(Bronze Age) Civ: Hebrews/ Israelites

[Thanduel]

Ok, well you convinced me that is OK to use direct ancient sources, but how could we discern what things to put and what things to put not based on the OT. If we base the hebrews on the OT, then their monks would have the hability of splitting the waters and their soldiers the hability of destroying walls dancing.

I would exclude miraculous stuff like the splitting of the red sea, or destruction of the walls of Jericho from the general civ. It might be interesting to give them heros with powers based off some of the miraculous events in the OT. However the things you mention would not have been expected of a levitical priest. The OT sees those events as incredible miraculous events. Levitical priests had a much less miraculous job of making sacrifices on behalf of the people, looking after the temple etc. One of the defining features of the Israelite nation was its temple be it Solomons temple or the 2nd temple. Their way of life centred around God and the temple that should probably the defining feature of the civ. Off the top of my head one potential unit would be a stone slinger a very common weapon mentioned a number of times in the OT for which much archaeological evidence has been found.

[Lion.Kanzen]

we are stopped, we need volunteers and civ designers and two programmers. Or wait to Beta or beyond.

[idanwin]

We haven't stopped, we were just busy ;-) But it would be nice to have more volunteers

[Lion.Kanzen]

If you now recruit programmers you in your college can meet programers. But alternate gameplay is a As in the hand.

The other matter is wait to main team do some textures for Egyptians XD.

The guy that are very excited doing props for your Eye Candy list. We can give a chance.

Edit 1: the nickname of the guy is Bloc.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[NoMolester]

The other day i volunteered myself but received no answer

I'm a programmer. However i do not have any modding experience and do not know what tools you're using.

I could help as i said before, and you may also help me with my zombie mod, just four or five zombie units nothing really complicated.

and perhaps some eyecandy like devoured corpses and stuff.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Remember idawin is working with conversion try to contact him. For now I'm too busy and I'm not programming only graphic designer and creative XD.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[NoMolester]

So, Idawin, where do i sign in?

[The Crooked Philosopher]

Here's a link that may help: http://watchmenservices.info/Books%20on%20Judaism%20and%20the%20History%20of%20the%20Jewish%20People/Richard_A._Gabriel-The_Military_History_of_Ancient_Israel-Praeger_Publishers(2003).pdf

[Lion.Kanzen]

Here's a link that may help: http://watchmenservi...shers(2003).pdf

Thank you now you are in credits.

[Zophim]

Another good resource I found recently at my school library is the book Ancient Israel: Its Life and Institutions by Roland de Vaux. The book is part of the Biblical Resource Series, and I am finding it to be an excellent source of information for depicting the Hebrew civilization.

[Zophim]

Just as a heads up, I've already begun the planning stages of the Israelite design document(s). Over the following weeks/months, as I have time, I intend to start putting out further info. If I may say so, I have a fair amount of knowledge of the ancient Hebrews and their history, and, as a Christian, I have read the Holy Scriptures a good deal. I've been tentatively thinking that we might ought to divide the Israelite civilization into three different periods: the Conquest and the Judges, the United Monarchy, and the Divided Kingdom of Israel and Judah (similar to how Empires Ascendant is planning to depict the Ptolemies and Seleucids along with their parent Macedonian civ). At some point further down the road, we could decide whether to depict just one, two, or all three of these proposed Hebrew phases. Also, I will need to further investigate other contributors' Bronze Age design docs in order to aid in deciding what hero units to include vs. theirs, civ balance issues, etc.

I am excited to help bring the ancient Hebrews to the game.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Zophim

[Zophim]

Update: For now, I am working on the design document for the United Monarchy Israelites, spanning the eighty-odd years of David and Solomon's reigns (10th century BC).

Here is a map of David's kingdom from Wikimedia Commons, found at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Davids-kingdom.jpg. It is a CC BY 2.0 licensed image, uploaded by Electionworld, from an original upload by Amoruso, derived from an image courtesy of Rusty Russell < rusty (at) wanned.net > from Rusty, Bible History Online, Oct. 30, 2006.

Here is a map of Solomon's kingdom, found at http://www.preceptaustin.org/KingdomSolomon.jpg, courtesy of Penn State.

I have decided on the pomegranate as the best Israelite symbol to use in the civ emblem. The pomegranate is fairly prominent in the Hebrew Old Testament, and incorporated artistically into both the Temple of Solomon and the priestly garments. Its rich symbolism in that era makes it, I think, a prime candidate for depiction on the civ emblem.

