Thoughts on the Spartans

[Thalatta]

Yes, this is another yet another post about the Spartans. No, I’m not going to complain about broken Spartiates. A few things caught my attention when I started playing some weeks ago, and then I just went down a rabbit hole (things I usually do to myself). The purpose of me joining this forum was to write about this, but then other things got in the way. Also, recently “More Unique Civs: What can we do?“ was asked, I hope some of the following points give some ideas. I think it’s great to name things like “Limēn (Dock)”, but I’ll leave those details to Ancient Greek speakers. Then:

 

PART I:

 

Simple things that should be:

-Tyrtean Paeans should be Tyrtaean Paeans: that’s a typo, and maybe the icon should be different because people will think it’s about some sandal tech. Of course it would be nice somewhere to add a small explanation of things.

-Carrier Pigeons should be Phryctoria: Pigeons were used already by the 8th century BC (there’s a big issue regarding anachronical technologies in general). Systematic fire signaling would have been developed at the time of the game.

-The Loom should be Loom Industry: the Loom has existed for thousands of years, while from the Classical period onwards there’s production on a scale beyond personal needs.

-The Sacrificial Ritual icon should be changed: it’s the same as Kripteia, and shouldn’t seem to represent human sacrifice.

-Spartiates should be Hoplites Spartiates: there could be Spartiates that were too old to be hoplites anymore.

-Embolons should be Three-Finned Embolon: around the time of the start of the game, the triremes and two-pronged bronze rams appear, while the three-finned version appears around 400 BC, a bit more appropriate for such a late tech.

-Gerusia should be Skias: Gerusia was not a building, but a council. They might have met in a Bouleuterion, but anyway, the building has Brasidas, an ephor, and Kripteia, overseen by the ephors, and the ephors formed a council independent from the Gerusia. I think Skias is a better fit since Pausanias says “they have built what is called Scias (Canopy), where even at the present day they hold their meetings of the Assembly”, which was made up of all Spartiates to elect the gerontes and ephors, and ratify their proposals (of course, many things are still discussed by scholars, Sparta is not as well documented as Athens). Figure 6 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows how it would have looked like (search “Skias et Oikodoméma”).

-Hellenistic Architecture civ. bonus should be Doric Order: it says “the Greeks used stone construction from early Mycenaean times”. This is confusion of the highest order. Those stones (Cyclopean masonry) have nothing to do with Hellenistic architecture, which corresponds to the Hellenistic period, starting with Alexander’s death. Maybe “Hellenic” was meant, referring to the preceding period, but their architecture had little to do with reusing those stones, just mainly for walls. And in any case, Sparta didn’t really reuse them, Athens and others did. To fix this: they had 3 orders of architecture, Doric (appearing before the game starts), Ionic (appearing a bit later) and Corinthian (appearing in the Classical period). Then, Athenians could have a Cyclopean Masonry civ. bonus for cheaper stone walls or something, and with Sparta they should start with a Doric Order civ. bonus (basically the only one Spartans used) for sturdy buildings (they were building temples with wood before that). And that’s it for the Spartans. Others could also have Ionic Order and Corinthian Order techs, but that’s another matter.

-The Spartan Olympic Hoplite should be Hippeus (Royal Guard): this has been proposed already, but I have something to add. Hippeis (I’d add “Royal Guard” as translation), a designation of hundreds, are being ignored in favor of what would have been a handful. Besides, I think this is based on imprecise translations, since I’ve found variations stating either Olympic, great or public games (https://lexundria.com/plut_lyc/22/prr), and the original (https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0007.tlg004.perseus-grc2:22.4) says “a crowned victor of a contest”, only later specifying the Olympics for a particular warrior.

-The Sanctuary of Artemis Orthia should be Athena Chalkioikos: I’m being nitpicky with this one since both were important, but it was Athena, not Artemis, the polyadic (protector) deity of Sparta, and it would be only in the 2nd century AD that her worship would be overshadowed by that of Artemis Orthia (check Guy Dickins’ The Hieron of Athena Chalkioikos). Artemis’ cult could give Spartiates stats enhancement bonus (it was related to the Agoge, and notorious for the diamastigosis, a ritual flagellation event). Athena’s cult was more civil in nature, and could give a metal bonus (apparently related to metal workers, chalkioikos means bronze house, I think the building had bronze outside).

 

Simple things that could be:

-Cartography could be Geography: cartography has existed for thousands of years, it was geographical knowledge that made maps more precise, and Erathostenes, at the time of the game, was the first to use that word.

-Naupegoi (Shipwrights) could be Neōsoikoi (Shipshed): shipwrights are not new to the time of the game. Spartan shipsheds were probably built at this time, and this would work well for Athens and others also.

-The Persian Stoa could be the Wonder: I’ve read there’s some unused model. Pausanias says “The most striking feature in the Agora is the portico which they call the Persian Stoa, because it was made from spoils taken in the Persian Wars”. Figure 18 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows a diagram of it.

-Laws of Lycurgus could be Great Rhetra: Great Rhetra is the name of their constitution, the info tip could say it’s the Laws of Lycurgus, as he is already mentioned in other places, like the Catafalque Bonuses icon. It still refers to the thankfully renamed Champion Hoplites and Olympic Champions, thus all this has to be rephrased now.

-Unlock Neodamodeis could be Helot Emancipation: emancipation is how Xenophon constantly describes it. Brasidians was also proposed I think, but that refers only to the Helots that served under Brasidas.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could appear only once: in Catafalque Bonuses it says 2 times Lycurgan Military Reforms, I’d write it just once, since both are infantry cost bonuses, and could be grouped under the same name. It still refers to Citizen Infantry Spearman and Champion Infantry Spearman.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could be Melas Zomos: just a detail in line with names "teaching" something interesting, and Lycurgus already appears, as mentioned. The bonus lowers hoplite costs, and melas zomos, or black soup, was the staple of Spartan cuisine, simple and frugal, that other Greeks apparently mocked.

-Ritualistic Exercise (in place of Spartan Women) civ. bonus could be Bibasis: Bibasis was a difficult Spartan dance done by both men and women, and made Spartan women capable of notorious physical feats for which they were very proud of. I meant this for the Spartan Women, but it would work for Citizen-Soldiers also, as referred to now.

 

Changes that have been already proposed:

-Remove the Theater: something like that was built later in Roman times. Many state that the Skias was the oldest known odeion in ancient Greece (I guess the wooden theater some were mentioning), but this could be a misconception from some Medieval dictionary. A generic Odeion building could be also added, if they’ll eventually do something (cultural buildings and techs could influence expansion and capture times).

