe, North Africa, or West Asia.

Although that huge pink elephant in your picture is kinda strange.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Aldandil

[Mythos_Ruler]

yeah, cacti are anachronistic, so we won't include those in random maps. Would still be nice to have them in the editor though.

[Mythos_Ruler]

THIS would make an excellent "passable" forest.

[SMST]

Although that huge pink elephant in your picture is kinda strange.

^^

THIS would make an excellent "passable" forest.

Cool. I have to practice, i see.

Edited April 18, 2010 by SMST

[oshron]

that passable forest that you posted mythos_ruler DOES look very much like a mediterranean environment

[Mythos_Ruler]

that passable forest that you posted mythos_ruler DOES look very much like a mediterranean environment

Thnx m8.

What I would do is use a nice base terrain, like that grass terrain, then use blotches of the more shrubby terrain for accents. Then load those blotches with bushes and grass for a nice 3D effect.

[wraitii]

Hi, new poster ( French, to make things more lame ), and I just read about the last 30 pages of this topic.

I must say passable forests seems like a really great idea. I even think that to normal "units", that is basic soldiers or stuff like that ( small human shaped stuff ), any forest should be passable ( or it would be so dense that you just couldn't get in at that time (0ad) by any mean, even for wood cutting purpose).

I know you guys are quite far in the coding process ( and particularly the pathfinding stuff, since going through a forest would juste be a nightmare to code, if you want units to avoid trees ), but that really would make this game awesome ( it's already, get me right, but boy that would just rock ).

I'm pretty sure I played a game where some units could go through forests. Must have been scouts in RoN. RoN was such an innovative RTS ( and an amazing game imo ), I'm still amazed that it has left no real legacy.

[Jeru]

Hi wraitii! We don't think new posters or French people are necessarily lamer than the general population. Welcome!

[UberSauce]

hello everyone

I have read I all can on this game and it seems to have awesome potential and the fact that these designers/developers are volunteers is aweinspiring to game fanatics and developers alike. i have also never played the pre alpha(waiting for finished version).

the only thing I would suggest is to have Jews as a Civilization. the reason I say this is because they are a huge part of this time period and they are realtivly up todate with culture and tech at the games time period (because of all the times they have been conquered). I also suggest this because every other game thats focusses on ancient and classical civilizations such as yours have all the big factions but the jews. in my opinion they are big enough to be a faction but just small enough to be theft in the shadows of all the others. thus making your game to be one of very few to use the Jews

-UberSauce-

Edited May 4, 2010 by UberSauce

[plumo]

Euh honestly do you think the Jews would make an interesting addition? Can you put them next to Persians, Hellenes and Romans? I think not.

I do hope however that wildfiregames or mod makers implement the idea of minor civilizations that can be controlled by building a Proconsul's palace. Than the jews could be added. The idea is totally similar to that of AOE 3.

[UberSauce]

yes i think you could with their underdog like backstory but i will say that in overall power and conquest terms they are not as high ranked as say the romans and if it is not in the final version i think the jews would make a killer patch or update or expansion

[SMST]

There was a mention for Jew faction somewhere else in this forums. They would, however, fit better into the context of 0 A.D. 2, which (as far as i know) plays in the period from 0 - 500 A.D., while Part 1 covers 500 BC -0. And the Jews were particullary strong at that time (rule of Herodes and later, the Bar Kochba uprising and the destroying of the Temple of Jerusalem)

[Jeru]

The way I see it, Judah/Judaea/Palestine was always a backwater to the Seleucids and the Romans, more important for its location than for any economic reasons. Also the Jews are more famous today for their enormous spiritual and cultural impact on Western civilization via Christianity than for any military conquests. Today we find it difficult to imagine Europe before Judeo-Christian morality, with Spartan babies left on hilltops to die and Roman gladiators killed by wild animals in arenas to entertain the crowd.

I'm not a huge expert on Roman times, but I know the Jews would rise up against the Seleucids when it was politically opportune in terms of internal feuds within the Seleucid dynasty, or when other small peoples under the Seleucid thumb were rising up at the same time.

Having said all that, the Jews certainly have an interesting story to tell within the 0 A.D. time frame. I think a Jewish mod/campaign would be an awesome add on for 0 A.D. once we take care of civilizations with some greater military prowess. I would love to work on a campaign about the Maccabees or about Josephus Flavius.

Edited May 5, 2010 by Jeru

[UberSauce]

!In fact now that i think of it!

if Wild Fire Games were to make a expansion or some sort of civilization bonus pack download thing then i think they should do it on Biblical nations!

Such as.....

Israel and Judea(Jews)

Egypt

Babylonians

etc...

i think this would just kick butt!

Edited May 6, 2010 by UberSauce

[Kimball]

@ UberSauce

We've taken careful preventative measures to ensure that we have not prejudiced or insulted any beliefs system by implementing any representation of religious figures. Though your idea may sound like an excellent sequel to the original game, it may be better suited for a modding team to undertake to avoid any allegations against our efforts. Consider that even recently (2 weeks ago), Muslims have attacked the creators of South Park for portraying "Muhammad", who was shown wearing a full-body bear suit and proper precautions were taken to ensure that it never actually disrespected the figure while poking fun at the media's inability to portray him without retributions. Unreasonable? Most definitely. But we as a team would prefer to remain without any political or religious affiliation as to not alienate any fans or potential contributors.