Historically based article contributor

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Hello. As I have been in the forum for a number of months, I see no relevant reason to make a formal introduction. My reason for making a topic is to offer my services for the addition and improvement of the history articles in 0 A.D. Although I will not be able to work extremely quickly I will do my upmost to cite all sources I draw the information from and write articles of good quality. I cannot assure you that I will be capable of writing articles for every culture due to limitations in resources, yet I should be able to write accounts of the Hellenic nations, Romans, Persians, and Carthaginians.

I will need advice on what I do with my articles once I have completed them: generally pertaining to the place I would post them at.

Is there any article that you would specifically want me to work on?

[Sighvatr]

It would be nice to find other sources of information than the Europa Barbarum mod, that specifies the military troops in the ptolemaic kingdom.

[kosmo]

That's pretty nice!

You can see what types of units/structures lack history articles in the manual (see below, the emphasized part is the history article).

I'm unsure if the history article is finally used somewhere ingame?

If not, you could add sources by using latex syntax, so e.g.

"Bla bla bla \cite{freidberg}" and add a textfile, that contains something like

@book{freidberg,

author={Freidberg, Jeffrey P.},

sortname={Freidberg, Jeffrey P.},

title={Plasma physics and fusion energy},

publisher={Cambridge University Press},

year={2007},

location={Cambridge},

edition={1.}

}

Then the source would be listed in the easy-to-manage reference section of the manual.

Btw: Can someone look into trac? I can't login, so I can't upload the manual-script/-texfiles... :/

Manual.pdf

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

@ Sigvatr I will generally be referring to the ancient histories that I have (Herodotus, Xenophon, Thucydides, Polybius and a number of others so no worries there.

@ Kosmo, how would that apply to ancient historians who never had their books published while they were alive?

[kosmo]

Hm, good question, I'd say use something along:

@book{polybios,

author={Polybios},

editor={Lenelotte Möller}

sortname={Polybios},

title={Der Aufstieg Roms -- Historien},

publisher={marixverlag},

year={2010},

location={Wiesbaden},

edition={1.}

}

This works for me, I used the edition of Polybios I have here.

In the reference section it appears as:

[6] Polybios. Der Aufstieg Roms – Historien. Hrsg. von Lenelotte

Möller. 1. Aufl. Wiesbaden: marixverlag, 2010

Sorry for the non-english text, but it works^^

[feneur]

Btw: Can someone look into trac? I can't login, so I can't upload the manual-script/-texfiles... :/

You should be able to now. There are issues from time to time as there are a lot of spam accounts clogging up the user records and slowing the software, there might be other issues as well, but afaik that's the main one.

how would that apply to ancient historians who never had their books published while they were alive?

It should be pretty straight-forward as you evidently will have to get the information from a certain publication of their works, just use that information. And don't be afraid to use more recent sources as well, if you only use information from 0 A.D.'s time period you run the risk of getting more into mythical territory I'm afraid. They do have the benefit of being close in time to the events they describe, but the concepts of validating sources and other fact checking weren't as widespread as today

I've PMed our current history lead who will help out so you don't e.g. work on the same things at the same time etc. I'll check with him if he's able to get an article written on the Mauryans which we can post around the time of the release of Alpha 13, otherwise that would be a good task to get done. The option of working on the historical texts for the units/buildings to include in the game is definitely a good one as well, so feel free to do that. There are a couple of units/buildings which doesn't have history information yet, so that would be the ideal starting point. Please check both what's in the game files already (see the structures and unit folders hre: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/browser/ps/trunk/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates ) and the Design Document (http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Design_Document#PlayableCivilizations) in this case though as some information might be in one place, but not the other.

As for where to post the stuff you create I suggest in this topic for now, then someone from the team can post it where it's relevant. That's the best for both you and the team as we don't have to go through some kind of application process to try and find out if you are a reliable individual who can be trusted with edit access to e.g. the web site/the game SVN, and you don't have to wait until after such a process before you can start contributing

[kosmo]

Polybios and Thukydides are at least relatively reliable afaik, the other ones I don't know.

Trac still doesn't work for me

[zoot]

Trac still doesn't work for me

Have you reset your password? If so, try using your original password.

[kosmo]

Yes, I have resetted it, because I don't remember my original password

[zoot]

Yes, I have resetted it, because I don't remember my original password

Oh. You're screwed I believe the "reset password" thingy is out of order.

[feneur]

Yes, I have resetted it, because I don't remember my original password

If you still can't log in please PM me with your Trac username and the password you would like and I'll change it manually.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Very good. I will begin composing an article on Pericles for a start. It will most likely take perhaps a couple weeks to draft, but I will do my best to make it as good as possible. Do you prefer it being in the Pages format or would you prefer me to alter it to a PDF document.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

[kosmo]

I think a simple .txt file would suffice for this, pdf could be problematic (i guess) to export from if some special unicode-characters are used. The layout for the manual will be done by LaTeX automatically

[feneur]

Very good. I will begin composing an article on Pericles for a start. It will most likely take perhaps a couple weeks to draft, but I will do my best to make it as good as possible. Do you prefer it being in the Pages format or would you prefer me to alter it to a PDF document.

I think a simple .txt file would suffice for this, pdf could be problematic (i guess) to export from if some special unicode-characters are used. The layout for the manual will be done by LaTeX automatically

A txt file or just plain text in a post here would be very much enough indeed (and any images you might want to include you could attach to the post/link to the image, note that it should have permissions which are relevant to those the game uses: CC-BY-SA). For the game's unit info and the manual it's really not needed to write more than 2-5 sentences, and definitely rather two than 5. Feel free to write a fuller piece as well though, we don't have a feature article on Pericles on the site, so it would be nice to have something to put there as well

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I have finished the first draft of the biographical work on Pericles. It is rather long, yet it would be perhaps preferable if historical articles pertaining to heroes are that long. Please feel free to critique it. Any relevant feedback is appreciated.

Pericles (495 B.C.- 429 B.C.)

Pericles was one of the leading politicians who brought Athens to the position of a major power of the known world. Born in 495 B.C. to Xanthippus, an aristocrat, Pericles was at early adulthood cautious of entangling himself in politics, fearing ostracism. (Plutarch 7) Instead, he chose to serve in the Athenian military, but with time his major political rivals were not about to resist his ambitions, Themistocles was exiled, Aristides dead, and Kimon abroad in military campaigns. Since Kimon was heavily supported by the aristocrats, Pericles chose to gain the commoners’ favour. (Plutarch 9) This choice brought him great control over the Athenian government; soon afterward Kimon fell in combat at Cyprus, bringing Pericles more power. Pericles led Athens to its most glorious times and was responsible for the building of many impressive public structures. His persuasive oratory indeed was one of the leading causes of Athenian entrance into the Peloponnesian War, and while he lived, it generally was quite evenly balanced for both sides. (Plutarch 29) His foresight in battle prevented many ruinous Athenian defeats, making his death in 429 B.C. from the plague, which then ravaged Athens, a major turning point in the war.

@book{plutarch greek lives,

author={Plutarch},

editor={Robin Waterfield}

sortname={Plutarch},

title={Pericles},

publisher={Oxford University Press},

year={2008}

location={New York},

edition={2.}

}

Edited March 10, 2013 by Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

[feneur]

Some overall comments: For an article about Pericles this is a fine length, but it's far too long for a small in-game/manual description, so for that only the absolutely most relevant pieces should be included. That can remain to be done later though, as long as we have some base text we're halfway there (Especially since we haven't decided where/how to display the shorter information in the in-game GUI, so the exact length we can include in the end is impossible to say for sure at the moment.) Also, it would be nice to have more than one source for the information where possible.

Pericles, one of the greatest statesmen and orators ever alive, was one of the leading politicians who brought Athens to the position of a major world power.

Please turn down the enthusiasm just a notch or two We're trying to be reasonably historically correct and objective as far as possible, so subjectiveness should be avoided as much as possible. The latter part of this sentence is fine to me (leading politician and a major world power are hard to argue with - though maybe use another world than "world" as they hardly were powerful on a global scale, maybe use "the known world" or something instead), but the first part is not ("one of the greatest statesmen and orators ever alive" is very much a subjective point of view).

His foresight in battle saved prevented many ruinous Athenian defeats,

Just remove "saved" and it will be a fine sentence.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

I have done the alterations you requested. I will soon begin work on a history article about Spartan houses. I will do my best with citing multiple sources in the future. For Pericles I only cited Plutarch since the other historians I posess writings of do not write about him very extensively. Thank you for the helpful feedback.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Here is an article on Spartan houses.