-Add Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus: although my naming, the ability to train two Heroes at once has been discussed a lot. One of them could be garrisoned for Hero bonuses to work to ensure one king stays in Sparta (it doesn’t matter if non-king Heroes are trained, one can imagine that one has to stay for other reasons). I’m not sure if there’s a problem with regicide mode, losing one of them should be losing, making training an extra one in regicide mode a more dangerous choice. One could get nitpicky about not having 2 kings of the same dynasty at the same time, but that’s too much, why not complain about Han vs Britons then, or training Heroes in the wrong chronological order.

-Add Oliganthropia civ. bonus: reduce maximum population (-10% has been proposed, maybe applied only to Spartiates).

-Revise building availability: I’ve seen discussions regarding the Stables, the Market, the Stone Tower, and the Arsenal, and I also think they should appear later, if even, and with less techs and units (I haven’t found anything regarding Spartans using the oxybeles). Weak trade and cavalry would be balanced in what follows.

 

Other changes that could be considered:

-Make the Skias train Ephors: ephors held the real power, they applied the law (applying fines) and oversaw training (checking fitness). Similarly to the Han Ministers, Ephor units could be trained, up to 5, to generate metal and affect stats of units produced from the building they would be garrisoned in. Ephors could balance weak or no trade considering payment in resources (I couldn’t find direct references on sources, but Spartans shunned gold and silver and paid in food and iron, maybe in other resources). Brasidas would be a Hero Ephor, increasing both counts, penalty balanced with the Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus. The same could be for Chilon of Sparta, one of the Seven Sages of Greece, although he lived a bit too early for the game.

-Add Skias techs, like Bribe Gerontes and Cleomenes III Reforms: a Bribe Gerontes tech, returning a direct reference to the Gerusia, could make Heroes a bit more powerful (Agesilaus II, a proposed hero, and other kings did it). A late Cleomenes III Reforms tech (introducing him in a way, as proposed) could kill one’s Ephors (a condition could be to have at least 4 of them) in exchange for some mostly military bonus. Bribe Gerontes sounds better as a building ability with a cooldown, if this sort of thing could be even considered.

-Make Skiritae faster and with larger FOV: they were used as hoplites, scouts, sentries, and later on, skirmishers. Some think they just used pelts as armor. Skiritae would then balance a weak cavalry, and everything falls naturally to the Barracks, quite Spartan, a concept someone also proposed.

-Change how units level up: it was confusing for me that units got automatically upgraded to yet another type of infantry, messing up with double-clicking, and having them not really go through all ranks (if I understood correctly how it works, maybe not). I’d only upgrade them when a 4th rank is reached. Also maybe an Hippagretai Chosen tech should be researched first, if upgrading to Hippeis, explaining that this will happen (the 3 Hippagretai chose the 300 Hippeis).

 

This is long enough for now. I have 8 points already done for Part II, but I’ll need some time to flesh out other things.

[Emacz]

1 hour ago, Thalatta said:

Yes, this is another yet another post about the Spartans. No, I’m not going to complain about broken Spartiates. A few things caught my attention when I started playing some weeks ago, and then I just went down a rabbit hole (things I usually do to myself). The purpose of me joining this forum was to write about this, but then other things got in the way. Also, recently “More Unique Civs: What can we do?“ was asked, I hope some of the following points give some ideas. I think it’s great to name things like “Limēn (Dock)”, but I’ll leave those details to Ancient Greek speakers. Then:

 

PART I:

 

Simple things that should be:

-Tyrtean Paeans should be Tyrtaean Paeans: that’s a typo, and maybe the icon should be different because people will think it’s about some sandal tech. Of course it would be nice somewhere to add a small explanation of things.

-Carrier Pigeons should be Phryctoria: Pigeons were used already by the 8th century BC (there’s a big issue regarding anachronical technologies in general). Systematic fire signaling would have been developed at the time of the game.

-The Loom should be Loom Industry: the Loom has existed for thousands of years, while from the Classical period onwards there’s production on a scale beyond personal needs.

-The Sacrificial Ritual icon should be changed: it’s the same as Kripteia, and shouldn’t seem to represent human sacrifice.

-Spartiates should be Hoplites Spartiates: there could be Spartiates that were too old to be hoplites anymore.

-Embolons should be Three-Finned Embolon: around the time of the start of the game, the triremes and two-pronged bronze rams appear, while the three-finned version appears around 400 BC, a bit more appropriate for such a late tech.

-Gerusia should be Skias: Gerusia was not a building, but a council. They might have met in a Bouleuterion, but anyway, the building has Brasidas, an ephor, and Kripteia, overseen by the ephors, and the ephors formed a council independent from the Gerusia. I think Skias is a better fit since Pausanias says “they have built what is called Scias (Canopy), where even at the present day they hold their meetings of the Assembly”, which was made up of all Spartiates to elect the gerontes and ephors, and ratify their proposals (of course, many things are still discussed by scholars, Sparta is not as well documented as Athens). Figure 6 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows how it would have looked like (search “Skias et Oikodoméma”).

-Hellenistic Architecture civ. bonus should be Doric Order: it says “the Greeks used stone construction from early Mycenaean times”. This is confusion of the highest order. Those stones (Cyclopean masonry) have nothing to do with Hellenistic architecture, which corresponds to the Hellenistic period, starting with Alexander’s death. Maybe “Hellenic” was meant, referring to the preceding period, but their architecture had little to do with reusing those stones, just mainly for walls. And in any case, Sparta didn’t really reuse them, Athens and others did. To fix this: they had 3 orders of architecture, Doric (appearing before the game starts), Ionic (appearing a bit later) and Corinthian (appearing in the Classical period). Then, Athenians could have a Cyclopean Masonry civ. bonus for cheaper stone walls or something, and with Sparta they should start with a Doric Order civ. bonus (basically the only one Spartans used) for sturdy buildings (they were building temples with wood before that). And that’s it for the Spartans. Others could also have Ionic Order and Corinthian Order techs, but that’s another matter.

-The Spartan Olympic Hoplite should be Hippeus (Royal Guard): this has been proposed already, but I have something to add. Hippeis (I’d add “Royal Guard” as translation), a designation of hundreds, are being ignored in favor of what would have been a handful. Besides, I think this is based on imprecise translations, since I’ve found variations stating either Olympic, great or public games (https://lexundria.com/plut_lyc/22/prr), and the original (https://scaife.perseus.org/reader/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0007.tlg004.perseus-grc2:22.4) says “a crowned victor of a contest”, only later specifying the Olympics for a particular warrior.

-The Sanctuary of Artemis Orthia should be Athena Chalkioikos: I’m being nitpicky with this one since both were important, but it was Athena, not Artemis, the polyadic (protector) deity of Sparta, and it would be only in the 2nd century AD that her worship would be overshadowed by that of Artemis Orthia (check Guy Dickins’ The Hieron of Athena Chalkioikos). Artemis’ cult could give Spartiates stats enhancement bonus (it was related to the Agoge, and notorious for the diamastigosis, a ritual flagellation event). Athena’s cult was more civil in nature, and could give a metal bonus (apparently related to metal workers, chalkioikos means bronze house, I think the building had bronze outside).

 

Simple things that could be:

-Cartography could be Geography: cartography has existed for thousands of years, it was geographical knowledge that made maps more precise, and Erathostenes, at the time of the game, was the first to use that word.

-Naupegoi (Shipwrights) could be Neōsoikoi (Shipshed): shipwrights are not new to the time of the game. Spartan shipsheds were probably built at this time, and this would work well for Athens and others also.

-The Persian Stoa could be the Wonder: I’ve read there’s some unused model. Pausanias says “The most striking feature in the Agora is the portico which they call the Persian Stoa, because it was made from spoils taken in the Persian Wars”. Figure 18 in https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/7647 shows a diagram of it.

-Laws of Lycurgus could be Great Rhetra: Great Rhetra is the name of their constitution, the info tip could say it’s the Laws of Lycurgus, as he is already mentioned in other places, like the Catafalque Bonuses icon. It still refers to the thankfully renamed Champion Hoplites and Olympic Champions, thus all this has to be rephrased now.

-Unlock Neodamodeis could be Helot Emancipation: emancipation is how Xenophon constantly describes it. Brasidians was also proposed I think, but that refers only to the Helots that served under Brasidas.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could appear only once: in Catafalque Bonuses it says 2 times Lycurgan Military Reforms, I’d write it just once, since both are infantry cost bonuses, and could be grouped under the same name. It still refers to Citizen Infantry Spearman and Champion Infantry Spearman.

-Lycurgan Military Reforms could be Melas Zomos: just a detail in line with names "teaching" something interesting, and Lycurgus already appears, as mentioned. The bonus lowers hoplite costs, and melas zomos, or black soup, was the staple of Spartan cuisine, simple and frugal, that other Greeks apparently mocked.

-Ritualistic Exercise (in place of Spartan Women) civ. bonus could be Bibasis: Bibasis was a difficult Spartan dance done by both men and women, and made Spartan women capable of notorious physical feats for which they were very proud of. I meant this for the Spartan Women, but it would work for Citizen-Soldiers also, as referred to now.

 

Changes that have been already proposed:

-Remove the Theater: something like that was built later in Roman times. Many state that the Skias was the oldest known odeion in ancient Greece (I guess the wooden theater some were mentioning), but this could be a misconception from some Medieval dictionary. A generic Odeion building could be also added, if they’ll eventually do something (cultural buildings and techs could influence expansion and capture times).

-Add Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus: although my naming, the ability to train two Heroes at once has been discussed a lot. One of them could be garrisoned for Hero bonuses to work to ensure one king stays in Sparta (it doesn’t matter if non-king Heroes are trained, one can imagine that one has to stay for other reasons). I’m not sure if there’s a problem with regicide mode, losing one of them should be losing, making training an extra one in regicide mode a more dangerous choice. One could get nitpicky about not having 2 kings of the same dynasty at the same time, but that’s too much, why not complain about Han vs Britons then, or training Heroes in the wrong chronological order.

-Add Oliganthropia civ. bonus: reduce maximum population (-10% has been proposed, maybe applied only to Spartiates).

-Revise building availability: I’ve seen discussions regarding the Stables, the Market, the Stone Tower, and the Arsenal, and I also think they should appear later, if even, and with less techs and units (I haven’t found anything regarding Spartans using the oxybeles). Weak trade and cavalry would be balanced in what follows.

 

Other changes that could be considered:

-Make the Skias train Ephors: ephors held the real power, they applied the law (applying fines) and oversaw training (checking fitness). Similarly to the Han Ministers, Ephor units could be trained, up to 5, to generate metal and affect stats of units produced from the building they would be garrisoned in. Ephors could balance weak or no trade considering payment in resources (I couldn’t find direct references on sources, but Spartans shunned gold and silver and paid in food and iron, maybe in other resources). Brasidas would be a Hero Ephor, increasing both counts, penalty balanced with the Agiads and Eurypontids civ. bonus. The same could be for Chilon of Sparta, one of the Seven Sages of Greece, although he lived a bit too early for the game.

-Add Skias techs, like Bribe Gerontes and Cleomenes III Reforms: a Bribe Gerontes tech, returning a direct reference to the Gerusia, could make Heroes a bit more powerful (Agesilaus II, a proposed hero, and other kings did it). A late Cleomenes III Reforms tech (introducing him in a way, as proposed) could kill one’s Ephors (a condition could be to have at least 4 of them) in exchange for some mostly military bonus. Bribe Gerontes sounds better as a building ability with a cooldown, if this sort of thing could be even considered.

-Make Skiritae faster and with larger FOV: they were used as hoplites, scouts, sentries, and later on, skirmishers. Some think they just used pelts as armor. Skiritae would then balance a weak cavalry, and everything falls naturally to the Barracks, quite Spartan, a concept someone also proposed.

-Change how units level up: it was confusing for me that units got automatically upgraded to yet another type of infantry, messing up with double-clicking, and having them not really go through all ranks (if I understood correctly how it works, maybe not). I’d only upgrade them when a 4th rank is reached. Also maybe an Hippagretai Chosen tech should be researched first, if upgrading to Hippeis, explaining that this will happen (the 3 Hippagretai chose the 300 Hippeis).

 

This is long enough for now. I have 8 points already done for Part II, but I’ll need some time to flesh out other things.

OP! we did some of this already in Classical Warfare, but welcome these ideas and changes.

We removed the baracks from sparta though... wheren the mess halls where spartiates congregated? ANd perioikoi werent citizens, so they come from camps just ont he outskirts of the territory.

