Carthaginian Embassy?

[tribalbeat]

During a match playing as the Carthaginians, I felt that their unit count was extremely high in relation to the other civilizations. Instead of offering all three embassies at the second phase, I feel that it would be more interesting if during the second and third phases, the player may only choose one type of embassy to build. This would help differentiate the embassy units a bit more and also create some new strategies and playstyles in terms of knowing one's opponent and pushing for the appropriate embassy. What are your thoughts?

[Unarmed]

During a match playing as the Carthaginians, I felt that their unit count was extremely high in relation to the other civilizations. Instead of offering all three embassies at the second phase, I feel that it would be more interesting if during the second and third phases, the player may only choose one type of embassy to build. This would help differentiate the embassy units a bit more and also create some new strategies and playstyles in terms of knowing one's opponent and pushing for the appropriate embassy. What are your thoughts?

In the suggestion thread I talked about having different units through choosing with Mythos. We talked how the Irish wolfhound could be implemented; the mastiff would be better at x, while the Irish wolfhound would be better at y.

This is one of those examples in which unit choosing (like the upgrades in the mill: you can choose from two but pick only one) would be great.

The units available only in scenarios are also potentials.

One issue with unit choosing is balance. Though it is my opinion that you do not need to exclude units to achieve this balance, only in extreme cases.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Unarmed

[Mythos_Ruler]

I like the idea, tribalbeat. I am wondering if it could be implemented with the current code without having to add any new code. I can vaguely see how it could be done already, perhaps similar to how you can only have 1 hero alive at any time (just use the same code), but then you could probably only have 1 embassy at a time. I think ideally what should happen is that once you build one of the embassies, you could then build any number of them as long as they are the same kind (Iberian, Celtic, Italian), which I think would need new code. Unless we just want the player to be able to build just 1, in which case the current code may suffice. We'd need to give them some train time techs to compensate for the fact there is only 1 though.

[sanderd17]

Can't you work with technologies? Like in the Carthagian CC, you have to choose between a technology to enable the Gallic, Italiote or Iberian embassy? They can be very cheap, it's enough if they exclude each other.

It would need a technology triplet, but that won't change too much in the code I guess.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Can't you work with technologies? Like in the Carthagian CC, you have to choose between a technology to enable the Gallic, Italiote or Iberian embassy? They can be very cheap, it's enough if they exclude each other.

It would need a technology triplet, but that won't change too much in the code I guess.

It would indeed need to be a triplet, which the game and UI does not support right now. I was trying to think of a way to implement it without having to write new code. The only way would be to allow the player to build 1 embassy and 1 embassy only (like a hero). If it gets destroyed, then the player can build a new one (again, like a hero).

[Unarmed]

It would indeed need to be a triplet, which the game and UI does not support right now. I was trying to think of a way to implement it without having to write new code. The only way would be to allow the player to build 1 embassy and 1 embassy only (like a hero). If it gets destroyed, then the player can build a new one (again, like a hero).

Seems good like a indefinite placeholder. Maybe people like it that much that the triplet is not needed.

Though it could be exploited somewhat. Let's say I want units from the Roman embassy and Iberian embassy, I make units from the Roman, delete the Roman embassy and build the Iberian. I have no idea if that's worth doing, but I guess this is worth mentioning.

I personally would prefer the triplet system hence I said indefinite placeholder.

Is there a way to combine the hero limit and the double system?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Seems good like a indefinite placeholder. Maybe people like it that much that the triplet is not needed.

Though it could be exploited somewhat. Let's say I want units from the Roman embassy and Iberian embassy, I make units from the Roman, delete the Roman embassy and build the Iberian. I have no idea if that's worth doing, but I guess this is worth mentioning.

That's okay I guess, because they have to spend the time and resources to build the new embassy.

Is there a way to combine the hero limit and the double system?

In what way?

[Unarmed]

In what way?

Ok, like this:

-Pick A nothing happens (the upgrade would say: choose from x and y instead or something like that)

-Pick B you choose Iberian

If you choose B, it works like the hero limit, if you pick A nothing happens

When you have choosen you can choose again:

-Pick C you choose Celtic

-Pick D you choose Roman

However these and the Iberian upgrade work like the hero limit, only one available. So if you picked Iberian in the first double, you can't choose Celtic or Roman. Celtic and Roman can just be choosen like a regular double upgrade choice, but you must have picked A which does nothing (and is free).

No idea if this would actually work.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Unarmed

[plumo]

I've mentioned this before:

I'd like to have only 1 embassy where you 'research' a treaty with one of three possible cultures (Italian, Celtic, Iberian,...)

After the research has finished, you unlock special units and techs

Also: the building's visual outlook changes depending on the civ (unique props, shields,...).