Spartan houses were known to be particularly simple because of two laws of Lycurgus. The first house law enforced that the roofs only be crafted with an axe, and the second law made doors only constructed with tools as advanced as saws. (Plutarch 13) These generally made Spartans more likely to furnish their homes with plain furniture to match their homes.

@book{plutarch greek lives,

author={Plutarch},

editor={Robin Waterfield}

sortname={Plutarch},

title={Lycurgus},

publisher={Oxford University Press},

year={2008}

location={New York},

edition={2.}

}

I appreciate all relevant criticism which can be given. I have made the article a great deal shorter than the biography due to the general request.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

[Mythos_Ruler]

Here is an article on Spartan houses.

Spartan houses were known to be particularly simple because of two laws of Lycurgus. The first enforced that the roofs only be crafted with an axe, and the second made doors only constructed with saws as tools. (Plutarch 13) These generally made Spartans more likely to furnish their homes with plain furniture to match their homes.

@book{plutarch greek lives,

author={Plutarch},

editor={Robin Waterfield}

sortname={Plutarch},

title={Lycurgus},

publisher={Oxford University Press},

year={2008}

location={New York},

edition={2.}

}

I appreciate all relevant criticism which can be given. I have made the article a great deal shorter than the biography due to the general request.

Not a bad blurb! Can I put it into the Spartans house entity as-is? It's good enough for a simple thing like a house, while more complex topics would get longer articles. But since the entity blurbs don't have an attribution system, I would amend your text to "According to Plutarch, Spartan houses were..." Is that acceptable?

[feneur]

Overall I like it, however, there's something about:

and the second made doors only constructed with saws as tools.

The second made the doors what? I would assume you mean only allowed doors constructed with saws as tools, but either way I think that part of that sentence needs some work.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Sorry that I have not replied for literal months. I have been quite busy with school courses for a good while and have not felt motivated enough to write another article. Now to answer the questions.

Not a bad blurb! Can I put it into the Spartans house entity as-is? It's good enough for a simple thing like a house, while more complex topics would get longer articles. But since the entity blurbs don't have an attribution system, I would amend your text to "According to Plutarch, Spartan houses were..." Is that acceptable?

Thank you for the supportive words. I always found Lycurgus's law code to be one of the most interesting sort as of yet. Feel free to change it as you wish.

The second made the doors what? I would assume you mean only allowed doors constructed with saws as tools, but either way I think that part of that sentence needs some work.

(Face Palm!) Sloppy me. I have revised to what I consider a more acceptable form. I will try to be a bit more careful next time.

I will in the next few months attempt to acheive the daunting task of writing a biography on Iphikrates. While I do have a few ancient sources that mention him, would any of you be able to refer me to a reliable biography on him? Thanks again. Expect another article in a couple months.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Here is an article on Skiritae.

Skiritae were some of the most reliable alien soldiers serving in the Spartan military. They always had the honor of remaining on the left flank of a Spartan phalanx and (Thucydides 5.67) were deployed to face the any problem which could come to bear the army. (Xenophon 4.2.1-4)

The source material for Thucydides is from his work The History of the Peloponnesian War and the one by Xenophon is from his work, The Education of Cyrus. I will write up citations when I find the time if they are considered necessary. Sorry for the delay. Maybe I will tackle Iphikrates later.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

@book{History of the Peloponnesian War,
author={Thucydides},
editor={Rex Warner}
sortname={Thucydides},
title={History of the Peloponnesian War},
publisher={Penguin Classics},
year={1972},
location={United States of America},
edition={2.}
}

There is the citation for the Thucydides source. The other will be a bit trickier since I used an online copy, as I possess none, and it lacks the necessary material I need for it. On another note, I feel a bit ignored in this thread, hearing little praise or criticism for my work and only one of them has been published in the history section. Even though some of the articles may be brief, I have gone to great lengths to recover information from ancient sources and if really only 33.333% of my work is going to be published, I have very little motivation to continue. Thanks for all your past feedback though.

[Josh]

Sorry that we haven't gotten these snippets published. Even though I'm no historian I'll try to see that all of them are used. Your contributions are definitely valued and I think the lack of criticism is not so much because of low interest but because few team members have the credentials or knowledge to criticize these.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Hi Thorfinn. I've added your Skiritae blurb to their entity in the game. Please feel free to post more if you still have motivation.