Here are some supporting sources:

http://www.israelstudies.umd.edu/AboutOurLogo.html

11992-12626-1-PB.pdf

The PDF file is from https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/StudiaAntiqua/article/view/11992/11932

Here is a link to an image of an ivory pomegranate, one which was possibly used in Solomon's temple.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Ivory_Pomegranate_Inscription_%283%29.jpg

Here are the units I envision (details and sources are planned for later posts):

Citizen Infantry

Gadite Swordsman

Judahite Spearman (CC unit)

Zebulunite Skirmisher

Benjamite Archer

Judahite Slinger (CC unit)

Citizen Cavalry

Manassite Horseman (CC unit, javelin)

Support Units

Israelite Woman

Priest of Yahweh (morale/attack booster)

Son of the Prophets (healer)

Merchant (donkey with cart)

Maritime/Naval

Fishing Boat

Phoenician Merchantman

Phoenician Light Warship

Siege

Battering Ram (simple, team-wielded)

Champion Units

Benjamite Slinger

Philistine Mercenary Swordsman

Israelite Mighty Man (spear)

Canaanite Heavy Chariot (javelin)

Egyptian Light Chariot (bow)

Heroes

David son of Jesse

Benaiah son of Jehoiada

Solomon son of David

Edited October 15, 2013 by Zophim

[Mega Mania]

Actually they have mastered chariotry during the time of King David, then why do they need mercenaries from Egypt and Canaan?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Some time ago I had a single problem what is the wonder of Israelites that I can destroy in a videogame.?

[Zophim]

Actually they have mastered chariotry during the time of King David, then why do they need mercenaries from Egypt and Canaan?

In the chariot unit names, I meant "Egyptian" and "Canaanite" in the sense of the Achaemenid Persians having "Babylonian" scythed chariots: "Babylonian" as in the manufacturing, style, and/or usage origin, not as in the personnel makeup. Sorry if the names are a bit misleading; I wanted a concise way to differentiate the two kinds of chariots.

Some time ago I had a single problem what is the wonder of Israelites that I can destroy in a videogame.?

I like Thorfinn's idea from earlier this year:

Actually, the Israelites did construct temples. For reference, read 1 Samuel's first chapters. The tabernacle can be a sort of wonder built in the village phase which is mobile and can later be upgraded to Solomon's temple.

Except I would introduce the mobile Tabernacle in town phase. The player would have the option of either building the Tabernacle in town phase and upgrading to the Temple in city phase, or else holding off until city phase to build the Temple, at which point the Tabernacle would become unavailable.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Zophim

[Mega Mania]

I think we need a more generic Hebrew word for both chariot.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Good we follow thorfin idea, is good idea do a pool for this matter.

[newcivs]

I see a Documental About that Conquest, im not Faith man, but i believe how fall the walls see the video

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u16HOh0F-QI

i think: the scientists sayd "The Hebrews need some units under the walls, digging, we gan put that the units "disappear", and the walls lose health!

[newcivs]

Update: For now, I am working on the design document for the United Monarchy Israelites, spanning the eighty-odd years of David and Solomon's reigns (10th century BC).

Here is a map of David's kingdom from Wikimedia Commons, found at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Davids-kingdom.jpg. It is a CC BY 2.0 licensed image, uploaded by Electionworld, from an original upload by Amoruso, derived from an image courtesy of Rusty Russell < rusty (at) wanned.net > from Rusty, Bible History Online, Oct. 30, 2006.

Here is a map of Solomon's kingdom, found at http://www.preceptaustin.org/KingdomSolomon.jpg, courtesy of Penn State.

I have decided on the pomegranate as the best Israelite symbol to use in the civ emblem. The pomegranate is fairly prominent in the Hebrew Old Testament, and incorporated artistically into both the Temple of Solomon and the priestly garments. Its rich symbolism in that era makes it, I think, a prime candidate for depiction on the civ emblem.

Here are some supporting sources:

http://www.israelstudies.umd.edu/AboutOurLogo.html

11992-12626-1-PB.pdf

The PDF file is from https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/StudiaAntiqua/article/view/11992/11932

Here is a link to an image of an ivory pomegranate, one which was possibly used in Solomon's temple.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Ivory_Pomegranate_Inscription_%283%29.jpg

Here are the units I envision (details and sources are planned for later posts):

Citizen Infantry

Gadite Swordsman

Judahite Spearman (CC unit)

Zebulunite Skirmisher

Benjamite Archer

Judahite Slinger (CC unit)

Citizen Cavalry

Manassite Horseman (CC unit, javelin)

Support Units

Israelite Woman

Priest of Yahweh (morale/attack booster)

Son of the Prophets (healer)

Merchant (donkey with cart)

Maritime/Naval

Fishing Boat

Phoenician Merchantman

Phoenician Light Warship

Siege

Battering Ram (simple, team-wielded)

Champion Units

Benjamite Slinger

Philistine Mercenary Swordsman

Israelite Mighty Man (spear)

Canaanite Heavy Chariot (javelin)

Egyptian Light Chariot (bow)

Heroes

David son of Jesse

Benaiah son of Jehoiada

Solomon son of David

I think that the "juedean slingers" need some bonuses, beaceuse "in the slingers world", was of the better forces in the world, as to the balearic slinger!, this units is the "champion slinger" of Ptolomeaic empire!, fight without protection, only a helmet, and for the faction, because the famous legend of the fail of cananean walls with only pay we can put a technology of "celt style", the healrs increase the armour!

Edited November 1, 2013 by newcivs

[Lion.Kanzen]

this Faction is very delicate i need a pool to make decisions with this.

[newcivs]

the hebrews and the celts "gauls, britons and germanics" have a strong myth that the "god(s)" aid in the battle, and i think that this facions should hace a bonus with the healers, +2 armor is good

and the judean slingers was of the most powerful slingers on the mediterranean!!, i think that the hebrew facion must hace a slinger bonus!, as to the balearic slingers, was powerful!

[newcivs]

In the chariot unit names, I meant "Egyptian" and "Canaanite" in the sense of the Achaemenid Persians having "Babylonian" scythed chariots: "Babylonian" as in the manufacturing, style, and/or usage origin, not as in the personnel makeup. Sorry if the names are a bit misleading; I wanted a concise way to differentiate the two kinds of chariots.

I like Thorfinn's idea from earlier this year:

Except I would introduce the mobile Tabernacle in town phase. The player would have the option of either building the Tabernacle in town phase and upgrading to the Temple in city phase, or else holding off until city phase to build the Temple, at which point the Tabernacle would become unavailable.

t

In the chariot unit names, I meant "Egyptian" and "Canaanite" in the sense of the Achaemenid Persians having "Babylonian" scythed chariots: "Babylonian" as in the manufacturing, style, and/or usage origin, not as in the personnel makeup. Sorry if the names are a bit misleading; I wanted a concise way to differentiate the two kinds of chariots.

I like Thorfinn's idea from earlier this year:

Except I would introduce the mobile Tabernacle in town phase. The player would have the option of either building the Tabernacle in town phase and upgrading to the Temple in city phase, or else holding off until city phase to build the Temple, at which point the Tabernacle would become unavailable.

i have a quiestion?

on the tabernacle i can train healers??

[newcivs]

You Dint think if i use google translator, I don't have mistakes, google translator always have mistakes. For cultural reasons and for differences in what I want to say. Even I don't expect in Spanish someone can understand. Some creative people like me, is hard to express. By the way.

In chess game that are a videogame, You never see,the king fall. I think see a Salomon temple even never see in Flames, even if in History that happens. This faction, is very special, may be new alternatives to gameplay. I prefer to finish as at last. Beyond 0AD part 2.

Other faction is special and controversial, are the Sea People. They evolving to become into philistine people.

Now the temples, can be protected, but maybe with trigger if temple take a some damage, the game is over. The player loses the game. That way, forces to the temple to dont have any damage, even a scratch.

But I'm worrying with antisemites, try to insult the Jews with the game. Even I want to prevent that. May be Amish or other can say a suggest, for me. Is difficult all I know, was reading the bible, I was Baptist in the past. All I know about Jews is by Christians Zionists. But is obviously the same.

i think that lost the temple should don't be suicide for faction, but converts the faction "unplayable" weak, expensive and unarmored units, expensive and weak structures, or at leat put as wonder as this wonder is obligatory for victory "mantain the style but avoiding polemics"

[newcivs]

You should only use mainstream archeological science and researches for all factions (not limited to jews). You shouldn't base the civilization features on a book/work (whatever the book/work is) that is not a scientific or historiographical study (and i don't mean national geographic/history channel/discovery channel documentaries, no offence alpha). You shouldn't use the bible to create the jews, but an historiographic study on the bible instead.

Let me explain, if the bible (a non scientific book) says the jews were "X shaped", you shouldn't just say "the jews will be X shaped" but find an historiographical study of the bible saying "This claim from the bible where it says that jews were X shaped is true" and then say "the jews will be X shaped".

I don't mean that the bible has non-cientific or fake things, just that the bible (even if its content was true), was not written by scientific-post enlightment-historians and therefore should not be considered for the game until a modern day study of it confirms its claims to be true. Imagine it like a filter, we should use the filter of historiography and archeology, if its true or likely to be true what the bible says, there must be studies about it, and we should use the results of those studies and not the bible itself as inspiration.

In fact!!, is a mithology, It has something indeed, but or the facts are exaggerated, or mystified, for which is prohibitive to use it, my must look for archaeological sources

[newcivs]

i dont know if is goo idea destroy temples from a people who today exist,

i have a simple solution put the singoge as "civ centre", and the salomon temple as wonder,this structures have an aura that protects the strucure during 5 minutes of continue attack, after of the 5 minutes "of surrive" ........ or heal units as a temple for aid to surrive the strucures,