[Unarmed]

I've mentioned this before:

I'd like to have only 1 embassy where you 'research' a treaty with one of three possible cultures (Italian, Celtic, Iberian,...)

After the research has finished, you unlock special units and techs

Also: the building's visual outlook changes depending on the civ (unique props, shields,...).

I agree with you.

Do you also mean the embassy would be Carthagian looking? (but with unique props, shields reflecting the choice you made)

Because I would agree with that too. The current embassies seem kind of out of place. I mean if I were to make a embassy in Ancient times, it could possibly have some cultural influences from my own culture, but since there would be a different climate, different or other available materials and such it would look very much like the buildings in the city I would be in. (but Celtics on a map in North-Africa still look Celtic! Yeah I know but let's ignore that. One reason being that changing that is not doable let alone worth it.)

The current embassy buildings could always be used for scenarios, but for the factions that they belong to.

I do not see it as a issue, but this is my personal preference.

EDIT: Though it seems kind of a trouble to make a new Carthagian embassy.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Unarmed

[plumo]

I'd make a Carthage-looking building, with different props and shields.

And if that isn't distinctive enough, maybe the roof can hint at the culture.

[Pureon]

We already have a generic Carthaginian embassy building model (not buildable), but I actually like having the 3 themed buildings as it adds a bit of variety to the civ. Otherwise all the civs are the same and it gets boring.

[Unarmed]

We already have a generic Carthaginian embassy building model (not buildable), but I actually like having the 3 themed buildings as it adds a bit of variety to the civ. Otherwise all the civs are the same and it gets boring.

Fair point. Hmmm. How could we please everybody?

I'm fine with the themed buildings but I feel like they are a bit too obvious. But yeah I don't want to force developers into making yet another thing that would be distinct enough to add variety, but fitting enough for the Carthagians.

But yeah it's just a preference. I am fine with the distinct buildings. Anybody knows if my hero limit + choice idea is do-able?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Well, I committed a rough approximation for the embassies of the general idea of only choosing 1. Update and play around with it.

[Lion.Kanzen]

And that why I put this in my fb fan page, nice work. Now we had a justification to give them the Blacksmith.

[Arelatensis]

Now, when it is done, it may be seen all cons of such decision. This faction became very weak, and wood recourses dependent.

What is also historically not right. Carthaginians civilization and its army always was gold dependent. Mercenaries were (from sixth century BCE) main part of Carthaginian army, especially it

they were iberinas or celtiberians. Numidian cavalry and Maures compounded only allied (or also mercenary) auxiliary contingents.

The Libyans, the Berber natives of North Africa, directly controlled by Carthage, didn't considered as combat unit, they were involved mostly at building

and engineering work. So starting from the war with Massilia (end VI-th century), until the Fall of Carthage (146) Iberia (Spain)

was an inexhaustible treasury of warriors as long as the money lasted which they received as pay.

So my suggestion Carthaginians must have at least two embassies - one Iberian (iberian warriors ere not so strong in gameplay), and one

by choice: Italiot or Gallic (Celtic). It were desirable so, that number of Iberian were unlimited. What is Gauls and Italics about,

they changed each other in Carthaginians army. In Sicilian wars V-IV centuries, Carthaginians prefer to hair Italiots, in Punic, when

Rome controlled Italy - Gauls. Italiots and Celts are similar units - heavy infantry and melee cavalry.

Sacred band, the members of which, even in the camp never drank except from goblets of silver and of gold, now in development version they do not

demand gold. I think that it is not true.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Sctually the resources in game is metal ( to represent gold, silver, and iron) , and in last changes you only choose one of them.

[oshron]

i'd say the best course of action would be to give the player three options for Village to Town advancement where they pick a different "Alliance" to advance through (what i mean is that you have three separate advancement techs available on the Civic Center's menu instead of clicking the "Advance" button and being given three different options). for example, instead of the tech being just "Advance to Town Phase", you have "Ally with Iberians", etc. and that gives you their respective embassy for that phase. when you advance to the City Phase, all three embassies are enabled by default, including whichever one you chose to begin with (though that wouldnt really matter because it's already been enabled)

[Lion.Kanzen]

I love that idea you talk the idea from AoE Asian Dynasties? is that idea l love/like but complex for now XD. but is good give some tribute to AOE series. even expansions. but why only carthage? im not great fan of them.

[oshron]

i never played AOE3

and just because you personally don't like the Carthaginian faction doesn't mean we should sacrifice their uniqueness

[Lion.Kanzen]

If is not great thing as AOK but give whole new features, but sacrifice gameplay for gameplay and lost the soul of concept. But was the first in saga to use abilities to some units.