Ways to differentiate gameplay for each faction

[Lion.Kanzen]

I personally think it would be better to explore differentiating them through leveraging mechanics other than tech buildings and units. That more than anything else would change the feel of the civilisation. I think this would also be a good opportunity to work in some of the mechanics that are a little lacking if it can be done. Having only Celts utilise the loot mechanic or something like that, for example, alters the feel more.

There's only so many differences in (sub)type from you can add from the the same group before they feel like differences in size. Eventually you need a different, different type.

I don't know enough about the history of these civilisations to know what is quintessential about each one so I don't actually have anything to offer beyond that advice.

Edit: I should've explained what I mean by difference in type and size. Difference in size is when something gets bigger/stronger or more numerous etc. E.g an arcade game has more monster to kill with each level. Differences in type is just that. Something new. A new monster to kill. Unique techs buildings units etc are all differences in type. However, when you put so many in they become closer to the feel of a difference in size because they ARE, just of a higher up type. They're still differences in type but of a more subtle flavour.

I'm saying define what is characteristic of each civilisation in a few words and try to bring it alive through other avenues than units etc. What makes Sparta ? Elite warriors? Make Sparta the only ones to gain xp. What about Persia? Trade? Give them a trading system that nobody else has.

I agree total y with this, the game is based in choose, the big great technologies tree , can custom the game, player style , bonus, special units, abilities.

Unblock champion units and lock other. Build special buildings etc. military reform it's good way to do it that.

The player can enjoy each phase. The game shows like as a each maps( RM, Skirmish and some scenarios) represents a new colony.

Like a colony needs social evolution and military protection.

[plumo]

We should take a look at how Rome II gives unique bonuses to civs.

Carthage:

Naval Shipyard: give it a ranged attack (put an onager or ballista on top of the roop as an upgrade).

Gauls:

Excellent goldsmiths (mining bonus), good shock cavalry.

Iberians:

What about giving them the feature to walk through forests? I think there was a game (Praetorians?) that let you do that. Maybe at reduced speed, and archery penalites. (but it might conflict with pathfinder etc.)

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Currently cannot all units can walk through forests? Perhaps the Gauls and Britons could have a slightly weaker ambush system in which they can hide while motionless but not when they move.

[plumo]

Currently cannot all units can walk through forests? Perhaps the Gauls and Britons could have a slightly weaker ambush system in which they can hide while motionless but not when they move.

I meant a dense forest (with no pathing through)...

[Prodigal Son]

Those three articles could provide great ideas on improving the successor states' armies both on authenticity and gameplay:

• Seleucids
• Macedon
• Ptolemies

They have quite a lot of detail on unit types and equipment, overall and periodic strategies, balance between professional, levy and mercenary troops, navies etc and they seem very accurate to me.

Edit: I've read them two or three days ago, but some highlights on top of my head and suggestions accordingly (trying not to repeat my suggestions on page 1):

Seleucids:

• Catafracts could be a late game non-champion unit or even better an upgrade of the citizen spear cavalry, as the article suggests that they where an update of the line heavy cavalry while companions/agema remained the elite standing cavalry. Seems valid to me since their numbers at the battle of Magnesia are much larger than those of the royal cavalry.
• They actually relied more on settlers than the Ptolemies and far less on mercenaries, besides Cretan Archers and Galatians. They could have a Galatian cavalry unit if Ptolemies get an infantry one, for variety. Wikipedia has the Galatian cavalry as the Seleucid cataphracts in Magnesia but that seems wrong in many ways.

Macedon:

• Cavalry declines, phalanx grows bigger (and heavier later on), many new unit types, but mostly relied on mercenaries, besides in times of dire need, to spare the now limited locals who have been drained by constant wars and immigration to the east and Egypt.
• Could give them the Thracian Black Cloak unit at the Civ Center (makes a nice combo of mercenaries/vassal levies with Thessalians and Agrianians) and move the phalanx only to the barracks, to simulate a mercenary army until "major" war times. This could also make for an early Philip scenario, with only cavalry and light troops before the foundation of the phalanx.
• Later companions, or "sacred squadron" seem to be a heavy skirmishing cavalry instead of a lancer force, probably to preserve the now small Macedonian nobility. They probably weren't that warlike and brave anymore either, at Pydna they didn't even try to fight, probably preferring to stay as a subdued but ruling class instead of risking death.
• So the true elite of late Macedon are the royal peltasts/agema a phalanx force able to fight in other roles as well.
• Thyreophoroi could be added, as well as kestros slingers, a special late slinger unit that could even be made a champion for some variety.
• All of the above might not be that valid if Macedon in game represents Alexandrian Macedon, but I think it's more interesting to have the faction span a bit of a time period, like it's the case with most other factions.

Ptolemies:

• They relied too much on mercenaries. I know it's a Carthage trait for the game but we could consider something similar for them.
• Added to that or instead of it they could have two versions of the settler camp, one "Hellenistic Military Colony" with Greek/Macedonian/Thracian/Galatian units and one "Native Military Colony" with Machimoi/Ethiopian/Nubian/Nabatean units. Then the Seleucids could get the Hellenistic one as well with some extra tech for reduced training time to simulate them having more settlers. Likewise, the Ptolemies could get an equivalent tech for the native one (or it could even become a general successor trait with a thracian one for macedonians)
• Then the ptolemies could train machimoi phalanx on the native and grecomacedonian phalanx on the hellinistic one. Town center could get some hellenistic light troops like thyreophoroi (mercenaries?), citizen levy cavalry etc.
• They seem to have thorakites/romanized troops as well, and in their very late years even a largish force of roman mercenaries/deserters who also played part in the court matters.

Other:

• Perhaps another way of differentiation could be done with the hero auras. I haven't paid much attention to the ones proposed so far but they could be somewhat faction speciffic.
• Maybe each hero could have two auras, one factional and one personal.
• Successor heroes, known for their recklessness and heroic cavalry charges could have something according to that.
• Roman heroes could have something more generic, buffing all their troops or units in formation.
• Celtic heroes could buff attack, charge or movement speed of their melee units.
• Iberian heroes could buff their skirmishers.
• For something completely different, Greeks could get an ability representing the oracle of Delphi. Offering a (set?) small amount of metal would give a random prediction, either encouraging or demoralizing troops (+/- attack or attack speed) for a period of time. A bigger amount of money could bribe the oracle for an encouraging prediction. Could be at the Temple.
• The Threatron, and perhaps other cultural buildings for other civs (arena, hippodrome, stadium, druidic temple etc), could get a festival/games/races ability. At some cost, it could provide increased work rate for a while after activated, simulating happeness. Perhaps this could be altered/expanded into autogathering a "culture points" resource, together with temples, wonders and civic centers which could slowly lead to a cultural victory under a special victory condition, instead of just copy-pasting the Age Of Empires wonder mechanic.
• (Out of place) Besides elephants, chariots should get damage frenzy as well.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Mega Mania]

Romans

They have the Army Camp, which is an interesting structure, as it can be built within enemy territory. Same goes for their Siege Walls. So, how can we make these things more useful and used more by good players?

Marian Reforms: Can we include this somehow? Becomes available in City Phase and once researched all infantry turn into Marian Legionnaires (champion infantry)?

Could we have the Romans start each map with a free Temple of Vesta and then give it some kind of bonus (like greatly increased unit and building stats around it)? Maybe then it is a game-loser for the Roman player if it is destroyed.

The Romans seems to lack auxiliaries like skirmishers, archers and cavalry when they achieve Marian reforms.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Those three articles could provide great ideas on improving the successor states' armies both on authenticity and gameplay:

• Seleucids
• Macedon
• Ptolemies

They have quite a lot of detail on unit types and equipment, overall and periodic strategies, balance between professional, levy and mercenary troops, navies etc and they seem very accurate to me.

Edit: I've read them two or three days ago, but some highlights on top of my head and suggestions accordingly (trying not to repeat my suggestions on page 1):

Yeah, looks like the Seleucids should have the Military Settlement idea instead of the Ptolemies. And then the Seleucid heroes can have the ability to found new Civic Centers. With the Military Settlements (MS), they can expand quickly, but since MSs are weaker than CCs, they are more vulnerable to attack, making the periphery of the Seleucid Empire weak, but the core strong.

Ptolemies, maybe just go with 2 barracks, one for "home grown" Greek and Egyptian troops, and one for Mercenary troops (call this a "Mercenary Camp", which is super cheap to build because it is a bunch of tents, but the units are somewhat expensive).

[Prodigal Son]

Yeah, looks like the Seleucids should have the Military Settlement idea instead of the Ptolemies. And then the Seleucid heroes can have the ability to found new Civic Centers. With the Military Settlements (MS), they can expand quickly, but since MSs are weaker than CCs, they are more vulnerable to attack, making the periphery of the Seleucid Empire weak, but the core strong.

Ptolemies, maybe just go with 2 barracks, one for "home grown" Greek and Egyptian troops, and one for Mercenary troops (call this a "Mercenary Camp", which is super cheap to build because it is a bunch of tents, but the units are somewhat expensive).

Could work this way. I like the idea of Seleucids (or successor in general) founding Civ Centers only with their heroes, it's quite close to reality. Another idea that came to mind is giving all factions a mercenary/auxiliary camp, but limited to 1, which will train all available mercenaries each faction had. Then the Carthaginians (and Ptolemies?) could have the ability to build more mercenary camps to represent their focus. Or Ptolemies could have Greek + Native + Mercenary barracks.

Military Settlements could have another weakness instead, since one of their main points was actually to be a form of loyal defenders at the founded spot and they had quite capable military units. Units produced there could be able to work only on farms (the land granted for their services, as this should be their only occupation besides combat). So the player would either have a portion of his farms on newer, less defended/frontline regions, or have to move other units there to work on more resources. Might be a bit confusing though with some citizen soldiers not being able to work on any resource like the rest.

[SDM]

I meant a dense forest (with no pathing through)...

To add to the idea, why not make it so that a certain civilization (in this case, Iberians) have units that can ghost through trees by ignoring collision detection? Sort of like how Star Craft miners ignore collision. Perhaps that in order to balance this, can only attack when they're not colliding with trees.

Another idea would be to borrow from the two most well-known MOBAs. Both League of Legends and DOTA have bushes that grant the players invisibility, which would work well for ambushes (and it's a huge gameplay element). This idea is less faction-specific than the one above, however.

Finally, simply have the Iberians be stealthed when near trees. I believe that Warcraft III's Night Elves and LOTR BFME2 Elves did something to this effect. I'm no programmer, but this sounds like the most conservative option available.

[Prodigal Son]

To add to the idea, why not make it so that a certain civilization (in this case, Iberians) have units that can ghost through trees by ignoring collision detection? Sort of like how Star Craft miners ignore collision. Perhaps that in order to balance this, can only attack when they're not colliding with trees.

Another idea would be to borrow from the two most well-known MOBAs. Both League of Legends and DOTA have bushes that grant the players invisibility, which would work well for ambushes (and it's a huge gameplay element). This idea is less faction-specific than the one above, however.

Finally, simply have the Iberians be stealthed when near trees. I believe that Warcraft III's Night Elves and LOTR BFME2 Elves did something to this effect. I'm no programmer, but this sounds like the most conservative option available.

The bushes idea seems the most interesting to me on this. And perhaps Iberians could get some short of better cover or bigger damage bonus when ambushing. Warcraft actually hides night elf, bandit and other units in the night, as long as they remain idle. So implementing a day and night circle could provide an alternative ambush mechanic this way.

[SDM]

Oh, I thought it was implemented when near trees like in BMFE2. Since day/night cycle is not scheduled to be in this release, I think stealth near trees would be better (and more faction-specific than stealth when idle at night, which I think should be unit-specific.)

Edit: Possibly have it so that Iberians can be stealthed when idle depending on geography may work to emphasize ambush placements. For example, when Iberians are near a mountain or valley or forested terrain, they will be automatically stealthed when not in combat and not moving. Does the terrain store any other information besides height at this point in development?

Edited December 23, 2013 by SDM

[Lion.Kanzen]

This my idea how can be an ambush. its a some gameplay from praetorians

obviously the enemy don't see these units in the grass. mauy be we can do it this in the forest and sand, snow.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen