Scythian Wonder: Royal Kurgan

[nifa]

 

 

Hi all,

I finally want to share the results of a project I've been working on for some time and abandoned several times in between. So here it is, the royal kurgan, a burial mound for a wonder for the scythians. Two main difficulties: (1) somehow make look interesting, what in references is just a bare hill and make it look built by humans (2) let an organic building blend in with the surrounding topography.

Concerning (1): It might look too busy, there might be better options for prop placement, player color is difficult to add, maybe too many different/ not fitting stone colours, maybe add flora?

Concerning (2): The underground part consumes a lot of tris, but the gravel stones blend in nicely with the ground also on uneven terrain. I don't know if it goes deep enough though.

Further references:

Spoiler

 

 

Some CC0 models I used:

Spoiler

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/anta-grande-do-zambujeiro-5f328a5d7cdd4f96b9a4dcacb426348e

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/turas-station-51-dg080-003001-b328870bd87244be9a153be226e2e547

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/bnhustoft-leirvik-froyar-ff481a2c9e504d119d541f377b19417b

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/polovtsian-baba-fe8b7acd672f4f9cb2ab1ea7d7cf8bd3

the other steles I sculpted myself

 

Feel free to test from the zip I added and let me know. I also added 7 different steles and two stone heaps of different sizes:

 

This is how it would look without the reddish stones:

Spoiler

 

What is left to do: Choosing the final layout; maybe some colour adjustments; deleting all those hidden faces from the stones on the inside, tthen bake ao; checking on naming conventions, actor files and materials. Also the foundation is just prototype.

 

Edit: I played around with the colours a little bit, turns out that adding some warmth to the gravel base helps a lot, so the contrast between the grey and the reddish stones isn't that harsh. @wowgetoffyourcellphone do you think you could work from here? My skills with colours and picture editing are very limited.

 

 

862891456_kurgan0_28.1.zip

Edited 22 hours ago by nifa

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Honestly, something simpler looks great as well. Without all of the props on the hill. The base surrounded by stelae. 

 

[Genava55]

10 hours ago, nifa said:

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/polovtsian-baba-fe8b7acd672f4f9cb2ab1ea7d7cf8bd3

What do you think Polovtsian Baba means?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

2 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

What do you think Polovtsian Baba means?

Maybe stop being so pretentious 

[Genava55]

8 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Maybe stop being so pretentious 

Polovtsian is related to Polovtsy, it is how the early Russians called the Cumans. 

[Genava55]

 

[Genava55]

[Genava55]

28 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Maybe stop being so pretentious 

I am pretentious but I explained something in March 2023 and still you made the same mistake in October 2023:

And I know you saw the post I made in March 2023:

Edited 13 hours ago by Genava55

[nifa]

2 hours ago, Genava55 said:

What do you think Polovtsian Baba means?

As I said, I started this over a year ago, so when I took it back up, I might have forgotten details about earlier discussions. As far as what I remember, although these stone babas aren't necessarily scythians, the scythians had similar ones too, so I figured if there's not much artistic difference, we could use a HP model from later times.

Sculpting is a ton of work, so if there is an existing similar model, it's always welcome, even if it's not 100 % accurate. What about the other sitting baba, is it also historically wrong?

Anyway, I spent a lot of time to recreate the other steles you suggested here: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/20550-civ-scythians/?do=findComment&comment=561420 I'm open for references and historical advice

Edited 11 hours ago by nifa

[nifa]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Honestly, something simpler looks great as well. Without all of the props on the hill. The base surrounded by stelae. 

 

 

True. I was afraid it wouldn't look "wonderly" enough

Maybe in this case elevate the gravel base a bit?

[Genava55]

5 minutes ago, nifa said:

You are welcome to sculpt 100 % historically accurate babas/steles yourself.

If you can't take criticism, don't participate in a community project.

6 minutes ago, nifa said:

Sculpting is a ton of work, so if there is an existing similar model, it's always welcome, even if it's not 100 % accurate. What about the other sitting baba, is it also historically wrong?

Besides the two Cuman statues, yes I think the others are not anachronistic. 

[nifa]

6 minutes ago, Genava55 said:

If you can't take criticism, don't participate in a community project.

(I deleted what you are quoting before you commented.)

I added these two babas because of a misunderstanding and I'm not insisting on keeping them. I asked to add a stone baba here and I interpreted your answer here as an approval, I guess because I thought stone baba are just the female sitting ones, not the male standing ones (I guess because "baba" in slavic languages refers to a female person). So no reason for hard feelings.

So if you think they are ahistorical and others agree to get them out, no problem.

[Genava55]

34 minutes ago, nifa said:

(I deleted what you are quoting before you commented.)

I added these two babas because of a misunderstanding and I'm not insisting on keeping them. I asked to add a stone baba here and I interpreted your answer here as an approval, I guess because I thought stone baba are just the female sitting ones, not the male standing ones (I guess because "baba" in slavic languages refers to a female person). So no reason for hard feelings.

So if you think they are ahistorical and others agree to get them out, no problem.

The origin of the designation 'baba' for such stele is debated. Indeed it is related to the word for lady or old woman in Slavic languages, but it is also related to the Turkic word 'balbal' meaning ancestor. Turks called those statue 'balbal' : https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balbal and in Kazakh the word 'baba' means ancestor. 

The most probable is that Slavic people heard the word balbal from Turkic people, notably the Cumans. And since the Cumans mostly depicted women on their statues, an association has been made between the two. 

And finally the Russians called ALL those ancient statues 'baba' : https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Каменная_баба

This is why I couldn't tell if you were talking about the Scythian or the Cuman stele. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Genava55

[Genava55]

7 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

 

You can have a stele at the top, it seems to have been the case in a few kurgans.

It is also plausible that ceremonies were performed around the kurgans. Notably with drink distribution, animal sacrifices, rites, music etc.

If you are depicting the kurgan during a ceremony, it adds more opportunities for props. 

[Stan`]

Hey @nifa

This looks pretty nice. Great work. Maybe we could somehow reduce the polycount by baking some of the stones into a decal with a normal map?(looks like it's already a texture but I can't check right now)

Could save some tris by making the decorations transparent texture instead of little squares.

Might be nice to find a way to have a hint of player color as well.

 

 

[Stan`]

6 hours ago, Genava55 said:

6 hours ago, nifa said:

.

If you can't take criticism, don't participate in a community project.

Do you have a reference that would make a worthy addition to the wonder?

 

[Genava55]

11 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Do you have a reference that would make a worthy addition to the wonder?

The burial chamber was decorated and we can imagine they used similar decoration outside when they performed ceremony celebrating their ancestor:

 

[Classic-Burger]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

The burial chamber was decorated and we can imagine they used similar decoration outside when they performed ceremony celebrating their ancestor:

 

Show some decorating ideas, maybe @Obskiuras can help with some concepts.

[Genava55]

1 hour ago, Classic-Burger said:

Show some decorating ideas, maybe @Obskiuras can help with some concepts.

Herodotus (Histories, IV, 82) tells the account of a large Scythian cauldron (which could contain up to 600 Greek amphorae) built for the king Ariantas.