[Thalatta]

3 minutes ago, Emacz said:

OP! we did some of this already in Classical Warfare, but welcome these ideas and changes.

We removed the baracks from sparta though... wheren the mess halls where spartiates congregated? ANd perioikoi werent citizens, so they come from camps just ont he outskirts of the territory.

 

Spartans would live and train at barracks from the ages of 7 (others say 14, maybe permanently from then on) to around 20. Then they would be admitted to the syssitia, to have mandatory meals in small mess halls. They are different things (always check the sources, for example Kulesza in Sparta: History, State and Society says that "Clauss (1983, 79), as well as Jones (1964, 153) believe that Agis planned to change the form of the syssitia, transforming them from intimate dinner clubs into large mess halls"). Regarding the Perioikoi, since they were mostly free in their communities, and Xenophon says "followed with him also many of the Perioeci as volunteers, men of the better class, and aliens who belonged to the so-called foster-children of Sparta, and sons of the Spartiatae by Helot women, exceedingly fine-looking men, not without experience of the good gifts of the state", they had time to train, I guess in their own barracks (still have to find a source on that). One can think the base game just conglomerates barracks (or wherever people trained) from all Sparta (or Lacedaemon, which is more encompassing). Outskirt camps are a bit weird, they had their own towns, and were considered part of the state, saying they were not citizens is a misleading simplification. Kulesza puts it nicely: "Formally speaking, the perioikoi constituted a part of the Spartan state (though the question remains whether they were still inhabitants of separate city-states; see Eremin 2002; Mertens 2002), which is reflected in its official name, the Lacedaemonians, which included both the fully enfranchised citizens (Spartiates) and the perioikoi. In my estimation, the perioikoi were both citizens of the Spartan polis and citizens of their own city-states, which justifies using the term “double citizenship” (Hall 2000). On the other hand, the perioikoi had no political rights, and thus were fully dependent on Sparta in the most fundamental issues, which is why they are sometimes described as “second-rate citizens” (Lotze 2000, 171–183, see Cartledge 2000, col. 582–583; Ducat 2018, 612)".

[Emacz]

Ok yeah i was under the impression that they were free, but not same full rights as citizens.... Finding easy to read academic sources is challenging.  Sent you another PM.  Would love to work with you more on this!

 

[Thalatta]

Now for things that I knew were off but had to source more carefully, or things that I found by chance while doing that. This time I quoted some sources, for those interested in reading (didn’t do it for info that got long ago).

 

PART II:

 

Simple things that should be:

-Syssition should be Pheideition: Syssition is much more commonly found, but it’s not the Spartan name, the “term Spartans used for the public mess was pheideition (IG 5.1.128.13; 150.1; 155.6) or pheidition (IG 5.1.1507.1, cf. van Wees 2018, 237). Athenian authors called it phidition, or sometimes syssition. Alkman also mentions the word andreion (Alkman 98 Page), while Xenophon uses syskenion (Xen. Lak. Pol. 5.2; for more on terminology, see Bielschowsky 1869, 9–13; Lavrencic 1992, 12–16; Rundin 1996, 207 n. 47). Plutarch explains that the common meals (syssitia) were called andreia by the Cretans and phiditia by the Lacedaemonians”, Spartan History, State and Society, by R. Kulesza.

 

Simple things that could be:

-Helot Economy could be Revolt Suppression: in general, better if techs relate to things during the game period, while civ. bonuses. to things that come from before. In this case I thought about the Great Helot Revolt of 464 BC.

-Handicraft and Advanced Handicraft could be Bell Krater and Megarian Bowl: these generic names could be substituted by actual pottery types, which appeared after 400 BC and 323 BC, respectively. This also brings the issue of what would happen with a very different civilisation: I think it would be nice for them to have slightly different bonuses, given that techs would be along the same lines, but different.

-Periplous (flanking manoeuvres) could be Aulētēs (Piper): periplous is just a manoeuvre (one of many), it’s like having a “galloping” tech in the Stable. Pipers weren’t really necessary before triremes. 

-Ship Cladding could be Lead Sheathing, and come after Undergirding Cables: undergirding cables are from at least the 5th century BC, and it would be hard to find anything related to hull integrity between the beginning of the game and that. I’m not sure what is exactly meant by ship cladding, I could only find lead sheathing in the 3rd century BC, although I’m not sure if for triremes, but maybe that detail doesn’t matter. A source I used is Ships and Seamanship in the Ancient World, by L. Casson.

-Iron Plow, Gather Training and Fertiliser could be Terraces, Green Manure and Water Wheel: these don’t seem relevant or interesting for the period. On the other hand, terraces seem to have appeared early in the Classical period, green manure by the end of the 4th century BC, and the water wheel around the 3rd century BC. I’d remove the last one for Sparta since I don’t think there's evidence for it, but maybe give them a Kleroi civ. bonus, explained later.

-Improved fletching, iron arrowheads and trilobate arrowheads could be bodkin arrowheads, trilobate arrowheads and pyramidal arrowheads: how and when was fletching improved, exactly? Iron arrowheads are from many centuries before the game. All give damage bonuses, and “with the exception of the three-edged rhomboid arrowheads, which appeared in Greece from the 6th century, were in wide use in the 5th century and declined during the 4th century BCE, the rest of the categories – bodkin, three-edged with barbs, and pyramidal – belong to types that appeared from the end of the 5th century BCE and were used widely through-out the 4th c. BCE”, Bow and Arrowheads from Ancient Macedonia, by I. Bellas.

-Fishing Nets could be Murex Fishing, to get extra metal, only for Sparta: nets have existed for thousands of years. I propose this tech for obtaining metal, alongside food, when fishing. Spartans should get their food mostly from farming, while for fishing, “despite this dearth of good harbours, there were still of course Perioikoi who engaged in fishing and trade. The economic significance of fishing in the Mediterranean world generally is often grossly inflated (...). There is, however, one marine resource, the murex mollusc (trunculus or brandaris), which merits special mention (...) ‘royal purple’, obtained by processing the milky secretions of the murex (...). Its production in antiquity was primarily associated with the Phoenicians of Tyre, but among the Greeks the Lakonians and Tarentines were leading producers”, Sparta and Lakonia, by P. Cartledge.

-Fishing Nets could be Rolled/Folded Sinkers, for other Greeks: I found the “appearance of these types of net weights in the second half of the 5th century BC”, and “leads made using a rolled sheet in a cylindrical shape are the oldest, while those made using a folded sheet did not appear until the end of the 4th century BC”, although for Athens and others, not Sparta. I think I read this on Ancient Nets and Fishing Gear, by T. Bekker-Nielsen and D.B. Casasola.

-Salt Curing could be Tarichos Trade, but not for Sparta: salt curing has existed for thousands of years, only around the 5th century BC salted fish, or tarichos, became a staple food, although for Athens and others, not Sparta.

-Gardens and Manors could be Sewerage and Peristyle Courtyards, but not for Sparta: those things appear in archeology at the time of the game for Athens and others, while Sparta had only simple drainage systems and houses. Those bonuses are for more population with time anyway, which doesn’t make a lot of sense with Sparta. They should go for quality, not quantity.

-Wooden Shields, Metal Rim and Improved Shield Alloys could be Molded Greave, Cord Handle and Shield Apron: the present techs don’t make much sense as developments for the time period. Regarding the greave, by “the later sixth century it had been shaped to fit the leg as closely as possible”, the shield’s handle went from a piece of leather to “a cord all round the shield” to have “plenty of spare cord if it should break”, and the leather apron “often attached in the period after the Persian Wars to the lower rim of the hoplite shield. This probably supplemented the greaves in their function, as a barrier against missiles”, Arms and Armor of the Greeks, by A.M. Snodgrass.

-Spolas and Linothorax could be Transitional Cuirass and Muscle Cuirass: Spolas and Linothorax should give price and mobility bonuses, not hack armor ones. The preceding bell cuirass had another successor, transitional cuirass, and later muscle cuirass, which seem to me better candidates for hack bonuses, along mobility ones, since it was the actual aim. In addition, new helmet types could give FOV bonuses. During the later 5th century BC they actually abandoned most armor, and adopted the exomis, a tunic.

-Xiphos, Iron Weapons and Carburisation could be Carburisation, Quenching and Tempering: all give damage bonuses. The Xiphos and iron weapons appeared too early. Even intentional carburisation seems to be early. The techs I propose refer to very early steel, and evolved mostly in parallel, but an exact timing is really hard to get, with early examples of everything appearing before the start of game, but a more consistent use after it. Still, while there’s very limited evidence (and considerable debate), I’ve found: “the carbon content (...) could be increased by carburization (...). Steel was not only harder than iron; its hardness could be further enhanced by quenching (...), and the resulting brittleness moderated by tempering .(...) welding hard steel sections into or onto relatively soft and bendable iron bodies, clearly demonstrating a high level of understanding of different material properties, and the ability to differentiate between iron and steel (...). Although Greek and Roman craftsmen were unable to melt and cast iron during this period, blacksmiths were able to weld together individual pieces of iron and/or steel”, Metallurgy, Greece and Rome, by T. Rehren. The much earlier Odyssey states that “a blacksmith plunges a screaming great axe blade or adze into cold water, treating it for temper, since this is the way steel is made strong”, but this is sometimes interpreted as simple cooling, which seems weird to me because of what’s actually said, but for now I have no better ideas.

 

Changes that have been already proposed:

-The role of trade could be reduced, for Sparta: mostly to enhance civilisation differentiation: “Lakonia, then, was remarkably self-sufficient in useful rocks and minerals as well as agricultural potential, and overseas trade in essentials was relatively unimportant”. “On the west coast of Messenia the best natural harbour was of course Navarino Bay (ancient Pylos), but the Spartans made little or no effort to develop its strategic or commercial potential”, Sparta and Lakonia, by P. Cartledge.

-Stable techs could be reconsidered, for Sparta: apparently the Spartans gave importance to horse racing, but didn’t have a big horse breeding program like other Greeks, who could also have a spiked rollers tech for more speed, given that “was beginning to be introduced to Greece (...) for the sides of the horse's mouth”, Arms and Armor of the Greeks, by A.M. Snodgrass. Also, the Xiphos “was eclipsed by the appearance of a more specialized cutting weapon”, the Kopis, which could be a hack bonus tech, being a curved sword recommended for cavalry (by Xenophon for example), but probably not for Sparta.

-Not allowing fields near the CC: this was discussed at some point for some civs, for realism, and would end making Sparta way more realistic. Actually, I was thinking that blocks of clustered buildings should not be bigger than a given area, since houses are otherwise abused as defensive structures, rendering palisades and walls useless.

-Siege tech and units should be reconsidered, for Sparta, and siege engines should be built (mostly) on the field: as proposed by many, I’d leave the (Siege) Workshop for Engineers, techs, and some simple siege units, but the Engineers should build the bigger engines on location, among other things (like bridges, trenches, traps, as already suggested, and depending on each civ.). They could also give build and repair bonuses. Engineer Heroes like Archimedes for Syracusians (if added) would be nice, able to build unique siege engines (the Claw at least). Spartan unit and tech availability should be revised down maybe, I’ll leave a longer discussion on siege engines en general for later (if ever).

 

Other changes that could be considered:

-Kleroi could be a civ. bonus: the kleroi were the Spartiate land allotments where helots lived and farmed. Also considering that their farmlands were among the most fertile, this bonus could give cheaper fields, to compensate for not having the latest agricultural tech.

-The role of fortifications could be reduced for Spartans, and some things changed, for Greeks in general: there’s a lot to disentangle here. A bit in general (mostly about Athenians, Boeotians, Messenians, and others, and then it should be decided what to remove for Sparta, all using Ancient Greek Fortifications, by N. Fields):

—Towers could have some changes: First, “the building decree of 307/306 BC not only covers repairs to the existing brickwork but also gives specifications for rebuilding the City Wall, including the roofing of the wall-walk or parodos (...) as the simplest means of protecting from the elements the small torsion-spring catapults, probably bolt-shooters, mounted on the curtains: the Athenians were certainly building torsion artillery by 306/305 BC” (later stating “not been invented before the turn of the 4th century BC”). Non-torsion catapults are also mentioned. Then, if one wants to be more historically accurate, “around 500 BC a major innovation, perhaps borrowed from Near-Eastern sources, appears with the addition of two-storeyed towers”, “rectangular in shape” and “with a covered chamber in the second storey and an open fighting platform protected by a parapet at roof level”, and had “the second chamber at parodos level with arrow slits. They were not, therefore, designed to house catapults, but as battle-stations for archers”. If one wanted to use catapults, "the lower chamber was not for catapults - these were housed in the fenestrated upper chamber - but for archers”, thus these catapult towers “dispensed with the fighting-platform roof and instead employed a gabled roof, which was easier to make watertight and thus keep machines dry”, and they had a larger minimum range. A “five-storey tower” is mentioned, but not much is said, while “towers of semicircular plan were stronger, but more difficult to construct. They also had the advantage of providing defenders with better fields of vision and fire”. It’s also said when a “solid base” is used. To implement things properly would require many types of towers, I think the simplest way is to make the Sentry Tower look like a small Stone Tower, and the Stone Tower would be a larger (semi)cylindrical version of that. I would remove Sentries, Crenellations, Arrow Shooters (all should be there already), and Murder Holes (mostly anachronistic, and that’s why multiple towers were built in range of each other), and the Arrow Slits and Catapult Windows techs could be added instead, or if possible in the future they could be mutually exclusive building upgrades (a concept discussed before, and would allow more types of building without overpopulating the construction panel), the latter one giving the look of the Sentry Tower. A Peripoloi (Patrols) tech could be added for either FOV or range, since they were garrisons for the border forts and watchtowers to patrol the mountainous borderlands, particularly during and after the 4th century BC. A change from Sturdy Foundations to Solid Base would seem unnecessary (unless quoting sources is wanted), although Iron Clamps could be considered (which is what the icon shows, and “these were set in lead and can be found all over the Near East, dating from the 5th century BC”, A History of Metallurgy, by R.F. Tylecote), but I’m not sure if they were used in these cases, just that they were used in other cases, so it would be weird as a tower tech.

—Palisades, Walls and Fortresses could have some changes: since “materials employed in Greek fortifications may be divided into two main groups: sun-dried mud-brick on a stone socle, and walls built entirely of stone. Completion in mud-brick unquestionably saved a great deal of time and money”, Palisades could be upgraded to mud-brick walls. Since “restoration work to include binding the decaying brickwork with 'wooden baulks'” is mentioned, a Wooden Baulks tech for resistance bonus could be added. Regarding stone walls, “battlements were probably in the form of a crenellated parapet that protected a parodos”, but this seems to have been the case for a long time, and that the parodos “required a more durable paving of slabs. The Athenian inscription of 307/306 BC ordains that the parodos and other portions subjected to wear be given a hard covering (possibly stone) imposed on a 'finger-thickness of sieved earth'”. Proteichisma was an outer stone wall and ditch, since “with the development of mechanical warfare by the Macedonians the function of combined ditch and breastwork is best seen as a more positive countermeasure, other than by sallying forth and physically destroying them”. Dipylon was a double gate that would act as a trap. Fortresses are kind of “imagine we cluster walls and towers here”, I find its techs (Will to Fight, Murder Holes and Professional Garrisons) uninteresting, maybe techs like Stone Parodos (number or rate of arrows bonus), Proteichisma (resistance bonus, or aura to slow down units or only siege engines) and Dipylon (number or rate of arrows bonus) for Fortresses and/or Stone Walls could be considered.

 

I think Spartans should have less techs, and be more self-sufficient (although most of my changes are just renamings), for realism and differentiation. Part III will take me quite a while because I have nothing prepared yet, although I came across some things already.

[Emacz]

We have already changed them a lot with Clasical Warfare, and will definitely read through this more and figure out which ones can be applied.  May start with just sparta for the farms within x distance of cc, i do like that idea.

[Deicide4u]

@Thalatta

The game doesn't need too many technologies. Only a small number of generic techs, and from there build upon each civ's strengths. 

Technologies give an illusion of choice, and often give bonuses that should've been there by default, or not at all. Examples are the two techs for towers for greater range and more default arrows. They are also too expensive to be viable during the period of the game when towers matter.

The attention of the player needs to be elsewhere, on the training of troops and construction of production structures.

Edited April 12 by Deicide4u
Wording

[Emacz]

I agree and disagree  I think we need to choose technologies wisely, something I sometimes have a hard time doing with Classical Warfare AEA.  But related to Techs being too expensive.... you can lower the cost to make them a little move viable and then it's a little more choose your own adventure/put a unique twist with your build.

[Thalatta]

@Deicide4u Well, I'm not really adding techs, now for Spartans I'm mostly renaming and removing, and adding a very few to compensate, I think they'd even end with less techs than they have right now. I’m also kind of overshooting with ideas, so there’s somewhere to take from if needed. The point of my posts is not to have a lot of techs, but to make things more historically accurate and interesting, so people that are attracted to that (which I think should be one of the magnets of the game) get more pleased and curious than when reading generic or anachronical names.

Regarding a “small number of generic techs and from there build upon each civ's strengths”, I agree in the sense that it would be too confusing to have tech trees that are too different between civs, but that’s not my intention. Hopefully when reviewing other civs the tech tree will converge to something common with a few differences, although many want to differentiate civs even more, to which I agree, as long as it's not confusing. On the other hand, maybe having a lot of techs could allow for civs to be played in a few different ways (and aiming at getting most techs would be a mistake, at least competitively), and also, under certain limits, would be good SP content (which I see as vital to grow the game).

Edited April 12 by Thalatta

[Emacz]

"The point of my posts is not to have a lot of techs, but to make things more historically accurate and interesting, so people that are attracted to that (which I think should be one of the magnets of the game) get more pleased and curious than when reading generic or anachronical names."

This is what Classical Warfare AEA is trying to accomplish!

[Perzival12]

21 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

The game doesn't need too many technologies. Only a small number of generic techs, and from there build upon each civ's strengths. 

Technologies give an illusion of choice, and often give bonuses that should've been there by default, or not at all. Examples are the two techs for towers for greater range and more default arrows. They are also too expensive to be viable during the period of the game when towers matter.

The attention of the player needs to be elsewhere, on the training of troops and construction of production structures.

I disagree completely with this. Techs are very imprortant to the game, and imo they should be cheaper so they can be researched earlier in the game, when they actually matter. Also, quickly clicking on a tech to queue it does not in any way slow down my economy and training, since most of the time you can just sit back and wait for units to be trained (and using rally points makes this even easier). The game should have lots more techs, or at least every civ should have unique techs rather than renamed versions of the same tech. This would go a long way in making each civ feel unique btw.

[Deicide4u]

14 hours ago, Perzival12 said:

disagree completely with this. Techs are very imprortant to the game

Of course they are important, when the developers made them so essential to the game. 

Let's look at economic technologies. At one point or another, you will want to research all gather speed upgrades, with the exception of lvl2 Stone gathering (if not slinger civ) and Wheelbarrow. Otherwise, your workers are so slow, that people are metagaming 100 pop in 10 minutes games for 11 years now.

The original developers knew this trade off was artificial, so they gave you efficient workers from the start of a game. When they introduced technologies, the techs came in pairs, and they were cheap. The point was that the techs were just a path you chose to follow, not something essential to your build.

Just played a longvgame with a retro version of 0 A.D. It's so much more focused that it's basically a different game. 

[Thalatta]

On 13/04/2026 at 7:14 PM, Perzival12 said:

 at least every civ should have unique techs rather than renamed versions of the same tech. This would go a long way in making each civ feel unique btw.

What is worse, many civs have the same basic techs about things that appeared thousands of years prior. I would use a "rename" if that's what the corresponding civs actually developed, and the impact would be comparable. What worries me a bit though is that, for example, Persians and Seleucids would have almost completely different techs, since one completely preceded the other chronologically. Should their techs be just a rename? Should Seleucid techs be better, but more expensive? Should, as someone proposed somewhere else (with some problems), some civs turn into others (sometimes with choices) along with their Phases? This last thing would solve lots of historical accuracy problems, but would change the game in a fundamental way (maybe something to test on some mod).

[Thalatta]

In Part I, I mentioned that one civ. bonus was wrongly called Hellenistic Architecture. Now I see it says Hellenic, I’m not sure if this was changed or I misread it (the tooltip explanation is still not right). In Part II, I said that Ship Cladding could be Lead Sheathing, but as I suspected, it should apply only to civilian ships (to make them more profitable, since it reduced maintenance) and not warships (because it would slow them down), which could have instead Pararrhymata (Side Protections), used after some point in the 5th century BC. Now I see Ship Cladding has been removed because the tech tree was too lengthy. In any case, this information might be useful for some (@wowgetoffyourcellphone, I’ve seen DE has a more extensive tech tree, not sure how far do you plan to push that, and for how much historical accuracy you strive for), and it’s my view to have many expensive techs, to penalise blind clicking, and open different ways to play each civ, depending on scenario, enemies, etc, reducing mechanicality and enhancing adaptability. Still, in what follows I’m not really adding techs, just mostly renaming or even removing them. Now, to the last part (planned at least, unless I eventually come across new things).

 

Part III

 

Simple things that should be:

-Perioikoi Hoplite/Cavalryman and Skiritai Commando should be Perioikos Hoplite/Cavalryman and Skirites Commando, I think: not to mix plural and singular, if Ancient Greek speakers can confirm (otherwise it reads like Romans Centurion).

 

Simple things that could be:

-Hoplite Tradition could be Hoplite Reform: that’s what the bibliography tends to call it. Espionage and Counterintelligence could make use of some Ancient Greek terms (spies is kataskópous, apparently).

-In Barracks, Conscription could be State Weaponry: I’d have called this tech Arsenals, but there’s already a building called Arsenal. It doesn’t seem like any change in “conscription” at the time of the game would have sped up troop output. Regarding the “establishment of state stores of weaponry”, in the 4th c. BC it became common for many to have stores with arms and armor, to be distributed to those who didn’t have them. The system of supplying arms and armour to Spartan citizens, helots and former helots was adopted around the Second Messenian War, and from at least 424 BC the state supplied arms and armour to helots and neodamodeis on garrison duty. This was followed by many around this time, like Athens, Syracuse, Carthage and Macedon. In the Early Hellenistic period the system of distribution of arms and armour by the poleis was wide-spread. On the other hand, some detachments like cavalry (at least for Macedon) were expected to provide their own equipment (from The Role of Metals in Ancient Greek History, by M.Y. Treister).

-Wicker baskets could be Kalathus: wicker baskets existed for thousands of years. The calathus is a basket that “from the early 5th century [BC] onwards, when women working wool began to be depicted more regularly in Attic vase-paintings and elsewhere, the kalathoi show a more specific shape which would become standardised with remarkable consistency”, “this form which was optimized for wool-work may actually fulfill completely different functions. Among the objects portrayed in the painted architectural illusion decorating room 23 of the Villa A of Oplontis in the Vesuvian region, we see a kalathos filled with ripe fruit. Although there is obviously more to this strange still-life-like combination of a veiled kalathos and an unlit torch, the kalathos in it notably functions as a fruit basket. Using a kalathos for harvesting fruit seems to have been a common thing to do” (A Wool Basket in Clay: Remarks on the Change of Material, the Unusable Object and the Ancient Greek “Culture of Things”, by N. Dietrich).

-Regarding the Storehouse, I wonder why all civs (except Carthaginians, for which stone techs are free) have all the techs. Maybe this is a bit provisory anyway, but I guess it would be better to differentiate civs a bit by not giving all of them. Some could have even different costs and benefits (or combined benefits, Archimedes’ Screw should give both farming and mining bonuses). These decisions should be informed by history, and then proper characteristics could be given, and things rebalanced.

–Baskets, Wheelbarrow, and Horse-drawn Carts could be Wheel Ruts, Improved Roads, and Logistics: “China had the wheelbarrow over two thousand years ago, but there is no evidence for its use in Europe prior to the medieval period” (Early Metal Mining and Production, by P.T. Craddock). M.J.T. Lewis challenges this (considering a “one-wheeler” mentioned in a list), although concedes that at most it would have been used for light loads in construction sites, while not for farming and mining. Donkeys, mules (particularly on mountains) and oxen would be preferred over horses to draw carts, but had been like that for many centuries. On the other hand, better infrastructure and organisation played a more prominent role at this time. I hope someone will eventually come across better names though.

–Wedge and Mallet, Shaft Mining and Silver Mining could be Wind Deflectors, Paired Shafts and Archimedes’ Screw, but not for Sparta: at this time, most mining improvements were on the fields of ventilation and drainage. “The generation of a draught may also have been achieved by means of a wind deflector, as in the case where the wooden shaft lining was used as a forced drain” and the “most original and sophisticated shaft type is that with parallel air ducts”, from The Laurion Shafts, Greece: Ventilation Systems and Mining Technology in Antiquity, by D. Morin, R. Herbach and P. Rosenthal, and “Diodorus Siculus specifically describes the use of the screw in mines” (Craddock). Sparta didn’t engage in large-scale mining, unlike Athens for example.

–Servants, Serfs and Slaves could be Crane, Triple Pulley and Compound Pulley, but not for Sparta: the names used right now are not that exclusive of quarrying. “Because most quarries were open pits, prospecting, ventilation, and lighting presented fewer difficulties than in mining, and even drainage was easier to deal with” (Greek and Roman Technology, by A.N. Sherwood). “There is no evidence for the use of cranes or hoists in architecture before the late sixth century B.C., and until then heavy blocks must have been raised by pulling them up earth ramps”, “before the invention of the compound pulley, early cranes must have used a rope passed over a simple pulley”, and “the invention of triple and compound pulleys (trispaston and polyspaston) was a major advance in the design and mechanics of cranes. This has been ascribed, probably erroneously, to Archimedes”. Also, “the earliest secure mention of the compound pulley appears in the pseudo-Aristotelian Mechanics 18 (ca. 270 B.C.)” (The Oxford Handbook of Engineering and Technology in the Classical World, by J.P. Oleson). Sparta probably didn’t use any of these.

–Iron Axe Heads, Stronger Axe and Sharper Axe Heads could be Improved Saw, Botany and Hand Plane, but the last one, maybe two, not for Sparta: I’ve read things like “the shape and dimensions of the saws were probably similar to today’s hand saws as early as the 6th c. BC”. Also, “between the third century B.C. and the first century A.D., Theophrastus, Cato, Varro, and Pliny the Elder wrote extensively about silviculture and the uses of various species of trees” (Oleson), and Theophrastus is called the father of botany. Finally, “most of the tools used for working wood were already known in the Bronze Age, and with the use of iron they took on the shapes that, for the most part, are still in use today. The plane, however, which requires a very sharp and durable blade, may have been invented and certainly only became common in the first century AC” (Sherwood), with some saying the Greeks invented it (I’m not sure if when part of the Roman Empire already). I’d remove at least the last one for Sparta. It’s been quite hard to find something relevant at the time of the game.

-Regarding the Temple, I’m rearranging techs a bit more thematically. Some won’t be new developments of the time (as I always try to do), but are important anyway.

–Sacrificial Ritual could be Amphictyony: which sacrificial ritual? (more later). Given that it reduces training time and removes metal cost, Amphictyonic leagues were religious-political associations that protected sanctuaries and became more powerful after the First Sacred War (before the start of the game, but other Amphictyonies would appear with the years), while they “have recorded their provisions for the upkeep of Sacred Roads (380-379 BC)” (Sherwood), facilitating religious processions.

–Olympic Pantheon (Healing Range) could be Dodekátheon (Olympic Pantheon): following proper nomenclature.

–Healing Range 2 could be Mystery Cults: it added another layer to the traditional polytheism.

–Sphagia (Healing Rate) could be Sfágia (Sphagia): following proper nomenclature.

–Hippocratic Oath could be Ierá (Hiera): since it’s Healing Rate 2, and “sacrifices performed specifically for divination—that is, sacrifices offered to obtain the gods’ counsel and approval regarding a decision to be made or an action to be undertaken (hiera and thysia). In contrast, the sphagia, which can in one sense be considered a divinatory sacrifice but in many other respects diverges radically from hiera and thysia (for example, the participants do not consume the flesh of the sacrifice and the internal organs are not burned on an altar)” (“Divinatory Sacrifice (Hiera) and Divine Approval in Xenophon’s Anabasis”, by N.E. Okur). In general, Hiera is done at the altar, Sphagia before battle.

–Living Conditions could be Physiotherapy: gives +1 HR to garrisons. It starts with Herodicus and Hippocrates. I’m specifying the Hippocratic Corpus a bit.

–Battlefield Medicine could be Physiology, maybe not for the Spartans: a regeneration bonus. It starts with Alcmaeon of Croton and Hippocrates, although maybe Spartans didn’t pay much attention to this.

 

Changes that have been already proposed: 

-Reduce Stable role: maybe Conscription could be removed, as I mentioned before.

-Reduce Arsenal role: maybe most techs could be removed. Rams and oxybeles are fine, since there was “Spartan use of battering rams at Plataea in 429 BC” (Greek and Roman Siege Machinery, 399 BC-AD 363, by D.B. Campbell), and regarding the non-torsion catapult, this “machinery most probably arrived in the Peloponnese along with the troops under Cissidas, sent by Dionysius I in 368 or 367 B.C.”, although it was not used much (Greek and Roman Artillery, Historical Development, by E.W. Mardsen).

-Reduce Market role: maybe Commercial Treaty could be removed.

-Separate religion and medicine, eventually: I’ve seen the argument that “health is multifaceted”, but if a morale system is added, priests should affect it, while health should be left for physicians. For Ancient Greece, both could either come from the Temple, or the Asclepieion could be added. Units like druids could take both roles, being herbalists, though not as efficiently as a Roman surgeon for example, which could be produced from an independent building (Tabernae Medicae maybe). These are the extremes, many civs would fall in the middle. Then, some techs could be priest “abilities” instead (like Sphagia and Hiera, doing other things).

 

Other changes that could be considered: 

-Scytale as civ. bonus: transposition cipher for communications, since 7th c. BC, for FOV increase.

-Regarding emblems: sources are quite a mess regarding shield emblems, from a 1:1 scale fly to an army of lambdas, to modern authors stating we have no evidence they used the lambda, to someone stating lots of stuff who knows based on what. In conclusion, we don’t know a lot. But I’d have chosen the Gorgon head for the maxed up Spartiate, seems to have more relevance on certain representations, as can be seen along many emblems in The Sanctuary of Artemis Orthia at Sparta, by R.M. Dawkins, shown below:

 

Then, some interesting random quotes from Treister’s book, which could eventually be useful:

-By the second quarter of the 4th century [BC], fortress towers often incorporated specially designed catapult chambers. 

-The cost of maintaining an army and even more so of a fleet, even in peacetime, was considerably higher than the expense.

-Introduction of the technique for casting life-size bronze statues.

-Monetary courts, developed with the growth in the employment of mercenaries, led to an increasing need for coins.

-Arms taken from enemies were usually dedicated to the gods. Only the Spartans considered it worthless to dedicate to the gods armour which had belonged to "cowards".

 

And on a final note, I really recommend searching for things on the sources I’ve mentioned, there’s plenty on them that I haven’t read, and they could still hold the key to many relevant things for the time period of the game (particularly Oleson’s and Sherwood’s books). Here is a sphagia scene, from the front of Campbell's Spartan Warrior 735-331 BC: